"I'm afraid you didn't get 15pts" - EADD Benefits Thread

[parttime crackhead]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought housing benefit was available to anyone, working or not, to enable people to have basic accomodation in the area - which is surely fair?

Is it? It must be at a vastly reduced rate (ei, nil) if you are working. I know people who are claiming benefits & will continue to do so for as long as they possibly can because they couldn't afford to live where they do if they went out & got a job.

They would genuinely be worse off if they worked. Something's not right there. Whether that means the minimum wage is too low or that they shouldn't be getting paid anywhere close to the benefits they are receiving, I'm not going to get into.

 

[Marmalade]

You don't really believe that do you? you're deluded if you do.

As far as I can see, it's insanely hard to be on benefits long term in a fraudulent manner, and get away with it. So I'm interested in your outlook.

What would you class as benefit fraud? How many people do you know who do this, and could you elaborate on how you feel they're achieving it?

I mean you no disrespect, because I can understand why someone who has a job, and works day in day out in order to just survive on a daily basis would feel aggrieved by someone who is claiming benefits they aren't entitled to and don't have to work for. It's legitimate for them to feel that way.

I feel the whole benefits system could do with a massive reworking in order to be more effective in what it's trying to achieve. I don't really think the current government (or the last) really understands how to do that .. but I digress.

In fact, if the government had any interest in being fair, they would bring back rent caps and build more social housing, which would ultimately save the public purse and stop landlords creaming ridiculous amounts of unearned money from the benefits system.

The fact that they don't do this says it all.

^^ This x 100. The current approach to housing is so unbelievably counter-productive to the whole system, it just puts the Government's (eh, I mean OUR) money in private Landlord's hands, and they're barely restricted at all in terms of rent increases. They're a business, and will look for year on year profit and nothing more

 

[parttime crackhead]

What would you class as benefit fraud? How many people do you know who do this, and could you elaborate on how you feel they're achieving it?

Claiming benefits you're not entitled to. Whether that is hamming up your anxiety, claiming you have a sore back or simply claiming JSA while making no attempt to get a job. I know dozens of people who do this. Go to any job centre during the week & meet them for yourself.

I should point out that I don't have a problem with these people. I'm all for free money. I just have a problem with the ones who aren't honest about it (to other people, obviously not to the DWP).

 

[TheSpade]

I have an aunty and uncle who have never worked a day in their life, they have no physical disabilities, and nothing seemingly wrong with them. No one in my family (not even my gran or my dad) know what's apparently wrong with them (because there's nothing wrong with them really) and it's assumed they are just at it, claiming shit like anxiety. It's worked for over 20 years now. I wondered how they afforded holidays and trips to London and all sorts, makes sense now if they are on £350 a week to sit about the house.

 

[Ismene]

I have an aunty and uncle who have never worked a day in their life, they have no physical disabilities, and nothing seemingly wrong with them.

Isn't this like the old "My grandad smoked 120 a day and lived till he was 97" tho spade? Everyone seems to knows someone who is allegedly getting away with £1400 a month benefits but every time I was ever on the dole I got £67 a week. So I dunno how my reality varies so enormously from everyone elses.

I'm not convinced it's that easy to get £1400 a month.

 

[spudgun]

People also seem to forget that, with the way the system is currently set up, there simply aren't enough jobs to go round.

We were turned into a 'service economy' in the eighties, which meant that millions were necessariily shifted onto benefits. This has been propped up by all subsequent governments in order to facilitate the activities of the 1%.

To suggest that people who are at the bottom of the pile, people who have little choice but to claim (some might have become institutionalised, not their fault) should suffer more, is kinda short sighted. Things are going to get very ugly for everyone very quickly.

 

[TheSpade]

They aren't on the dole Issy, they are signed off sick.

I'm not sure how easy it is to get £1400 a month but if they can afford holidays abroad, shopping trips to London, meals out, weekends away and being at the pub every second night on £70 a week then that's quite amazing.

 

[parttime crackhead]

My mate's mum is the same. She'll be at least 50. Never worked a day in her life either. Bad back. Fuck all wrong with her back. She's friends with my mum & even she says the same. My maw's never claimed the giro in her life but as far as I can see this woman has pretty much the same amount of money. Car, holidays, flat screen telly, 3 bedroom house lol.

My mum knows loads of folk like that. Tends to be anxiety for the younger folk ripping it, the more old school ones who've been at it for 40 years have the "bad back".

Edit - Ismene, I am talking about Incapacity Benefit (or whatever it's called now). Definitely not JSA/dole. I don't know the amounts they are claiming but most of them seem to be living fairly well lol.

This is mainly older people, with kids. The younger folk I know who are ripping it are mostly on JSA but not looking for work.

 

[TheSpade]

I don't hold it against people not wanting to work. I hate working, work is shite and no one 'wants' to do it, but I don't think it's fair on people to knock their cunt in week in week out on min wage to get less a month than someone sitting on their arse claiming anxiety.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I have an aunty and uncle who have never worked a day in their life, they have no physical disabilities, and nothing seemingly wrong with them. No one in my family (not even my gran or my dad) know what's apparently wrong with them (because there's nothing wrong with them really) and it's assumed they are just at it, claiming shit like anxiety. It's worked for over 20 years now. I wondered how they afforded holidays and trips to London and all sorts, makes sense now if they are on £350 a week to sit about the house.

I'm back, and just in time :D

My aunt and uncle haven't worked a day in the last 20 years either. What they have managed to do is have 6 children, each one means more £ being diverted from other people's pockets to theirs. This is the thing that I find most fucked about the system to be honest. My parents who have worked solidly have to factor in this crazy idea that more children = greater expense... Can we afford it? Can't we? And people who don't work are actually incentivised to produce children who are much more likely to grow up to follow in their parent's wake and just claim benefits too. I don't exactly blame my aunt and uncle, I blame the system that let 2 healthy people fall into the trap of being idle. And I blame the people who say that people trying to fix it or people who want it fixed cus it takes the piss are just buying into some sort of divide and rule conspiracy.

As for the 15 points thing, it is obviously ludicrous. They need to get real GPs to cross assess patients. I know for a fact that most GPs will happily sign almost anyone off of work for anything because they just want an easy life and it's no skin of their nose. No GP can see inside someone's head though, what's the difference between me pretending to be anxious and unable to work and someone who is actually anxious and unable to work? Realistically you can't just hand out large amounts of extra cash to people with unquantifiable illnesses.

Housing? I don't think people have a fundamental right to live in top areas. I think people make areas what they are. I don't think that people should be able to live for free in areas that few normal working people can dream of living in.

 

[Marmalade]

Isn't this like the old "My grandad smoked 120 a day and lived till he was 97" tho spade? Everyone seems to knows someone who is allegedly getting away with £1400 a month benefits but every time I was ever on the dole I got £67 a week. So I dunno how my reality varies so enormously from everyone elses.

I'm not convinced it's that easy to get £1400 a month.

I'm waiting for Been Head's answer.

So far the comments to the question I've asked Beenhead are based on 6th person historical knowledge, and lacking in detail. I'd like to know specific benefits, which ones directly, and how much. And I'd like that info to be accurate and totally up to date if poss

I live in a town that's got 10% unemployment. I know people who've claimed fraudulently, I'm continually around people who claim both disability and JSA. I know some chancers and I know some legit claimants. I also know their very specific situations. I also know how the system has changed over the last 3 years, regarding JSA and disability, and what that entails for those claiming. At least, in relation to the people I just mentioned

I'm interested in proper truths on this, and I'd prefer to stay away from myths and speculation about situations people think they might know about but maybe really don't have all the details about

 

[parttime crackhead]

I'm waiting for Been Head's answer.

So far the comments to the question I've asked Beenhead are based on 6th person historical knowledge, and lacking in detail. I'd like to know specific benefits, which ones directly, and how much. And I'd like that info to be accurate and totally up to date if poss

I live in a town that's got 10% unemployment. I know people who've claimed fraudulently, I'm continually around people who claim both disability and JSA. I know some chancers and I know some legit claimants. I also know their very specific situations. I also know how the system has changed over the last 3 years, regarding JSA and disability, and what that entails for those claiming. At least, in relation to the people I just mentioned

I'm interested in proper truths on this, and I'd prefer to stay away from myths and speculation about situations people think they might know about but maybe really don't have all the details about

Oooook then. I'll be keeping your posts in the remainder of this thread on ignore then lol. That is, until I can cross-exam my friend's mother on her fake benefit claims & take extensive notes.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

People also seem to forget that, with the way the system is currently set up, there simply aren't enough jobs to go round.

We were turned into a 'service economy' in the eighties, which meant that millions were necessariily shifted onto benefits. This has been propped up by all subsequent governments in order to facilitate the activities of the 1%.

To suggest that people who are at the bottom of the pile, people who have little choice but to claim (some might have become institutionalised, not their fault) should suffer more, is kinda short sighted. Things are going to get very ugly for everyone very quickly.

Ironically it was the introduction of the minimum wage which saw more manufacturing in this country close down and move to China under Labour than it did under Thatcher. The 1% you speak of was fully opposed to this measure. Furthermore bumping up people's minimum wage in an economy that has gone so service orientated has just meant higher pricing throughout the economy, which means that people are still living on roughly the equivalent amount they did before the minimum wage introduction. You covering the long term unemployeds backside with the excuse that unemployment is an innevitability, and it isn't the unemployed's fault is just ridiculous and unproven. There are like a million people who have sat on benefits since the 80s. During the boom we had to ship in millions of Polish people to plug the gap in the supply of workers... and this was a time when unemployment was still running at around 5%. Some people just don't want to work, I get that. You would have to be an utter moron to go out and work for less than you can get for sitting at home for free. You'd have to be an utter moron to leave one of the many shit hole towns and villages of the North to the South in the hope of finding work, when you can sit at home for free. But when you see people coming thousands of miles for work, sometimes tens of thousands of miles to work, it is quite easy to see that it is the benefit's systems fault that so many people have languished on benefits for so long.

 

[Marmalade]

Oooook then. I'll be keeping your posts in the remainder of this thread on ignore then lol. That is, until I can cross-exam my friend's mother on her fake benefit claims & take extensive notes.

Yeah, after I saw you'd posted what you did I suspected this was gonna turn into a thread laden with the above type comments and it's something I want to avoid. Comments like that aren't helpful

I'll avoid going down this route, and instead respond to this kind of comment by exiting now, so things can keep pertinent

This is a thread that's providing decent resources to people who need them. I think it should be kept to facts, and not turn into a he said she said argument, nor should it be a 'dis the scrounger' thread, because it's not about that imo. It's a resource thread and about actualities not Sun level reporting

I'll be back to post relevant news and updates as I find them

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I'm waiting for Been Head's answer.

So far the comments to the question I've asked Beenhead are based on 6th person historical knowledge, and lacking in detail. I'd like to know specific benefits, which ones directly, and how much. And I'd like that info to be accurate and totally up to date if poss

I live in a town that's got 10% unemployment. I know people who've claimed fraudulently, I'm continually around people who claim both disability and JSA. I know some chancers and I know some legit claimants. I also know their very specific situations. I also know how the system has changed over the last 3 years, regarding JSA and disability, and what that entails for those claiming. At least, in relation to the people I just mentioned

I'm interested in proper truths on this, and I'd prefer to stay away from myths and speculation about situations people think they might know about but maybe really don't have all the details about

My aunt and uncle have been given every single test by the doctor you can possibly have ranging from MRIs to colonoscopies to x-rays. They haven't found a single verifiable medical diagnosis on my uncle, although my aunt has poor eye sight and I understand why she should get benefits. He still get's DLA, child maintenence, housing costs etc. All in all between the whole family i'd estimate that everything between the 8 of them (when the children were children) was around 30-40k per year. All my uncle has to do is continue to complain about unverifiable medical complaints and the cash keeps rolling in. He has given consideration to going back to work a few times, but each time they've sat down and done the maths it doesn't add up that he would, even on 20k a year, because that would almost completely void any other benefits they are currently entitled to. It really does pay them to stay unemployed.

 

[spudgun]

So what are people meant to do in the absence of a living wage? Sleep 5 to a room like the poles do? Roam the country in search of work - ripping apart communities even more?

Personally, I'd rather pay a shed load more tax, if the government can't get their act together and make the parasites at the top to cough up fair and square, than live in a shit-hole of desperate people and gated communities. But that's just me.

 

[brimz]

Some people eh ? take the piss

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

So what are people meant to do in the absence of a living wage? Sleep 5 to a room like the poles do? Roam the country in search of work - ripping apart communities even more?

Personally, I'd rather pay a shed load more tax, if the government can't get their act together and make the parasites at the top to cough up fair and square, than live in a shit-hole of desperate people and gated communities. But that's just me.

Polish people live like that because they want to send money home to their families. Many who actually brought their families with them live in rather nice homes from what i've noticed. Most poles are paid more than minimum wage, and they also work more than 37.5 hrs a week too. People need to move to find work, and new communities can be made. I don't get where this idea that either work comes to your doorstep or you just sit there expecting other people to pay your way comes from? Is it meant to be ironic that you hate the people at the top who try to hold on to as much of their work as possible and call them parasites, while in the same breath defending people who haven't worked for generations?

 

[Myshkin]

This is a thread that's providing decent resources to people who need them. I think it should be kept to facts, and not turn into a he said she said argument, nor should it be a 'dis the scrounger' thread, because it's not about that imo. It's a resource thread and about actualities not Sun level reporting

Hear hear.

Have a little bit of sensitivity, people.

This thread was conceived (as Marmz says) as a place for those affected by changes in the benefits system; somewhere they could seek advice and support. Not a place where they have to bear witness to the endless debate over dubious benefit claims - something which no doubt compounds any sense of marginalisation they may already have.

For those who want to partake in such a discussion, I suggest either you start a dedicated thread or you pay a visit to your most downmarket local pub.

Either way, let's get this back on track.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Hear hear.

Have a little bit of sensitivity, people. This thread was conceived (as Marmz says) as a place for those affected by changes in the benefits system; a place where they could seek advice and support. Not a place where they have to bear witness to the endless debate over dubious benefit claims; something which no doubt compounds any sense of marginalisation they may already have.

For those who want to partake in such a discussion, I suggest either you start a dedicated thread or you pay a visit to your most downmarket local pub.

Either way, let's get this back on track.

Happily engages in thread derailment with his opinion:

Which to me says more about the utter inadequacy of the minimum wage than anything else.

Then tries to rerail thread?

Here's an example of what someone who doesn't just want the last word would have written:

Hear hear.

Have a little bit of sensitivity, people. Let's get this back on track.