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Miscellaneous The Big & Dandy Psychedelics of the Future Thread

It'd like to see all the possible lysergamides be made (there's a lot of them especially once you start to combine R1, R6, and R2/R3 subs most are likely nothing special but if you make all of them you're going to find a few gems.... now the only problem is money the synths aren't simple or cheap). The compound with an oxygen instead of the nitrogen on the same place the R1 substitutions are applied would presumably be active just like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DiBF is which gives us even more possible compounds.

All possible achs (apparently o-pcp/o-pcpy can exist - ) Again the only problem is money. Who is going to pay for their production?

All possible 2c-x compounds and their derivatives. Hot-7 (aka an -oh on the nitrogen), tcb-2 and the same modification applied to all of them. Again this gives a huge amount of compounds. And again who is going to pay for their production?

The same for tryptamines.

But is it even necessary to activate the 5ht2a receptor to start the cascade necessary for psychedelic effects or can you do that more directly? The same goes for dissociative effects - do you have to touch the NMDA receptor to produce them or can you do it more directly? You probably can (in both cases), which means there has to be an enormous amount of molecules with psychedelic and/or dissociative effects which we just haven't discovered yet. Most will probably be pretty meh if not even dangerous but there are almost certainly some gems still waiting to be found. But again, the problem is money. To use the brute force approach and just make and test every possible one would be way too expensive. We'll need a much more targeted way of doing it. Perhaps computers will one day be able to calculate which ones are going to be the best with enough accuracy and speed that making all will not be necessary.
 
in the "extensions and commentary" of the 2-ct-21 section, dr. shulgin mentions one of the reasons he put a fluoro on the ethyl of 2ct2: because it immitates bigger halogens.

we already know 2-fluoro-deschloroketamine works (very well, even orally)... why wouldnt 2-fluoro-ethyl? it might be out of the system faster than 2fdck (which has significant legs over ketamine, ime)
 
it's a shame the 5-methylthio PEAs weren't explored more; reading the 5-TOET experience reports in PIHKAL (yeah, i guess it was just that one subject and metabolism speculation yada yada) definitely peaked my interest.

i mean, no experiences with the 2 carbon homologue (2C-5-TOET)?

it makes me wonder if there aren't decades of worlds to explore, just replacing the 5-methoxy with a 5-methylthio on promising PEAs

2C-5-TOF , 2C-5-TO-TFM, actually i wonder if 2C-TO-T-7 wouldn't be extra interesting for those with the hypothetical magic sulphur metabolism

i really like (what i think was) DOC, maybe 5-TOC?

(i think it was the mental imagery in the 5-TOM/ 5-TOET entries that peaked my interest the most)
 
Anonymous Dissident said:
I seem to remember reading that 5-ho-dipt could be an interesting drug, but I can't remember where I read it...
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Oh wow, that does sound....interesting. I'm not sure I would be in a hurry to be the first to self administer it, though. Can't predict much from 5-HO-DMT and the extended DiPT family, but they're all known for producing some subjectively dirty feeling bodyload.
 
does putting an acyl group... anywhere on a molecule make it a prime suspect for being a prodrug?

for instance, if we were to put one on one of the methyls of dmt, would it be likely to hydrolize into dmt?

what about, say, the indole nitrogen of 5-meo-dmt?

edit

just wondering, i was thinking about this when i drew these

ttoci3p.png
 
here's a reference, if this sort of sub works on mdma then why shouldn't it work on 2c-e?

en.m.wikipedia.org

N-t-BOC-MDMA - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

i'd be interested in trying some of these, apparently the stomach acid can convert it into the respective compound.

anyone up for some N-cP-2C-P?
 
nepalnt21 said:
does putting an acyl group... anywhere on a molecule make it a prime suspect for being a prodrug?

for instance, if we were to put one on one of the methyls of dmt, would it be likely to hydrolize into dmt?

what about, say, the indole nitrogen of 5-meo-dmt?

edit

just wondering, i was thinking about this when i drew these

ttoci3p.png
Click to expand...

With the ACH example, tertiary amines get cleaved at the amine into potentially equivalent portions of the 2 resulting secondary amines (I don't think this has been confirmed yet, though it is known that an ACH with a diethylamine metabolizes into a bunch of regular PCE). Thus that compound you drew would be metabolized into MXE and some inactive acylamine compound (that may in turned get metabolized to PCA). ACH's only seem to bind to the NMDA channel if the carbon(s) on the amine side chain immediately adjacent to the nitrogen are fully saturated. No idea why but that's just what I've observed from reading papers on SAR
 
Nervewing said:
With the ACH example, tertiary amines get cleaved at the amine into potentially equivalent portions of the 2 resulting secondary amines (I don't think this has been confirmed yet, though it is known that an ACH with a diethylamine metabolizes into a bunch of regular PCE).
Click to expand...
(please excuse my ignorance, i'm pretty wet behind the ears when it comes to chemistry)

does this also mean cyclic amine substitutions (like PCP) get metabolized into chain tertiary amines, and continue along the line into PCE, PCM, PCA etc.?

does this mean the ethyl/ acyl-amine would be the same as having the diethyl amine? (edit, i think i get what you mean... the double bonded oxygen means no fully saturated carbon, which means no binding to NMDAr, until it's metabolized?)

if it metabolizes into MXE, why haven't we seen any 3-methoxy-2'-oxo-PCdiethyl delightfulness? it would seem to be a shoe-in for popularity, if i understand what you're saying.
 
nepalnt21 said:
(please excuse my ignorance, i'm pretty wet behind the ears when it comes to chemistry)

does this also mean cyclic amine substitutions (like PCP) get metabolized into chain tertiary amines, and continue along the line into PCE, PCM, PCA etc.?

does this mean the ethyl/ acyl-amine would be the same as having the diethyl amine? (edit, i think i get what you mean... the double bonded oxygen means no fully saturated carbon, which means no binding to NMDAr, until it's metabolized?)

if it metabolizes into MXE, why haven't we seen any 3-methoxy-2'-oxo-PCdiethyl delightfulness? it would seem to be a shoe-in for popularity, if i understand what you're saying.
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Oh no I should've specified this doesn't happen with cyclic amines for whatever reason

And yeah, it would split into supposedly equal portions of MXE and some inactive acyl compound, though that acyl compound may in turn get metabolized into PCA. At that point it would come down to potency; like yes it would be functionally the same as a diethyl amine, but it would hypothetically be half as potent. (This is assuming that the acyl compound doesn't get metabolized into something active too)

That's a very good question, not sure why no one has done that I think it would be a totally viable route for an MXE prodrug. But another clarification I should make is that the amine-splitting metabolism has only been observed in base ACH's. No one knows yet how substitutions may affect that process.
 
though it is known that an ACH with a diethylamine metabolizes into a bunch of regular PCE
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Woah that's pretty neat. If you have a source on the metabolism I'd love to read further, I searched N,N-diethyl-1-phenylcyclohexylamine ("PCDEA")
but all I found were a few conflicting behavioral studies in rodents—one found PCDEA was significantly less potent than PCE and the other two found it was slightly less potent. A similar trend was observed with N,N-dimethyl-1-phenylcyclohexylamine ("PCDMA") versus PCM.

I guess it does make sense, and I assume PCDEA would be metabolized to PCE and acetaldehyde (analogous to how ketamine goes to norketamine and formaldehyde). PCDEA could probably be active as well, although the above studies suggest it would be a pretty weak effect.
 
wtf is up with 2,5-dimethoxy-4-allylphenethylamine???

why is it not a thing? shouldn't it be somewhat similar to 2c-p?

the astatine 2c-a is not real and never will be, this could be the real 2c-a
 
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ok, looks like 2c-allyl is a bust i guess... lol

what about the hopea series? hydroxyls on the amines of phenethylamines?

what about mdoh, but with an acyl group also on the amine? or lysine, ala vyvanse?

lys-mdoh

deja vu, i remember talking about this before, in the context of drugs like N-t-BOC-mdma (lol o yeah, it's right up there)
 
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