Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Totally agree. I suppose the more power is spread out, the checks and balances works better. Thus why I'm a "states rights" kinda person vs....i dunno...you define the other side who would see it differently.
2017 Trump Presidency Thread
- Thread starter Escher's Waterfall
- Start date
- Status
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
You know what's an interesting thing to learn about? The very early history of United States. Reading the whole constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the historical context that they stem from. You quickly realize that the way the country is now, and how we think about it, is not at all what was intended. A lot of the oddities and seemingly bad choices in how the system works make so much more sense when you understand the original thinking behind them.
Personally I'd like to see us return closer to the original idea. This country wasn't supposed to be a country in the modern way we define it now. So much of how the USA works now is trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Trying to make it work as a type of country it was never designed to be.
Personally I'd like to see us return closer to the original idea. This country wasn't supposed to be a country in the modern way we define it now. So much of how the USA works now is trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Trying to make it work as a type of country it was never designed to be.
of course. your position is obviously perfectly valid. i think, as is very often the case, it's just a discussion over where the line is drawn.
remind me which state you live in?
alasdair
Fresco
Bluelighter
Everyone has a bit of hypocrisy in them, alaisdair. I do too.it just demonstrates the depths of his hypocrisy.
he criticised obama relentlessly for taking vacation and 'wasting' taxpayer money doing so.
he's taken more vacation and spend significantly more taxpayer money as a result.
he criticised obama for using executive orders, at one point suggesting that obama's use of eos was 'unconstitutional'.
trump hqas already signed 45 executive orders and is on track to sign twice as many as obama.
etc.
etc.
etc.
alasdair
At the end of the day everyone sticks to their own tribes and loves criticizing the other tribes.
I could point out lots of hypocrisy in Obama as well btw
Fresco
Bluelighter
This might surprise you guys, but I voted for him. I might come across as right-wing, but I'm actually a swing voter and tend to vote for the candidate if I think he/she is best.How are you liking Trudeau? Aside from his hotness?
Aside form that retarded $10 million payout to a terrorist I think he's doing OK.
So long as the economy churns along I'm happy with him.
(He also legalized marijuana btw. Even though I dont smoke it, I think its a good start)
sure. i agree. "a bit". but i'm not the president.
this isn't a bit of hypocrisy - it's frequent, blatant hypocrisy.
i put myself in the shoes of a trump voter. i'm hungry for change. these washington insider swamp-dwellers. it's outrageous that they take frequent vacations and waste millions of my tax dollars on travel and security for these trips. something has to change!
wait! this trump guy just relentlessly slammed obama for vacations and even said "Don't take vacations. What's the point? If you're not enjoying your work, you're in the wrong job." well, i'm voting for him. it'll be nice to see somebody behave differently for a change.
fast forward to today - he's taken 3 times as much vacation as obama and, just 10 months into his term, on personal travel he's spent a third of what obama spent in 8 years.
if you think that's not a problem, i respect that. i think you're just ignoring facts but that's up to you.
but let's not try to equate the two because it's not even close.
sure. but this is the trump thread and if your answer is "btu obama is a hypocrite too", then you're basically just agreeing with me.
alasdair
Fresco
Bluelighter
Tell you what, at the end of the day its up to all of us individuals to create our own happiness, and not up to Presidents.
I think this is the reason why politicians get so much hate, everyone expects the government to provide for their own riches, comfort, health and happiness. And when that doesnt happen (which it inevitably never does) they blame the man in charge.
My advice is create your own paradise, and stop expecting others to do it for you.
That goes for me, as well as for you, or anyone else
Scrofula
Bluelight Crew
Last I saw we were still states under a federal government with three branches. How are we different? Women and non-property owners can vote? Black people cannot be held in bondage, a concern for some here?
We still don't have an individual right to vote for president. That rests with the states.
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
You've misunderstood entirely what I was getting at. I understand, I did leave what I said ambiguous.
Im talking about how people think of it. People think of the US as a country like say, England. Which is not how it's supposed to work. And people (president included) see the president as a maker of law, which isn't supposed to be his role.
The way people think of the United States and the federal government and especially the president is VERY different to how the founders intended it. What I'm saying has nothing to do with how the system operates. It has to do with how it was intended to operate vs how we try to make it operate. Its supposed to be a union of sovereign states. It's citizens being citizens of their state, with the federal government representing the states. In practice we think of it more in terms of being citizens of the US first, and the state government secondary to that.
We don't vote directly for the president because we're supposed to be thinking more about our state government.
See 10th amendment.
Im talking about how people think of it. People think of the US as a country like say, England. Which is not how it's supposed to work. And people (president included) see the president as a maker of law, which isn't supposed to be his role.
The way people think of the United States and the federal government and especially the president is VERY different to how the founders intended it. What I'm saying has nothing to do with how the system operates. It has to do with how it was intended to operate vs how we try to make it operate. Its supposed to be a union of sovereign states. It's citizens being citizens of their state, with the federal government representing the states. In practice we think of it more in terms of being citizens of the US first, and the state government secondary to that.
We don't vote directly for the president because we're supposed to be thinking more about our state government.
See 10th amendment.
Scrofula
Bluelight Crew
As the Ogallala aquifer dries up completely, and the seasons get longer for farming north of the Dakotas, all that will remain on the plains west of the Mississippi will be the wildest of Red State Americans, staring at the sun and waiting for the rapture, firing their ARs at shadows, filling mason jars with the latest aspartame-free prepper foods. They dismantle what's left of the bankrupt Kansas government and erect a biblical kingdom, with Huckabee Jr, Dog-Strangler, as first monarch.
It'll all be unconstitutional, but by then with State's Rights in favor and a new interpretation of the tenth amendment, it'll be left alone to war with Oklahoma and West Texas tribes in the great American Waziristan, The Tea Party Autonomous zone. Unfortunately, savings by eliminating disaster relief are offset by increased border patrol after numerous incursions into midwest states in search of meth and scrap metal. Chief export of the TPA is nitrogen, scavenged from the remains of overfertilized fields too dry and salty to farm, and manure from thousands of hog farms made barren without water and impossible to raise without effective antibiotics.
Rumors abound that the original Plains Tribes reclaim the land and the buffalo return.
It'll all be unconstitutional, but by then with State's Rights in favor and a new interpretation of the tenth amendment, it'll be left alone to war with Oklahoma and West Texas tribes in the great American Waziristan, The Tea Party Autonomous zone. Unfortunately, savings by eliminating disaster relief are offset by increased border patrol after numerous incursions into midwest states in search of meth and scrap metal. Chief export of the TPA is nitrogen, scavenged from the remains of overfertilized fields too dry and salty to farm, and manure from thousands of hog farms made barren without water and impossible to raise without effective antibiotics.
Rumors abound that the original Plains Tribes reclaim the land and the buffalo return.
cj
Bluelight Crew
Trump killed the ACA today by stopping federal payments to insurance companies which subsidize low income peoples insurance. There are going to be huge huge rate increases and many companies leaving the market place. All because Trump is a spiteful little manchild.
cj
Bluelight Crew
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Trump helped the marketplace in healthcare, allowing my employer to buy insurance in a group with others across state lines. It sounds good to me.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
You guys can try making a point without cursing your opponent, right? Or cursing those who don't automatically see doom? The ability to make a point without explicitness, come on now....these are life skills you need.
I'm not cursing you, but it is a bit emotive to call trump a creep, you're right.
It's no excuse, but he brings out the worst in some people, and i don't just mean his opponents.
Calling him a pimp wasn't an insult though. That's just a word to describe people involved in owning brothels and other types of sexual exploitation.
Now, in the interests of reasonable debate, i tried to back up this claim that trump's a brothel owner, but i only found this (How Donald Trump’s fortune is built on money from prostitutes and brothels) and this (China approves Donald Trump-branded spas, escort services, hotels and massage parlours without US Congress permission) - neither of which prove or disprove my claim that trump runs brothels, so i'll just stick to what they do tell us.
Among other things, those articles just indicate that trump's claims to have disengaged from his business interests was a total lie - and he may not be a pimp, but he inherited a fortune that grew from his paternal grandfather's wealth earned from pimping and brothel-owning.
No matter what the source of trump's money, he's a billionaire sabotaging affordable healthcare. Can you see why i think that's dispicable?
People rely on that system to afford medical treatment, and trump's getting rid of it solely out of spite.
He also claimed in the election that "everyone" would be covered under his uh, "trumpcare" plan
That's one outcome that might pan out ok - for you - if it works as has been suggested.
This article outlines some of the other things that this executive order may cause.
Bear in mind that trump is determined to sabotage "Obamacare" as a matter of pride, without having a better plan - or any plan that has seen light of day - and so far, this is the best he has been able to achieve.
He knows that the only way his administratiom will be able to get any of his severe healthcare bills through congress, is after they've rendered the the current system completely unworkable and dysfunctional.
So, to get a piece of legislation through, he's prepared to gamble with the health - and the lives (literally) of his own countrymen. You know - the ones that pays his salary and supplies his security detail and travel, amongst other things.
It's an outrageous act of political malice, and trump's created such a polarised atmosphere that people are getting desensitised to his undignified behaviour. Compared to a lot of the things he says, this doesn't seem particularly offensive, but it's among the dirtiest acts he's pulled so far.
If you want to talk about life skills, i would suggest that having a sincere debate without being sarcastic or patronising is important too
If you want to support trump, that's entirely up to you - but i don't think it's correct to call trump critics doom merchants, just for criticising the guy.
It's no excuse, but he brings out the worst in some people, and i don't just mean his opponents.
Calling him a pimp wasn't an insult though. That's just a word to describe people involved in owning brothels and other types of sexual exploitation.
Now, in the interests of reasonable debate, i tried to back up this claim that trump's a brothel owner, but i only found this (How Donald Trump’s fortune is built on money from prostitutes and brothels) and this (China approves Donald Trump-branded spas, escort services, hotels and massage parlours without US Congress permission) - neither of which prove or disprove my claim that trump runs brothels, so i'll just stick to what they do tell us.
Among other things, those articles just indicate that trump's claims to have disengaged from his business interests was a total lie - and he may not be a pimp, but he inherited a fortune that grew from his paternal grandfather's wealth earned from pimping and brothel-owning.
No matter what the source of trump's money, he's a billionaire sabotaging affordable healthcare. Can you see why i think that's dispicable?
People rely on that system to afford medical treatment, and trump's getting rid of it solely out of spite.
He also claimed in the election that "everyone" would be covered under his uh, "trumpcare" plan
That's one outcome that might pan out ok - for you - if it works as has been suggested.
This article outlines some of the other things that this executive order may cause.
Bear in mind that trump is determined to sabotage "Obamacare" as a matter of pride, without having a better plan - or any plan that has seen light of day - and so far, this is the best he has been able to achieve.
He knows that the only way his administratiom will be able to get any of his severe healthcare bills through congress, is after they've rendered the the current system completely unworkable and dysfunctional.
So, to get a piece of legislation through, he's prepared to gamble with the health - and the lives (literally) of his own countrymen. You know - the ones that pays his salary and supplies his security detail and travel, amongst other things.
It's an outrageous act of political malice, and trump's created such a polarised atmosphere that people are getting desensitised to his undignified behaviour. Compared to a lot of the things he says, this doesn't seem particularly offensive, but it's among the dirtiest acts he's pulled so far.
If you want to talk about life skills, i would suggest that having a sincere debate without being sarcastic or patronising is important too
If you want to support trump, that's entirely up to you - but i don't think it's correct to call trump critics doom merchants, just for criticising the guy.
Last edited:
of course that is true. but we don't live in a vacuum and actions have consequences.
that's a rather lazy generalization and i also think it's demonstrably false. i don't expect the government to provide me with 'riches'. that is absurd.
but i do believe that, along with an increasing number of americans, that the health of its citizens is fundamental and that america trails the world in this area. it's time for socialized medicine.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
we already "provide for the common defence" and nobody complains that we're pushing socialism in america! so why do people shit their pants when we talk about taking care of "promote the general Welfare" in exactly the same way?
sadly, i think there's a fundamental difference between people on different sides of the political spectrum. a lot of people really only care about themselves and what a politician or policy is going to do for them. as long as i benefit, why should i give a shit what happens to others, right?
alasdair
Scrofula
Bluelight Crew
In this case, as I lose my health insurance for pointless political bullshit, yes, I'll curse him and all the . . . folks who support him. Your only comfort will be I'll be blind from the diabetes, making it harder to find you.
the state in which you live depends on the federal government for ~30% of its state budget. can we have it back please?
that said, your state is one of the less dependent when it comes to federal money (source: wallethub)
somewhat ironically (hypocritically?) red states (states that typically vote republican) receive far more federal dollars per capita than blue states (states that typically vote democrat), even though republicans tend to strongly advocate for a smaller federal government and cuts to entitlement programs...
alasdair
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
I enjoyed my healthcare access at a price I could afford back in the 2000-2011 period of time I was in the market. Now I am working almost 10% of any given moment to afford my lousy expensive insurance. Excuse my for longing for the old days before 'obama care' made health care so affordable.
- Status