2017 Trump Presidency Thread

[JessFR]

His victory was fueled/backed by anger over the politically correct era that perpetuated under Obama; for that I can't blame people, for their reaction and subsequent voting, I do.

I dunno, there are many a great things to be patriotic about obviously. Our country's history has always fascinated me, and as a student of world history, I am most interested in what transpired here, and not abroad. It's just, like you said, Obama and the Dems worked so hard to reverse what W. did to this country, and now it's even worse. A book I read back in college went over this, God if that writer even knew what was coming... The American populous sat by and smiled as they signed their rights away under the Patriot Act, and still no one in our government sees fit to stand up and say "This is wrong, we are ruining what it is to be American." So maybe Obama and the Dems really didn't try at all.

I think that our country's potential reached it's peak during the Cold War years and everything since has been a shit show; perhaps it was the true threat of war with a country that could match our military might and vigor that brought Americans together enough to not hate each other as much as we now do. It's like the country I was born into was more concerned with who was sleeping with who than what's happening in the average American's life. I remember where I was on 9/11 very vividly, though at the time I didn't understand it. Now I'm convinced that the American people sat by and cheered as we permitted our own government to kill over 2000 American citizens, all so they could assume control over the populous.

I know that to a degree, our country still hasn't reached that 1984-esque point of thought conformity that places like China and Russia have. Heck, here I am professing that our government is evil and killing its own citizens, and my door is currently still standing and not kicked in; yet I truly fear that the day may come, much sooner than later, that Americans will sit by and watch as our doors indeed are kicked in for such reasons. Hell, they're already kicked in for some forms of thought crime (drug use), where will it end? The Dems are as much to blame for this too, don't think for a second I truly fall into party lines. They did nothing to protect our liberties either. Simply saying that Trump is the devil and shit doesn't mean you wouldn't push your own hellish agenda if you had the chance...

I understand what it's like to cross borders and have assumptions made about you, though my experience is simply crossing my state's vast border and having people act like I ride a horse to work and don't have electricity and the like. I don't think that's any reason for me to deny the crimes and evils of my state though, and all I try to do is to show that not quite all of us from this shit hole are uneducated and backwards; in fact, some of us are doing what we can to fight this. None the less, it makes it difficult for me to be proud of my home. If I had the chance, I'd move elsewhere. Not far... but elsewhere.

It be curious to see what would happen if you did. You don't always realize what you have till it's gone. It's easy to forget all the things you loved about home till you leave it. Though for me im only talking about the metaphor, I've never regretted leaving my literal home and now that I'm back for the moment for cause of my drug problems I'm already certain it's only a matter of time till I run off again.

But I digress. My point is, you don't know about the problems of other countries till you live there. So it's easy to see the problems at home and not know about the problems elsewhere and so not realize how you might miss it if you leave.

Just a thought. I don't believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theory. I share the same distrust of government and a lot of the same kind of sentiments, it's just for different reasons. Provided you don't try and convice me it a conspiracy though I happy to accept that you believe it is.

We still both hate and distrust the government so I see little point arguing about the why.

I remember where I was on 9/11 too of course. As I assume you were too, I was pretty young at the time. But it was still clear as day that something very bad was going on. Something unlike my generation had ever yet experienced. Not something you forget.

I'm not blind to all the mistakes and horrible things the government has done. It's hardly new. I often say that spitting on the constitution is a presidential tradition. That every president since John Adam's signed the sedition act has found their own way to violate it.

It's depressing that we couldn't even make it more than 1 president before fucking up.

In truth, I'm probably being unfair. Australians and Americans are a lot alike, it's just the different environments create different expressions of the same problems. Americans on the whole don't pay much attention to the affairs of other countries. But every other country pays attention to our affairs. I frequently see Australians and others say shit that they would be outraged to hear said by an American about then. They think it's OK. That it's innately different and that they understand American culture better than they really do because of all the American TV they watch.

Which is something else I find amusing. Australians treat bashing America like a national past time but they can't get enough American media, while simultaneously the complaining that its drowning their own culture.

But all those things that irritate me. We do it all too we just have our own way of doing it. Same phenomenon expressed differently due to different environment.

Although it's hard for me to say not having lived in any countries beyond the US and Australia, I do strongly suspect that Australians are particularly hostile. I've often thought about why and I think it's because they are much smaller than say, the UK. They feel like they aren't on equal footing. So while the UK and Australia both have fought with and aided the US, I think it pisses off Australians a lot more because they experience more feelings of being controlled by it. It's also that it is highly self reenforced. If you're an Australian you can't be prous without being socially ostracized. Even if you did believe it you wouldn't wanna say it.

Which it's not entirely unjustified, I think they take the way too extreme. And I think its because of all the social reenforcement. If everyone believes it it's in your instincts to want to confirm and seem as committed as possible. So you try and out do others. Yeah you hate America but I hate them even more. Yeah you're outraged by that rapist but I wanna see them executed! Oh you wanna see them executed? Well I care more than that I wanna see them tortured then executed!

You see it all the time. Americans do it too, it's universally human but obviously in my position it's gonna irritate me more and make me feel resentful of Australians. I shouldn't though, not really. They're great people all in all. It's just sometimes hard to remember that.

Same is true with Americans, of humans generally really. I honestly think most people are good. Just flawed and confused. Many people do bad things but I think truly bad people are quite rare.

I used to beg for money for drugs and that really opened my eyes to how many honest and generous people there are. I've tried not to forget it because it's so easy to wanna give up on people.

 

[swilow]

Hey Jesse. I'm sure you've mentioned this but how long have you lived in Australia?

 

[JessFR]

Long time now. Moved with my family when I was in my teens, which at 29 now puts it at over a decade. It's hard to believe how fast time flies. It's hard enough for me to believe I've only got a little under a year till I'm 30. I didn't think I'd live this long.

Truth is I'm actually a duel citizen. Legally I am Australian. But it's kinda hard to see it that way. Never lost my accent so everyone still assumes I'm just American. And well, honestly. I don't feel Australian. That first decade or so of life really sticks with you.

Which is why I find it so abhorrent this idea I've mentioned in other threads about people who have lived in the US their whole life but technically aren't citizens and the threats of deporting them. If they spent their childhood in the US then undoubtedly they are culturally American. No matter what the law says, they are as American as anyone else and deporting them is wrong. Not to mention they'd be as alien and foreign in their supposed home country as any other American. I find it reprehensible.

I believe you are the culture you were raised in and that no amount of legal technicalities or living else where after can change that.

I've seen other versions of it too. People who aren't legally Australian but grew up here as children. And no matter what the law says they are clearly Australian. They talk like Australians they think lkke Australians they feel Australian. Pieces of paper don't change that. Likewise, I might be a dual citizen but I just don't feel Australian. I highly doubt I would even if Australians accepted me as one.

 

[tathra]

Well when you believe you're always right, you can change your mind and say the opposite of what you used to believe and still be right. Both then and now. Amazing isn't it.

hey now, always being right isnt as easy as you think. you gotta keep issuing corrections on a regular basis as things change. change is the only constant in the universe, so corrections have to be issued all the time.

Same is true with Americans, of humans generally really. I honestly think most people are good. Just flawed and confused. Many people do bad things but I think truly bad people are quite rare.

generally, individuals are good, groups are bad, being worse the larger the group is. its fine that aussies talk shit about america; americans talk shit about america too. its a once-great country that could and should be doing far better than it is; we protest and talk shit about our country because we're sorely disappointed and expect better from it, the so-called "greatest country in the world" thats left so many people to starve; left so many people to freeze on the cold streets; sent so many off to die in stupid wars we shouldnt be involved it; said of countless summary executions that "they deserved it"'; repeatedly undermined the highest law of the land, the law by which every other law beneath it is granted authority; stolen our self-sovereignty and sold our rights and information off to the highest bidder. so much has gone wrong, with little any of us could do to realistically change any of it for the better. all we can do is watch it burn, and stand ready to rebuild from the ashes.

 

[JessFR]

Your country, your culture, it's often a very similar dynamic to your family. I might mock and make fun of my bother mercilessly but I'll get real pissed if someone else does it.

Likewise, it's OK when Americans bitches about America. But when others do it, at least if in your situation you pretty much are the only representation of Americans there. Suddenly it gets a lot more irritating. Apart from how it's hard not to feel like they're talking about you personally, which you generally won't feel when it's someone else of the same group doing it. It's also hard not to feel like they don't really know what they're talking about like you do. Whereas others of your group have earned the right to be critical.

Much like n word privileges.

 

[swilow]

Hey guys, I have closed this thread and started a new one for all of us to hate on Trump again.