Miscellaneous The Big & Dandy Psychedelics of the Future Thread

[SmC]

Do drugs, kids.

Fixed.

Drugs are good, m'kay.. %)

 

[Helios.]

If N,N-di-vinyl tryptamines are impossible that's news to me. I really don't know and (not to be rude but) I really don't care.

Not sure about 7-substituted tryptamines, but 6-ones are inactive.

A hydroponic shroom is one that has not been grown on cow shit but rather suspended over water.

 

[Dondante]

They are makeable, but I think there's some fear of neurotoxicity with the 7-substituted compounds. The 7-halides can easily be made substituted but I'm not sure anyone has tried this.

Care to elaborate w/ regards to the neurotoxicity?

Here's what I found in Tihkal:

#40. 5-MEO-MIPT
[7-MeO-MIPT] showed something going on at 20 mg orally with perhaps a little distortion in the visual field. And, separately, at 70 milligrams orally there might have been a light-headedness after a few minutes. Nothing more. It, too, has been given the kiss of death by being declared inactive at the 50 milligram level.

To see if the 7-position corresponds to the 4-position of phens, something like 5-meo-7-ethyl-N,N-DMT would be interesting to test. The example above is pretty meaningless for a two reasons ...

1. The 7-Meo would correspond to TMPEA, which is inactive even as a phenethylamine. Add a halogen or an alkyl or a thioalkyl and you're set.

2. Moving a substituient to the 7-position still won't have the 2,4,5 substitution pattern. Adding a 5-meo would fix this.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

If N,N-di-vinyl tryptamines are impossible that's news to me. I really don't know and (not to be rude but) I really don't care.



A hydroponic shroom is one that has not been grown on cow shit but rather suspended over water.

I proposed N,N-divinyltryptamine many years ago, and a few of the chem heads said it would be impossible...that the two saturated groups would interact. Shulgin said that was happening with 5-MeO-N,N-dipropargyltryptamine. But then it doesn't happen with DALT. F&B, can you interject here? You were one who said it was impossible.

 

[nuke]

Care to elaborate w/ regards to the neurotoxicity?

To see if the 7-position corresponds to the 4-position of phens, something like 5-meo-7-ethyl-N,N-DMT would be interesting to test. The example above is pretty meaningless for a two reasons ...

1. The 7-Meo would correspond to TMPEA, which is inactive even as a phenethylamine. Add a halogen or an alkyl or a thioalkyl and you're set.

2. Moving a substituient to the 7-position still won't have the 2,4,5 substitution pattern. Adding a 5-meo would fix this.

Here's a list of neurotoxic/potentially so tryptamines:
4,5-DiHydroxy-T Very Neurotoxic
5-MeO-DiPT Questionably Neurotoxic
5,6-DiHydroxy-T Very Neurotoxic
5,7-DiHydroxy-T Very Neurotoxic
6,7-DiHydroxy-T Moderately Neurotoxic
4,5-DiOne-T Very Neurotoxic
2-amino-alpha-carboline Neurotoxic
2,n-DiMethyl-Harmine Very Neurotoxic
Harmane/Norharmane Moderately Neurotoxic
2-Methyl-Norharmane Very Neurotoxic
Harmaline - Somewhat Neurotoxic
1-TriClMe-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline Very Neurotoxic
1-TriBrMe-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline Very Neurotoxic
Ibogaine - Somewhat Neurotoxic

By neurotoxic I mean negative neuronal functioning (cell death, diminished transporter/transmitter/precursor/enzyme concentrations) somewhere in the brain that is long lasting or permanent.

My worry with 7-substituted things is how the body goes about attacking such compounds in the body, and whether the 5-MeO things might be somewhat dangerous in the first place. Preferentially, neuronal cells seem to 5-hydroxylate raw tryptamines and o-demthylate and 6-hydroxylate 5-MeO-Ts (aside from partial and full n-deamination). But how are the 7-things metabolised? Could they form something inherently dangerous, or be so themselves? We really need someone to administer some new things to mice or rats or chimps and see how their brains cope.

 

[Helios.]

7-tryps.

Dead End. (>98% pred.)

*ain't no need to question the authority*

 

[Dondante]

For Nuke:

Alterations in Body Temperature, Corticosterone, and Behavior Following the Administration of 5-Methoxy-Diisopropyltryptamine ('Foxy') to Adult Rats: a New Drug of Abuse.

Williams MT, Herring NR, Schaefer TL, Skelton MR, Campbell NG, Lipton JW, McCrea AE, Vorhees CV.

While we did not directly determine the potential of
5-MEO-DIPT to induce neurotoxicity, we did demonstrate
there were no long-term reductions in monoamines, an
effect sometimes associated with psychostimulant-induced
neurotoxicity. For example, markers for neurotoxicity are
increased and monoamines decreased 72 h following a
single day of multiple methamphetamine administrations
(Bowyer et al, 1994; Cappon et al, 1997; O’Callaghan and
Miller, 2002; O’Dell and Marshall, 2002). We therefore
selected the 72 h time point for examination of brain regions
in this study. Nonetheless, no depletions of monoamines
were noted; whether this was related to drug-induced
hypothermia, a protective effect with most substituted
amphetamines, is not yet known and will require treating
animals at different ambient temperatures to resolve. ...

The lack of depletions in monoamines and the
hypothermia suggest that 5-MEO-DIPT does not induce
neurotoxicity to monoaminergic neurons; however, effects
on other neurotransmitters are unknown.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=17047665&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

 

[Vanadium]

Hello !

I've seen this thread and dragonflies/LSD and 5HTP receptors. I 've decided to get a member...

I'm a new member comes from switzerland (from hazy-spirit.net forum ). I dont speak english very well, I try to do the best i can, ok `?

Here is a list of new phenethylamine and tryptamines.

Page 1 :

- First coumpound is 2C-SO-2 , it's a 2C-T-2 analog (sulfoxide istead of sulfide). The sulfoxide has exactly the same effet as sulfide because sulfide,sulfoxyde and sulfones are transofmed in the body. The advntage of 2C-SO-X is that, like HOT-X serie, isnt registered as drug in "Shedule" and these moles has the same psychedelics effects.

- The 2,3,4-trimethoxy-b-oxo-phenethylamine (mescalone) is propable not active , because the mescaline is not a potent compound (active at 200-300 mg ), the bk-analog is more polar and quickly destroyed in the kidney. The bk-TMA is propably a better molecule.

- bk-DOM is beta-keto analog of DOM

- DFMDMA is the difluoromethylenedioxy analog of MDMA. I thing this coumpound should be synthethised and explored. What the electronegativity of fluor atom can do in brain.

- The fifth is an cycloaromatic analog of 2C-T-X serie. I dont know if it can really potent...

- The last compound is a cyclo version of MDMA. You take MDMA and bend the N-Methyl to Benzene ring.



Page 2:

A. This is a utopic cyclo analog of DOB ! I dont thing it's active.

B. Dr. Shlugin has sythethised some very interesting analogs of DOM : 2-TOM & 5-TOM. Good effects but there is a loss of potency by x10 or x15. These aromatic 5-TOM-DFLY and 2-TOM-DFLY can increase the molecule potency.

C&E are ideas of new amphetamines sustutuants.

D is the methylenedioxy analog of 2-AI. Propably good effect like MD(M)A

F. N-(4-bromobenzyl)tryptamine has been synthethised and found to be a very potent 5-HT antagonist.

G. How dont make a tryptamine with 5-BzO instead of 5-MeO ? 5-Benzyloxy-T and 5-fluoro-T should be more explored.

H. The Dragonfly analog of tryptamine.

I. This molecule is called NTBT. The tryptamine with a tert-butyl group fixed on amine is found to have a clear-headed effect like GHB (saw in Tihkal, A. Shulgin).

Most of these molecule are quite simply created only on paper and in my mind !

 

[nuke]

- bk-DOM is beta-keto analog of DOM

Probably effective, but contains no substitution on the amine so it will not be very stable.

- DFMDMA is the difluoromethylenedioxy analog of MDMA. I thing this coumpound should be synthethised and explored. What the electronegativity of fluor atom can do in brain.

Proceed with caution and rats, it would be interesting to see how the metabolic works of the mind and body will digest this, but it might lend to some very bad neurotoxicity.

2c will be very unstable and dangerous to the bladder/kidneys.
2d will screw up the binding a lot and I'm not sure it will be active at any level.

 

[Youkai]

I want an RC that gives me the feel good effects of ecstasy, the visuals of LSD, the munchies of pot, the alertness of speed, the pain relief of opiates, and the erection of viagra. Is that too much to ask for? Sheesh Shulgin... get to work already!

its called LSD.

 

[fastandbulbous]

A is effectively the benzopyran equivalent of the tetralins (tetrahydronapthylene) which are not active as hallucinogens because of the restraint of the PEA sidechain - can't put the nitrogen where it needs to be for binding - probably a dopamine agonist

C shows the tranylcypromine analogues of the psychedelic amphetamines. I believe they are serious MAOIs like their parent compound (the DOM analogue mentioned in PIHKAL is a MAOI)

D is known and doesn't have the dopaminergic 'kick' that's needed. More serotonogic - moreso than even IAP

H should be the 5,6-substituted furan ring (O on the 5 pos) to be a dragonfly like structure

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

Even though these are not too creative, what would one think of 5-MeO-Allyl (edit)lIsoPropylTryptamine? Or any of the various possible allyl (edit) tryptamines, such as 4-Ho-iPALT, 4-Ho-EALT, etc ?

I bet iPALT compounds will be good.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

What do you mean? There are many alkyl groups (methyl, ethyl, propyl, etc.) There is no such thing as 5-MeO-AlkylIsoPropylTryptamine...or rather that name would refer to any N,N-dialkyltryptamine which contains an isopropyl and another alkyl group.

Are you refering to a mono-alkyl tryptamine (such as N-isopropyltryptamine), a dialkyltryptamine (N,N-di-isopropyltryptamine), or are you just very confused as to what 'alkyl' means?

 

[Helios.]

Dude I'm sooo high,
You want 3-MeO-Methamphetamine aka Meow Mix powder/pills.

 

[djfriendly]

Because he abbreviated it "AL" (ala DALT) I suspect he meant allyl and not alkyl. I also suspect the answer to your last question is yes.

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

Yeah, I meant allyl, not alkyl. Opps.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

In that case, I agree. Especially something like N-methyl-N-allyltryptamine.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Yep; a carbon with a double bond to another carbon will not form a stable amine as tautomerization will result in a resonance between the amine & the imine (as happens with keto-enol tautomerization), but the imine isnt particularly stable and has a tendancy towards hydrolytic cleavage. This effectively means that a vinylamine will convert to a lower order amine (tertiary -> secondary; secondary -> primary) and acetaldehyde. I'm not aware of any imines of tryptamine that is stable except under very special circumstances (eg totally anhydrous, under nitrogen at at bloody cold temps), but if anybody knows of any I'm always open to learning

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

Your speech confounds me. Are you giving reason to the fact that these compounds might, or probably won't be interesting?

Your knowledge of chemistry really leaves your speech with nothing I can understand.

 

[Dondante]

^^He's just saying that a vinyl substituent on the nitrogen would not work (it's not stable enough), but having an allyl would be just fine.