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Would you choose to be a God of dumb animals?

JessFR said:
Religions by themselves don't do anything. It's worshipers that commit crimes.

And many Christians are excellent people. I've met many great Christians.

Christians aren't evil, some Christians are evil and use religion to justify it.
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Moral cowards try to separate the henchmen/religious, from the don/god/religion, who sent the killers out.

All who support and praise a genocidal Christian god and tolerate his homophobic and misogynous religions are on evil's side.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Moral cowards try to separate the henchmen/religious, from the don/god/religion, who sent the killers out.

All who support and praise a genocidal Christian god and tolerate his homophobic and misogynous religions are on evil's side.

Regards
DL
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Except God is not exactly giving us very clear instructions of his wishes. Unless you wanna take the innate drive to do good provided by the human conscience and its desire not to see suffering as others as the closest to representing God's direct will.

Regardless, without more direct contact, you only have his worshipers to decide how best to represent him. And they most definitely can't agree on that.
 
JessFR said:
Except God is not exactly giving us very clear instructions of his wishes. Unless you wanna take the innate drive to do good provided by the human conscience and its desire not to see suffering as others as the closest to representing God's direct will.

Regardless, without more direct contact, you only have his worshipers to decide how best to represent him. And they most definitely can't agree on that.
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Christians and Muslims have for sure. Satanic and a prick that they adore.

Heterosexual males on top and worthy of being above all other women and gays.

Christians and Muslims need more god contact for fucking sure.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Adoring a genocidal god and his homophobic and misogynous religion, is a bar that Christians cannot get by.

Gnostic Christianity did and have raised that bar even further, when they used the term demiurge for Yahweh.

We have waited 2,000 years for the immoral dummies to catch up, instead of naming those like Yahweh, St. Hitler.

Regards
DL
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I don't know a lot about religion but i think judaism like christianism or islam is more duotheist than monotheist, since it admit that there is an other place than heaven, ruled by another entity, the enemy of "god", in my memories the demiurge isn't god or the devil, he's just the creator of time, of the illusion, gnostics don't takes side in a moralistic way, no?
 
MydriHaze said:
I don't know a lot about religion but i think judaism like christianism or islam is more duotheist than monotheist, since it admit that there is an other place than heaven, ruled by another entity, the enemy of "god", in my memories the demiurge isn't god or the devil, he's just the creator of time, of the illusion, gnostics don't takes side in a moralistic way, no?
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Arguments can be made that Christianity is polytheistic, but not because of hell or Satan.

The ruler of hell is just an angel, he can't do anything if God didn't allow it. Even with job Satan could only go as far as God permitted.

It is through free will that that evil happens (in the Christian religious sense not the moral humanist sense), God just permits it which is a whole moral issue in its own (in the humanist sense not the religious sense ;))

If you wanna argue about polytheism in Christianity (not so much Judaism and frankly I don't know enough about it and Islam to say too much), the trinity is probably a better question, assuming you aren't part of a non trinitarian denomination.
 
MydriHaze said:
I don't know a lot about religion but i think judaism like christianism or islam is more duotheist than monotheist, since it admit that there is an other place than heaven, ruled by another entity, the enemy of "god", in my memories the demiurge isn't god or the devil, he's just the creator of time, of the illusion, gnostics don't takes side in a moralistic way, no?
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We definitely do.

So do Christians.

As William Blake said, they read white while we read black, or vice versa.

Christians see a white god in spite of his genocidal, homophobic and misogynous black spots. Gnostic Christians see dark god with some white spots in the myth.

In moral terms, Gnostic Christians are in the moral high ground while Christians only have inquisitions.

Ask any Christian to debate the morality of his ideology and see how fast he runs away.

Regards
DL
 
JessFR said:
It is through free will that that evil happens (in the Christian religious sense not the moral humanist sense), God just permits it which is a whole moral issue in its own (in the humanist sense not the religious sense ;))
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Though the notion of "free-will" doesn't shows up in the christian world before St Thomas d'Aquin... Before i think this was this thing they used to call "destiny", but if you wan't my point of view, religion is adapting to society more than the otherway
 
Well I suppose it depends on your interpretation, and what is required for free will to actually be free will.

But I don't wanna get into an anti-calvinist rant :)
 
JessFR said:
Well I suppose it depends on your interpretation, and what is required for free will to actually be free will.

But I don't wanna get into an anti-calvinist rant :)
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If god hardens a heart, does that negate free will?

A god heart would be soft, yet Yahweh hardened Pharaoh's and made him sin. That is a sin on Yahweh's part.

Right?

If Yahweh killed or murdered the innocent first born in their sleep as scriptures say, did it negate their free will that would have been to live?

Yes it does, right?

Let's move to reality.

Yes we have a free will that is only limited by nature and physics.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
I speak on many things.

Name your pleasure or lack of an answer on a question.

I am here for you.

Regards
DL
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Na I'm just here to play the drinking game :)

And no, I'm really not interested in said answers. I already told you something among the lines of "live and let live", and you called me evil for that, and behaved like a little child. I'm really not interested in anything coming out of your noggin, sorrry :(

Now I feel obligated to chip in something after posting 3 times: Why would God choose to be God? That assumption is asinine.
 
MydriHaze said:
What's after death?
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Only the dead can answer that. No?

Why do you care?

If there is anything too long or eternal, you might remember that all Shangri-La stories end is boredom and mass suicide.

From what I have seen of the dead, the beginning is hard on the flesh and the spirits are not talking to us.

If there is another dimension for our conscious minds after death, it is a telepathic world.

If you can do it, that is your path to follow. Any knowledge of any supernatural realm, if the same, would also have to be telepathic.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
If god hardens a heart, does that negate free will?

A god heart would be soft, yet Yahweh hardened Pharaoh's and made him sin. That is a sin on Yahweh's part.

Right?

If Yahweh killed or murdered the innocent first born in their sleep as scriptures say, did it negate their free will that would have been to live?

Yes it does, right?

Let's move to reality.

Yes we have a free will that is only limited by nature and physics.

Regards
DL
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Well if you wanna go with physics, I don't believe free will exists. Everything is the consequence of everything that came before now.

As for the Pharaoh, well I'm sure the argument is he had already sinned. Just as when satan entered judas. Judas had ready been sinful by stealing, if you wanna believe my favorite verse, John 12:6
 
December Flower said:
Why would God choose to be God? That assumption is asinine.
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A god cannot choose to be a God, as you you probably define the word, in any meaningful way.

Gods are chosen. Other claimants are thought to be fools or worse.

It is asinine. Why did you ask the question?

Regards
DL
 
JessFR said:
Well if you wanna go with physics, I don't believe free will exists. Everything is the consequence of everything that came before now.

As for the Pharaoh, well I'm sure the argument is he had already sinned. Just as when satan entered judas. Judas had ready been sinful by stealing, if you wanna believe my favorite verse, John 12:6
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If you have no free will to answer or not, no point in my asking you anything, as I would be getting a censored reply.

It is bedtime anyway, so I will not reply tonight, but should you reply, introduce the real yourself and tell us why you sensor our friend JessFR by controlling his will.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
If you have no free will to answer or not, no point in my asking you anything, as I would be getting a censored reply.

It is bedtime anyway, so I will not reply tonight, but should you reply, introduce the real yourself and tell us why you sensor our friend JessFR by controlling his will.

Regards
DL
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JessFR ain't a 'he' (also I think you mean censor). But free will not existing doesn't mean it's not worth asking questions.

You will ask whatever you will ask, already determined by whom you are as a person and the circumstances at the time, and I will do the same when I reply.

Whatever you do or don't do being whatever you were always going to do or not do.

Free will not existing is not really any different from free will existing, it's just a question of if the future is preset or not, the subjective experience is identical.

From a religious Christian perspective I don't see it as especially different from a humanist scientific perspective. The future is defined, and we are just living our way towards it.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Only the dead can answer that. No?

Why do you care?
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Because i'm suicidal, i wanna know so bad but all i can say right know is that it's more likely a question of probablility, and that there is strong chances that there is nothing after.

Take the heaven or hell, or the purgatory, your life on a loop, whatever, it's just an altered reality, and there is so much alterned reality that the chance for me to end up in hel or in heaven are minimal, but still there.

Take the reincarnation, it's not really and altered reality, same reality, same game, new avatar, it could be any new living being on the planet. If it's the reincarnation and that i rebecame a human, i swear they gonna need to do the cesarean at 4 to drag me out of this...

Or : nil. Nothing. Le néant. Nada! Sounds better i found...

There's 33,333333333333% of chance that there's nothing after death, that suits me very well, so why care? :cool:
There's 33,333333333333% of chance that i end up in another avatar, so why care? Because i dont' want an even more fucked-up avatar... :rolleyes:
There's 33,333333333333% of chance that i end up in another fucked up reality, so why care? Because i don't want, even if the chance is inifinitesimal, to go to heeeeeeell!! :eek:

SO there's still 66.666666666666% and such chance that I WILL NOT have what i want when i'll die, so yeah it intrigates me a little...
 
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