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  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Would you choose to be a God of dumb animals?

Psycho_Logic said:
Assumptions:

->you prefer personal experience over "outside authority"
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Good stuff, sure. Bad stuff, not so much.

Psycho_Logic said:
->you are open to many levels of interpretations
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My esoteric ecumenist religion and character demands this of me for sure.

We are all about judging all things.

Psycho_Logic said:
->even if you don't agree with something personally you are aware that other people have different point of view, angle of seeing, and you respect the
them as long they are moral and live what they profess
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Kind of.

A problem here being that if a Christian walks the biblical talk he professes to believe, then he cannot be moral or ethical.

Psycho_Logic said:
->you haven't made up your mind what the ultimate truth is and probably are aware that you, as a human, will never get even close to ultimate truth
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First part true. Last part false.

My apotheosis put me on Jacobs ladder. It did not put me on the final rung, but I am closer to the top than the vast majority, be they believer or not.

Knowing the ultimate truth would probably be quite depressing.

Nice that both science and religions are all ending with gods of the gaps.

Secular has won the god wars .

Peace at last, peace at last.

Regards
DL
 
Psycho_Logic said:
->you see institionalised religions as power clans, not different from mafia families or governments backed up by military

-> are knowledgeable about history and how the religion we now call Christianity came to be dominant (how "heretics" were killed as they were seen as competition in first few centuries, and how Roman church used Jesus, and is still using it, for justifying Genghis Khan type of conquests)

-> difference between what is professed in gospels and how Christians truly act
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No argument here my friend, while recognizing the differences between the right and left of religions and politics.
Psycho_Logic said:
that Old Testament is not a wholly book but a historic account and that it was used by people that formalised Christianity so some theological (and cosmological) ground could be had

-> that Jesus isn't son or "part" of Yahweh
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If I am to speak of Jesus the son, I have to have Yahweh the father in the mix.

There is no real history in the bible, not even in the O.T.

Ask any Jew or member of the intelligentsia.

You are correct that Christianity via the bible is a made up consolidation of other groups works. It is all plagiarized.

Perhaps that is why they idol worship a genocidal god. They cannot believe in a good god.

There is more than one Jesus in the bible.

I like the esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Jesus. He has decent morals.

Christians can have the Roman genocidal Jesus, with his Armageddon, and put him back into the anal orifice he came out of.

Regards
DL
 
It is very interesting how many "regular Christians" told me that they do not "like" Old Testament and that "I should stick to 4 gospels". It always blew my mind. But then, such inconsistencies can only be overlooked not resolved. It blows mi mind...almost like the war that is being waged on the same territory that wars described in Old Testament were waged. Is/was Yahweh so powerless that he can't win the war in what we now call Middle East? He should be omnipotent, omniscient omnipresent, unmatched in every aspect, yet tribal wars that were described in Old Testament are raging as we speak. I can not understand how somebody can swallow that whole story unchecked. I agree that he is described as genocidal, lying, impotent maniac that had very weird wishes and short sightedness. Now I revealed my take on Christianity. Closer to Muslim religion than Buddhism, with warlords being their most highest ideal for god or gods prophet.
 
Psycho_Logic said:
I can not understand how somebody can swallow that whole story unchecked.
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You reached the proper moral position.

As to this quoted bit.

They are not that stupid, generally speaking. More like they are all lying for the sake of their selfish gene that demands that they be tribal and badly in need of fellowship.

We are the most insecure animal on the planet. That trait comes out in the weird right and left wing extremist tribes that we form to appease our fears of a lack of fellowship.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
They are not that stupid, generally speaking. More like they are all lying for the sake of their selfish gene that demands that they be tribal and badly in need of fellowship.
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I live in a country that calls itself "Catholic country". We even have written contracts with Vatican and are giving lots of money to Catholic Church (even though we are the poorest country in EU) and have Christian "indoctrination" in elementary school as one of the optional classes, and if your child doesn't attend he us looked very unfavourably upon by other parents. Christian cross is main ornament here, around the neck and in some visible place in the car. My mother tried to convince me to be a good boy and become a Christian since ages 10-20, with numerous priests coming into my house to talk with me. Every visit came to a very abrupt halt because I asked some "inconvenient" questions. Nothing special, mostly regular things, like "Why God/Elohim is referred in plural?", "Why would God be afraid of men and expel him from Eden?", "Why God didn't know where Adam was?", "If all is according to Gods plan, than why would Adam be condemned for doing what God has planned?", "If everything is already planned by God where is the free will?", "Why would God plan sins in Sodoma and Gomora and genocide that followed?"...and when I brought Churches wealth, power, inquisitions, crusades, only unchanged gospels that we know of (Nag Hammadi library)...it all went south for the priests and they left pretty fast. Usually saying "Jesus still hasn't revealed to you and I will pray for you.", but it was always said in a very defensive and prerogative way.

Why am I writing all this? Well, the selfish gene in me should have activated, as 95% of people in my country call themselves Chatolics, and with all added pressure by my family - why it did not is beyond me. I have some personality traits that are almost commanding me to tell the truth how I see it. I got in lots of trouble and was punished for it from an very early age. Both from my peer group, my family and schooling system. I have an IQ (had to have it measured because something was obviously "wrong with me" as I was not complying with my societies norm and was underperforming in school) that is "above" 98% percent of other people (above 130), but at the same time I will say or not obey if I think it is "immoral/not intelligent" to do what I am asked. I suffered personal loss because of that but I am not changing my modus operandi even now, when I am 40 years old. I just can't. If I would disrespect my moral code I would go insane pretty fast. I consider "Christ consciousness/ Buddha nature/ Krishna nature/ "choose your naming", exactly that - the "impuls" in us that is opposing selfish gene and is looking at the biggest picture possible, for oneself, family, humanity and life itself.

This is not the "song to my virtuosity", but an attempt to explain myself to myself. It is a mystery to me why am I almost compelled to think and act in this way when "going along" would bring much more outward peace and material prosperity to myself. I almost feel like a virus in a very corrupt, but well established program. I will stop now as I feel that I am glorifying myself. Maybe I'm just stupid and actually don't get the bigger picture. It is always "the great who knows" for me...

Peace.

Edit: I think I came out as holier than thou in my description and nothing could be further from the truth. I made and am making lots of mistakes. I occasionally do thing that are not in alignment with my moral code and do occasionally go insane. This is all based on how I perceive reality and morality and I allow that I am way off, crazy, even evil just don't see that. With that said I am clicking Save.
 
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Man is made in God's image, it stands to reason that God therefore is like man.

If you were God, would you wanna be alone? Wouldn't you wanna create beings you could interact with, that were truly sapient like you and could make choices?
 
JessFR said:
Man is made in God's image, it stands to reason that God therefore is like man.
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When you say this , do you invoke God in it's "omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient" image? And is God also evil? Is God also limited?

JessFR said:
If you were God, would you wanna be alone? Wouldn't you wanna create beings you could interact with, that were truly sapient like you and could make choices?
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I don't know. But are we talking about Christian view of God that is punishing it's creation to eternal hell and torture? I , as a limited human being wouldn't create such conditions for my dog. So that interpretation of God is not very useful way of looking at the highest thing that even human can imagine.
 
Psycho_Logic said:
When you say this , do you invoke God in it's "omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient" image? And is God also evil? Is God also limited?
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Perhaps he's all of the above. Perhaps God can choose not to know things.
I mean God can't know everything and people also have free will, if God knew the future, that would mean the future is set.
But if God chose not to know the future, there's no contradiction.


Psycho_Logic said:
I don't know. But are we talking about Christian view of God that is punishing it's creation to eternal hell and torture? I , as a limited human being wouldn't create such conditions for my dog. So that interpretation of God is not very useful way of looking at the highest thing that even human can imagine.
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You might not, but some people would.
Guess it depends how much you go into biblical literalism. And perhaps to an extent, how you see the trinity, if indeed you see it at all.

I'm speaking in fairly abstract terms here. Since my belief in a God is already pretty abstract, and my theological opinions largely academic and intellectual exercises than my literal beliefs.

The biblical view is fraught with problematic accounts. Noah, Abraham, Job. Among others that bring into question what it means for God to be "good". Granted these are all old testament stories. But that gets back into questions of Jesus Godhood, the trinity, the new covenant.
 
My view of the God/Ultimate reality/Source/"put your word" is mostly impersonal. Like The Thao. I can only know what God is not. I already said that if I am in a more dramatic mood than I would take more "Hindu" view (with trinity Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva as knowable, like positive, neutral and negative charge, and Krishna/"pick your word for unnamable" as "the source"). It is very possible that I don't understand the trinity. I have pondered about it and came to conclusions that to have one you have to have three. Three is the first self referencing dual system, and we all speak in dualistic terminology. Triangle is the first shape, with one point/angle chosen to be a reference point for the "judgement" of other two. I am also very vague. I simply don't know. If I am pushed to say something positive I will give my view but I am giving my view in terms and conditions of the language and symbols I am representing what I see as an unfathomable and unspeakable "no-thing that I try to define in some-thing". Also English is not my mother tongue so I come out very crude. In the end, I know in terms of what it isn't and in the end I don't know.
 
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Maybe "god" placed the bar to high with humans. We.ll do better after the next mass extinction when we.ll all be neo.ants......
 
God expects too much of his children.

Man fell in his eyes, many of the angels fell in his eyes.

Maybe the problems not us...
 
Psycho_Logic said:
This is all based on how I perceive reality and morality
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You have done better than the genocidal god lovers.

Many who still label themselves as Christian have decided that morals are above our man made gods and that the genocidal one should not be honored.

Those lost Christians actually become Gnostic Christians but do not know it.

It is all about free thinking.

Regards
DL
 
JessFR said:
Man is made in God's image, it stands to reason that God therefore is like man.

If you were God, would you wanna be alone? Wouldn't you wanna create beings you could interact with, that were truly sapient like you and could make choices?
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If I was as you describe, and your bible was completely wrong where it says we have no free choice, then who is this peer of ours who wants to lead us without showing himself?

Who is this judge who se first judgement had him demanding a barbaric human sacrifice?

Id that judge that breaks his own laws worthy of us?

Regards
DL
 
MydriHaze said:
Maybe "god" placed the bar to high with humans. We.ll do better after the next mass extinction when we.ll all be neo.ants......
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Adoring a genocidal god and his homophobic and misogynous religion, is a bar that Christians cannot get by.

Gnostic Christianity did and have raised that bar even further, when they used the term demiurge for Yahweh.

We have waited 2,000 years for the immoral dummies to catch up, instead of naming those like Yahweh, St. Hitler.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
If I was as you describe, and your bible was completely wrong where it says we have no free choice, then who is this peer of ours who wants to lead us without showing himself?

Who is this judge who se first judgement had him demanding a barbaric human sacrifice?

Id that judge that breaks his own laws worthy of us?

Regards
DL
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You haven't been reading my other posts have ya. :D

God makes the law, it's not breaking them when he does it, and it's automatically good because he did it.

God could have a random worshiper tortured just to see how much it'd take for him to break and stop worshiping him, and people would still call God good. I mean, that's exactly what he did to Job.

I don't actually hate Christians or anything, I just think that even if you take the Bible as truth, that still doesn't really answer if God is worthy of our worship. An innumerable number of angels apparently didn't think so.
 
JessFR said:
I don't actually hate Christians or anything
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A shame.

We should all hate evil.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL
 
Religions by themselves don't do anything. It's worshipers that commit crimes.

And many Christians are excellent people. I've met many great Christians.

Christians aren't evil, some Christians are evil and use religion to justify it.
 
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