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The Big & Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread - Second Iteration

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SONN said:
I also heard that certain corporations that distribute the seeds treat them with a chemical that prevents the 'misuse' of them.
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No, that's an old urban myth. Morning glories make most people sick all by themselves. There's no company in their right mind going to deliberately put a sickening poison on to morning glory seeds. For all they know your granny might be handling them and have a terrible reaction to the poison and they'd be sued for every penny they've got.

Not to mention the sheer expense of dipping every morning glory seed into a purpose built vat of poison.
 
Ismene said:
There's no company in their right mind going to deliberately put a sickening poison on to morning glory seeds. For all they know your granny might be handling them and have a terrible reaction to the poison and they'd be sued for every penny they've got.

Not to mention the sheer expense of dipping every morning glory seed into a purpose built vat of poison.
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You make a good point Ismene. Since the 70's I never believed any company would put poison on the seeds. Both store bought as well as homegown can have that same nauseating effect or not have it. I have never seen any solid evidence that this is done. I have seen only a few brands state that "the seeds herein are for planting purposes only" but don't know if it means they are treated. Most of the ones on the seed rack say nothing. Also scouring the internet for info reveals the same mish mash of statements that companies poison seeds but no information as to how and what. I have also read that it is untrue after some people claimed they called a company saying they had allergies and needed to know if the seeds were treated and were told "No". Then I have also read it is a myth. Lots of varying info as usual.

Of course proceed at your own risk. But unless someone has some solid info, I too believe this is a myth based off of my younger days and utilizing some store bought brands as well as homegrown.
 
It just wouldn't be worth the risk or the expense would it? If your child handles the seeds and puts his fingers in his mouth he has to be hospitalised with violent nausea? Not to mention the expense of training everyone in the company to handle poisons - and god knows how deadly this poison must be if the dose from a few morning glory seeds enough to make you sick as a dog. Presumably a vat of the stuff would be enough to kill half the country. What price is the insurance and health and safety requirements going to be for you to keep and handle such a deadly poison in your workplace? It's complete garbage.
 
Some manufacturers treat their seeds with fungicides. That's what people are talking about with 'treated seeds'. Just look for the organic or untreated ones. You don't want to be ingesting that stuff.
 
Teotzlcoatl said:
LSA can be awesome, it's a wonderful entheogen

try crushing the seeds and doing a cold water extraction with fresh peppermint leafs added

this should convert the LSA into better more psychedelic compounds (LSH?)
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Does anyone have any idea how fresh peppermint lead would do that? I've hear it does convert it somehow to LSH, but im skeptical?

Regardless, would it help the trip in any way to do it with the peppermint?
 
Food-grade sulfur dust is just a preservative; it is edible and a very common ingredient in foods such as dried fruit. That's why it says food-grade. It is not an additive to prevent people from eating them. Some people even take it as a health supplement. Do some Googling. If that's all that is on your seeds, and there aren't any pesticides or fungicides, I don't see any reason they wouldn't be fine to eat.

Just make sure to start with a very small number of seeds. Some people report intense psychedelic effects from as little as 3 or 4 seeds.
 
Survived Abortion said:
Some manufacturers treat their seeds with fungicides.
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Morning glory seeds are treated with fungicides? Do you have any evidence for this or have you just pulled it out of your crack? Morning glory seeds are pretty self-protected by a hard seed coat. They are also very cheap and a company is incredibly unlikely to go to the expense of coating them with "fungicide" unless they sell them at 10 times the cost of all other morning glory seeds.

That's what people are talking about with 'treated seeds'.

No they arn't, they're talking about seeds coated with a poison to prevent people ingesting them.
 
i've had homegrown morning glories before. they caused about as much nausea as store bought.
 
Ismene said:
No, that's an old urban myth. Morning glories make most people sick all by themselves. There's no company in their right mind going to deliberately put a sickening poison on to morning glory seeds. For all they know your granny might be handling them and have a terrible reaction to the poison and they'd be sued for every penny they've got.

Not to mention the sheer expense of dipping every morning glory seed into a purpose built vat of poison.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure if it's true either, but the idea doesn't seem so ludicrous to me. Pharma companies put large amounts (IE larger than an actual OTC pill) of acetaminophen to prevent abuse of synthetic opiates, and people are seriously injured or die from liver poisoning from this.
 
Ismene said:
Morning glory seeds are treated with fungicides? Do you have any evidence for this or have you just pulled it out of your crack?
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Pulled it out of my crack? You have a seriously bad attitude problem.

A great proportion of commercial seeds are treated with fungicides. Of course there are untreated seeds - usually the shop bought ones that come in little packets for home growers. But sometimes even these can be treated. It's most often industrial scale batches of seeds that are treated - with chemicals like Captan (ethyl mercaptan) and Thiram. These chemicals are toxic, so there is no distinction between intentional "poisoning" as you call it, and seed tratment. I think you should refrain from boorishly throwing your weight around until you've googled for simple answers. It's not that difficult.

So, you want proof that I'm not "pulling it out of my crack" Ismene? Okay, I'll google for you. Here's your proof - (although I'm sure you'll probably find a way to divert the arguement and invent a reason why it's not proof):

International Seed Federation - http://www.worldseed.org/isf/seed_treatment.html
North Dakota State University - http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/crops/pp447w.htm
EPA (US Environmental Protection Angency) - http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0122fact_thiram.pdf

Thiram (fungicide used on seeds) - http://www.taminco.com/products/products/thiram.html
Thiram (Wikipedia) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiram
Captan (fungicide used on seeds) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captan

Companies deliveing seed treatment products and methods:

http://agproducts.basf.us/products/seed-treatment/seed-treatment-index.html
http://www.syngentacropprotection.com/prodrender/index.aspx?prodid=721
http://www.bayercropscience.com/bcsweb/cropprotection.nsf/id/seedtreatment-products
http://www.nufarm.com/USST/SeedTreatment

Here's a quote from the EPA (the United Sates Environmental Protection Agency):

"Thiram is a non-systemic fungicide used to prevent crop damage in the field and to protect harvested crops (apples, peaches, and strawberries) from deterioration in storage or transport. It is also used as a seed protectant (e.g. small seeded vegetables, large seeded vegetables, cereal grains and other seeds, coniferous seeds, cotton seed, ornamental seeds, and soybeans)."
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0122fact_thiram.pdf


Here's a quote from the NDSU, at the link I provided above:

"Fungicidal seed treatments are used for three reasons: (1) to control soil-borne fungal disease organisms (pathogens) that cause seed rots, damping-off, seedling blights and root rot; (2) to control fungal pathogens that are surface-borne on the seed, such as those that cause covered smuts of barley and oats, bunt of wheat, black point of cereal grains, and seed-borne safflower rust; and (3) to control internally seed-borne fungal pathogens such as the loose smut fungi of cereals."
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/crops/pp447w.htm


Here is a quote from the forums at idigmygarden.com:

"From Johnny's, I just received a packet of summer patty pan squash seeds called Starship. On the packet it says, "Caution: Seed treated with Thiram. Do not use for food, feed, or oil." What is this? Is it safe to eat food that comes from these treated seeds?"
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6687
 
Survived Abortion said:
Of course there are untreated seeds - usually the shop bought ones that come in little packets for home growers.
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You mean like morning glory seeds?

Companies deliveing seed treatment products and methods:

Yes mate, we all know seeds being used to grow crops on a commercial basis may be treated. The commercial seeds for growing crops are big money - that's why it's worth treating them. Can you follow the logic?

I really can't explain it any simpler than that. I hope you followed it.


Pulled it out of my crack?

Do you really need me to answer this?
 
basically if you buy seeds that are sold by people selling other psychoactives, as oppose to people selling general gardening seeds and plants etc, they are more likely to be suitable for consumption i.e. no pesticides

but maintain not too much, but a little skepticism, because some people selling things cut corners ...
 
Since freshness is important, purchasing seeds from some ethno companies is a gamble. Many don't care and will give you 5 year old seeds. Yet every Winter/Spring some of the commercial seed companies sell pretty much new crop. At least that's what my experience has been. So I can see why someone would reach for the packets on the shelf in a supermarket. Freshness is more consistent. That some seeds may be treated is the concern and has been for as long as I have known about these. (1975) I still hear the same range of responses. Both yes and no.

Thanks for kicking it around Survived Abortion/Ismene. It's a great way to get more info on this topic.

What? No one on this board packages seeds for Burpee or Northrop King that can tell us EXACTLY what seeds are treatred and with what? :D Or not at all?
 
Merged into our Big & Dandy Thread.
Some people seem to be responding to 5 year old posts, but still I'm sure the provided info is appreciated by all LSA-seed eaters around presently!
 
I'm preparing my seeds tomorrow when they will (hopefully) arrive. I'll consume on wednsday. Tell me what you guys think of the plan.

1. Crush up seeds as fine as possible
2. Put crushed seeds in a bottle of water
3. Shake water bottle continuously and leave bottle overnight
4. Filter out crushed seeds with an old t-shirt or even an old dress shirt if the particles are fine enough.
5. Take a deep breath
6. Trip balls
 
make sure to use distilled water so that your seeds are not destroyed by chlorine
 
IamMe90 said:
Burpee doesn't treat seeds.
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Any reason this conclusion was drawn? Inside knowledge or just what is going around? Burpee was the first I tried in 1979. Never felt poisoned either but for sure had nausea when tasting them. When not tasting them I got away with no nausea. However I do not feel they are treated with anything either but it is just an educated guess at this point. There is a post somewhere that a person called up Burpee and asked if the seeds had anything on them as they were allergic pesticides. The answer was no. Probably the closest fact we have so far.

Never did a cold water extract. Just either chewed (gross) or powdered and down the hatch. It has been a good while though but have had great trips.

Just got through reading all of Survived Abortions post and links. Thanks again for taking the time to post that.
 
Burpee explicitly states on its website and packages that they don't treat seeds.

From their website:

"All seeds sold under the Burpee name are never chemically treated, making them well-suited for sustainable gardens."
 
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