Itsgoneundertheboa
Bluelighter
This debate has gone down an unproductive route. Just to differentiate what is being said;
The original question I had circa Sept 2015 was how do we know if MDMA is MDMA and could MDMA vary batch to batch even if it were tested by GC / MS. The better in the 90s has been flogged continuously and the result only returns to anecdotal experience.
My question was based on a considerable variance in CURRENT pill effects - having two different pills tested as MD but having a very differing experience on each.
An experience repeated and repeated and found the same. One pill being. Dutch 200+mg banger. One pill being reported "Manc crew". The one I found closer to the original effects aka Shulgin were the "Manc crew". The Dutch although considerably stronger on paper delivered a more Mongy high. I can still dance I can still socialise but not in the way of the Manc.
Reference to prior experience indeed was reflected on but honestly it is as andy777 says personal and anecdotal.
I considered dose so I reduced the dosage repeated and found both did not alter in the effects just the intensity. In fact if you read posts I went a lot further to test out dose theories.
Yes I did pills 88 - 96, briefly in 98 - 2002 then a big gap until circa 2012. Not because of tolerance but due to life. No I don't believe that all today's pills and powders are crap just the effects do seem to vary, yes I do agree set setting age etc but the fact remained that the pills seemed to vary more so than any period I've experienced prior when all the evidence suggested I had pure product as verified by GC/MS.
If I compare to prior experience (anecdotal absolutely agreed) the Dutch appears to be significantly a step further from my memories. BUT I certainly don't expect to gain that period back. Just the wish to not waste 2 months of serotonin on a meh experience. It's a search for the best chance to find MY preference.
What I presume is, as small town casual has said constantly, this is all about the money backed up by Biscuit and his very clear summary.
This view is reinforced within literature of then and today regarding the market and manufacture. Not simply from videos of blokes doing the super gurn although this is some of the only historic evidence of actual effects we now have.
What has been proven without any argument the quality of MD can and does vary even if the product is classed by CURRENT test methods as pure. Set and setting, dose, tolerance obviously have effect but ultimately there is variance in quality and GC / MS method is flawed and does not identify quality% just a quantity%.
We then set about trying to see if there was a way to self identify by reagent. That's where we are at?
My point - lots of views all very important and no one should be decried for posting their opinion or result. We can't hope for a scientific outcome as we don't have the equipment or access.
What's most important is that we carry on alerting to what are good bad and possibly dangerous. We are a community created by legislation. Let's keep it community value the opinion of others and realise, as biscuit keeps telling us, the only people who actually know are LE who have and will continue to fingerprint any seizure to identify the manufacturer.
Certainly I don't take one person report posted here as green light but I certainly appreciate them. Only when multiples shout that I would consider this to be the time for personal test. Until then I'm happy with the pipe and slippers.
thanks for all the fish Boa
The original question I had circa Sept 2015 was how do we know if MDMA is MDMA and could MDMA vary batch to batch even if it were tested by GC / MS. The better in the 90s has been flogged continuously and the result only returns to anecdotal experience.
My question was based on a considerable variance in CURRENT pill effects - having two different pills tested as MD but having a very differing experience on each.
An experience repeated and repeated and found the same. One pill being. Dutch 200+mg banger. One pill being reported "Manc crew". The one I found closer to the original effects aka Shulgin were the "Manc crew". The Dutch although considerably stronger on paper delivered a more Mongy high. I can still dance I can still socialise but not in the way of the Manc.
Reference to prior experience indeed was reflected on but honestly it is as andy777 says personal and anecdotal.
I considered dose so I reduced the dosage repeated and found both did not alter in the effects just the intensity. In fact if you read posts I went a lot further to test out dose theories.
Yes I did pills 88 - 96, briefly in 98 - 2002 then a big gap until circa 2012. Not because of tolerance but due to life. No I don't believe that all today's pills and powders are crap just the effects do seem to vary, yes I do agree set setting age etc but the fact remained that the pills seemed to vary more so than any period I've experienced prior when all the evidence suggested I had pure product as verified by GC/MS.
If I compare to prior experience (anecdotal absolutely agreed) the Dutch appears to be significantly a step further from my memories. BUT I certainly don't expect to gain that period back. Just the wish to not waste 2 months of serotonin on a meh experience. It's a search for the best chance to find MY preference.
What I presume is, as small town casual has said constantly, this is all about the money backed up by Biscuit and his very clear summary.
This view is reinforced within literature of then and today regarding the market and manufacture. Not simply from videos of blokes doing the super gurn although this is some of the only historic evidence of actual effects we now have.
What has been proven without any argument the quality of MD can and does vary even if the product is classed by CURRENT test methods as pure. Set and setting, dose, tolerance obviously have effect but ultimately there is variance in quality and GC / MS method is flawed and does not identify quality% just a quantity%.
We then set about trying to see if there was a way to self identify by reagent. That's where we are at?
My point - lots of views all very important and no one should be decried for posting their opinion or result. We can't hope for a scientific outcome as we don't have the equipment or access.
What's most important is that we carry on alerting to what are good bad and possibly dangerous. We are a community created by legislation. Let's keep it community value the opinion of others and realise, as biscuit keeps telling us, the only people who actually know are LE who have and will continue to fingerprint any seizure to identify the manufacturer.
Certainly I don't take one person report posted here as green light but I certainly appreciate them. Only when multiples shout that I would consider this to be the time for personal test. Until then I'm happy with the pipe and slippers.
thanks for all the fish Boa
but experience always knows best and we should have listened. Because now there is no doubt the older among us who have witnessed all these changes as time went by were right all along.