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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

"I'm afraid you didn't get 15pts" - EADD Benefits Thread

I hope everything goes well for you Monstanoodle and my condolences to Ryan about your mother.

As some of you's will have seen/read my thread in the last 2 weeks regarding needing stimulants especially if I get work (On JSA atm) because of fatigue related to an illness I've had for a few years and will have for life.

I have had really bad social anxiety (Still affects me but not that much now) and have been depressed in the past (Not sure what type but it's not Bi-Polar i.e. what was formerly known as Manic Depression as I've never been diagnosed) and have been on sickness benefit (Can't remeber which one) but didn't score enough points.

Now I know if I did that shitty test again they'd say I was fit for work but if I don't get prescribed a decent stim' I can't work because I'm nappimg 1-2x a day + 8-12hours a night. How the fuck can I work if I'm a fucking sleep?

If my doc' refuses to script me a stim' I'm thinking I have 4 options :-

1. Either take an amphetamine (Including ephedrine and other RC 'phet's and if/when court say it was ephedrine since it breaks down into Nor-Ephedrine/Oxy-Amphetamine.

2. Stock pile an RC stim' that is not tested for whilst I have said substance available to me and use that for the rest of my working life.

3. Attempt suicide (No I don't want to kill myself, don't worry) so they think I'm seriously depressed and put me on the sick.

4. Ask my doc' if she refuses to give me a stim' if she'll give me a sick note. [THIS IS OPTION #1! But I'm typing on a mobile and it's too hard to go back and edit my post, sorry!]
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I mentioned in another thread that I was on IB, and was switched to ESA. Had to have another medical, but failed it. The guy seemed to be a real doctor, unlike the previous medical for IB. However, I appealed, but had to wait about 3 months (possibly 6), until the tribunal. Ask to be put on the appeal rate, whilst you are waiting! You should be paid nearly the same. They don't pay the appeal rate, unless you ask, from my experience. However, I didn't take any notes with me to the appeal, and totally forgot what I'd wrote. Either way, they must have asked me something which I worded differently, on the appeal form. I believe it was something that had changed, whilst I was waiting for my appeal - like being able to go shopping, or some shit. Either way, they cut me straight off, and I had to claim JSA - and wait for that to start. I lost my home, with my missus, and had to go back and live with my mum - alone. They totally fucked up my life, for a period. I despise the whole system. I never bothered appealing again. That's why I'm now doing my own work, from home, so I can stop having to depend on these cunts, who interrogate you and make you feel like a criminal. 32 people dying is criminal. Fucking disgusting. Montsa, appeal, appeal, appeal - until they say yes, and get your appeal rate sorted. You'll be fine! :)
 
Marmalade said:
Monsta: appeal, for the love of god appeal. something like 50% of the appeals used to go through, and I'm sure it'll be a similar rate now too.

The guys doing the assessing are up on numerous fraud charges relating to other parts of their business and this too.
It's fucking insanely mad

Check this abhorent nonsense that was posted in the Guardian yesterday too:
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I didn't know about the fraud thing, yet it doesn't surprise me :|
Thanks for yer words of power Marmz <3
Definitely gunna get on it.
brimz said:
Do you have anyone / organisation that could act as a Advocate ? Mind are good if you have mental health problems . Only problem is that cos of the situation they are getting over worked as are the C.A.B

It is still worth it though , i've never gone to a medical without an advocate present.
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Yes there is one place I can go that's in the same town as my local JCP, but like you say they will also be absolutely fucking stacked with other, new claimants as they were when I had to appeal on the dicision years ago under the old system. But yea I'll look into that.
StretchOutAndWait said:
Know lots of people are worried about this and you're right things are changing. It's all a bit confused at the moment but my understanding of it is that there are basically three separate issues here:
........
One thing you should absolutely do ASAP is write to DWP and request a copy of your ESA85. This is the document written by ATOS where they assess you against the descriptors and it explains how they came to the decision that they recommended. This assumes you had a medical in person. If not - you just filled in a form - then you want the ESA85A.
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You angel, StretchOut!
Some extremely useful bits of info there so thank you massively <3
ryanegg said:
I couldn't sign on the other week because my Mum was ill with cancer and there was nobody to look after her. Phoned up told them the situation and they asked me to get to the job centre by the end of the day if I could. My Mum took a turn for the worse and passed away 2 days later. About a week went by and I phoned the dole again and they said my claim was cancelled because I hadn't phoned them sooner. I couldn't control my anger on the phone, do they really think a jsa claim was my main priority when my Mother was seriously ill? Benefit system is a joke. My Mum and Dad were togther for 40 years until the day she died, he can't claim a funeral payment just because they wern't married!
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Argggh I'm so, so sorry for your loss Ryan. And I'd fucking punch them repeatedly over the phone if it were physically possible.
Much love to you <3
curious_24 said:
I suffer with depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia. I have been in full time employment since I was 18 and wouldn't dream of signing on.
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Different strokes n that. I need to deal with my issues before I can then return to work or these training scheme things they're talking about.
psychodead said:
give it a go, you might like it
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This thread needed a good laugh lol. Cheers psychodead ;)

--- Edit ---

Oh, yes - If anyone else is appealing then start the process quick sharp, as even cunty-phone-evil-minion-bloke said it could take up to 6 months :\
 
Universal credit has already been mentioned but in april next year comes the benefit cap which means for a single person under 35 they will get no more than £350p/m that includes everything - housing, community charge, jsa,esa etc. They will be expected to be in shared accomodation to lower the cost of housing....riots this summer? nah wait till next spring its gonna be a blood bath.
 
blondin said:
Universal credit has already been mentioned but in april next year comes the benefit cap which means for a single person under 35 they will get no more than £350p/m that includes everything - housing, community charge, jsa,esa etc. They will be expected to be in shared accomodation to lower the cost of housing....riots this summer? nah wait till next spring its gonna be a blood bath.
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Seems fair enough, you put in a full weeks shift of around 37hrs a week at a min wage job you'll only get seven hundred and odd quid a month after tax. Getting half that for not working isn't too shabby.
 
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TheSpade said:
Seems fair enough, you put in a full weeks shift of around 37hrs a week at a min wage job you'll only get seven hundred and off quid a month after tax. Getting half that for not working isn't too shabby.
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Not really spade, not if you physically can't work, bedridden and shit and your only getting £350 a month for your entire life spendings; housing, bills, tax, food, medication. Not really doable.
 
If you are actually disabled and cannot work then yeah it is low I agree, you'd be fucked. More than the £280 a month you get on JSA though.
 
The government's got that covered tho Ham. didn't they propose to start moving people in that situation to a cheaper part of the country? I was at a loss for words when I first read what they were considering

[edit]
Also, did anyone see the Dispatches, mentioned in this piece? Not seen it yet, just looking to see of it's still viewable online


Atos assessors told to keep disability benefit approvals low, film suggests
GP applied for job with Atos assessing whether benefit applicants were fit for work, and secretly filmed his training



-------------------

monstanoodle said:
I didn't know about the fraud thing, yet it doesn't surprise me :|
Thanks for yer words of power Marmz <3
Definitely gunna get on it.
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Forgot to mention Monsta, but if you get reassessed, then you can request it to be recorded I think (for the initial assessment too in case anyone reading this hasn't had theirs yet). I know they re-word what you say, and record it in writing in the context that the form requires, rather than the context you gave it ... and that's been criticised for many reasons, and as you say, the result often contradicts what your GP says.

Regarding the above contradictions and problems with the assessment process, specifically on the subject of mental health:

an extract:
A high court judge is considering whether to grant permission for two people with mental health conditions to apply for a judicial review of the controversial Work Capability Assessment (WCA) – the computer-led test which determines who is eligible for sickness and disability benefits – on the grounds that the current system discriminates against people with mental health problems.

Lawyers for the two claimants, who requested anonymity within the court system, told Mr Justice Edwards-Stuart that claimants with mental health problems generally were not well-served by the "very stressful process" of undergoing the 20-minute assessments with strangers.

Nathalie Lieven QC highlighted that there were very high levels of appeals against all decisions not to award the Employment and Support Allowance (the new Incapacity Benefit), currently running at about 40% of unsuccessful claims, and very high levels of decisions being overturned on appeal (also around 40%), describing this as a "highly inefficient and undesirable situation".

She told the judge that many of the medical staff employed by Atos, the company contracted by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to carry out the assessments, had no specialist knowledge of mental health issues.

Claimants with mental health problems were less likely to understand the need to gather extra medical evidence from their doctor in support of their claim, they might have less insight into their own conditions, were more likely to have chaotic lifestyles, and were less well-equipped to make phone calls to organisations that might support them, she said.

Because they were also often reluctant to tell people about their mental health problems, they were often not very good at summarising the nature of their illness, sometimes downplaying its severity.

"By the very nature of the condition, they are more likely to find the process of appealing very difficult and it may be very detrimental to their condition," she said.
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So before you get reassessed I'd consider requesting whatever notes and info that's already been taken by them that you're entitled to have a copy of, as well as asking for the session to be recorded when it happens. As the article below highlights, it's a way of ensuring that your details are correctly registered when you're asked the questions.

Article with some info about recording your assessment:
New unhappiness with the system, run by the private firm Atos, has emerged over individuals' requests to record their assessment as a way of ensuring that their details are/were correctly registered.
 
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From yesterday's Guardian:



Atos, the firm that runs the work capability assessment designed to encourage people to move off benefits and into employment, has won contracts worth more than £400m to test whether disabled people should continue receiving benefits..

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) announced the award of three contracts in England and Wales, with Atos unexpectedly winning the lion's share of the work. The smaller of the three contracts, covering Wales and parts of central England, was won by the outsourcing company Capita.

The government will replace the working-age disability living allowance (DLA) with a new personal independence payment (PIP), from next year and aims to cut spending by 20% over the next three years. DLA, which pays out a maximum of £130 a week, is a welfare payment designed to help people look after themselves and aimed at those who find it difficult to walk or get around. The government says that in eight years the number of people claiming DLA has risen by about 30%, from 2.5 million to 3.2 million, with the annual cost now £13bn. Ministers argue that there are no checks on who gets the benefit, hence the need for an assessment system.

There has been much disquiet about Atos over its existing government contract to test whether the long term sick should continue receiving benefits.There have been accusations of widespread inaccuracies in the medical reports used to help determine whether individuals are eligible for sickness benefits.

This week Prof Malcolm Harrington, who was appointed by the government to review the work capability assessment, told BBC's Panorama that the test was "patchy" and needed improvement.

The biggest corporate loser appears to be G4S, which had begun its own tests with disabled people two years ago and hoped to be awarded a number of contracts. The final stages of the award process came in early July, when details of the debacle over Olympic security began to emerg

G4S is still in line for two smaller contracts – one in Northern Ireland and the other a national trial. These are worth about £200m in total, industry insiders estimate.

Richard Hawkes, chief executive of the disability charity Scope, said the tests were deeply flawed. "Just this week the government and Atos, the contractor that carries out its fitness for work test, have come under a great deal of criticism about how this assessment is being delivered to disabled people. Yet in less than a year from now, disabled people could have to go through two deeply flawed assessments in the same month to get the essential financial support they need to live their lives.

"Disabled people are incredibly anxious and afraid that the switch from DLA to PIP is just an excuse to cut the support they need. The decision about which private company will run the assessment is of little significance to the thousands of disabled people who are just deeply worried about losing their financial lifeline," Hawkes said.

Campaigners say achieving the level of saving required would mean cutting about 500,000 people from the benefit roll, which would lead to arbitrary judgments being made.

A spokesman for the charity Disability Rights UK, which lobbied the government to make the test fairer, said: "We are looking to ensure all companies assessing disabled people sign up to principles to ensure the assessment process works as well as possible.

"Contracts are worth millions but are designed to remove support from thousands of disabled people and are likely to provoke strong feelings. This is especially among disabled people who have not had needs identified in other assessments. We hope DWP and contractors will work very closely with advice organisations like ours to ensure independent, expert information is available to all 2 million people going through the new tests."

The government said that DLA reform was about "are in and out of work benefits". When ministers proposed the reforms, the DWP argued "evidence suggests that DLA can also act as a barrier to work when it should enable people to lead independent lives, including having or getting a job".

In a letter to charities, the DWP said: "We've been very clear that the assessment must be consistent and of the same high quality throughout the country … providers will be working to the same legislative framework and criteria, which introduces a more objective, accurate assessment. DWP will be closely monitoring and auditing assessments to ensure their quality and consistency."

• This article was amended on 2 August to clarify that Atos's contracts are to test whether disabled people should continue receiving benefits.
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The government's got that covered tho Ham. didn't they propose to start moving people in that situation to a cheaper part of the country?
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They really said that? That's absolute madness. Just ship people around the country to cheaper place, it'd never work.
 
Brilliant articles you've pulled up there Marmz - The first one (about the two people making a case for change with regards to mental health issues) I practically shouted "Yes!" at every paragraph.
 
One thing that might give you a little smile monsta, I once spoke with a crack addict who referred to crack as "work". When I was on the dole and was asked "How far are you willing to travel for work?" I always felt a little warm ready brek glow inside despite the god-forsaken dole office I was in ;)
 
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