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The Big & Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread - Second Iteration

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^ Perfect, thanks IamMe90. I see you've done your research. :D
 
I suspect that the first seeds I took were treated, though I obviously can't confirm it and don't remember the brand, as the toxic I effects I experienced were far greater than any subsequent, higher dosed trips. It really felt like actually being poisoned, not just being a little sick, whereas with Burpee seeds (and this previous horrible trip was the reason why I did some researching for brands that explicitly do not treat seeds) just gave me what I suspect is a normal MG trip, quite a bit of nausea on the come up and relatively few side effects after purging.
 
Other than homegrown, Burpee was the only commercial brand I ever had. They have been around for years. Since I didn't notice anything different between those and homegrown I suspected they were not treated. I can not say I ever had treated seeds. Perhaps some companies do that. I imagine you'd know it from feeling sicker than just the transient nausea that comes with the seeds themselves. As you said IamMe, you felt far sicker and knew something may have been up.

Cool, a little more knowledge on the subject has been had.
 
I would agree with IamMe90. There was one experience I had with morning glories that I felt like I could barely move and my body felt poisoned. I didn't even trip and it was a different brand than the others i'd done so i figured they had been treated with god knows what.
 
As Burpee say - treating seeds these days is going to be even more unlikely than it was back in the late 60's as most people are keen on natural, organic and non-pesticide products in their gardens.
 
JackARoe, the Thiram or Captan that some seeds are coated with may or may not make you feel poisoned depending on how much you consume, but they are definitely not healthy for you in any way. Companies using Thiram on their seeds are legally required to put a warning on the outside of the packet that the seeds have been treated, and are unsuitable for consumption. The lysergamides and other compounds in the seeds will cause a certain amount of nausea sometimes, which is usually tolerable for most people. So in itself, nausea is not an indicator of treated seeds, but if you do eat treated seeds you are most likely to be sick (probably in a more poisoned way like IamMe90 and SONN related).

The seeds I have bought from stores near me (Wilkinson's and B&Q) have not been treated. I have had nausea a few times, but it is always very bearable. I have puked, but it is just like any other psychedelic purge.

Kipo, I'm hoping you haven't made this preparation yet. Please use only spring water or distilled water (evaprorated and recondensed). The chlorine in tap water will seriously degrade your ergot alkaloids as they are very fragile. Also please make sure to do the extraction in low light conditions.
 
Survived Abortion said:
So in itself, nausea is not an indicator of treated seeds, but if you do eat treated seeds you are most likely to be sick (probably in a more poisoned way like IamMe90 and SONN related).
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Wouldn't the dose of both be required before making claims like this? For example, do you have any idea if 50 of your alleged "treated" seeds make you sicker and "more poisoned" than ingesting 250 "untreated" seeds?
 
I really don't even recall my dosage when I felt sicker but I know it wasn't any more than 250 and I felt more fatigue and bodily discomfort than when I did 700 seeds so....
 
Ismene said:
Wouldn't the dose of both be required before making claims like this? For example, do you have any idea if 50 of your alleged "treated" seeds make you sicker and "more poisoned" than ingesting 250 "untreated" seeds?
Click to expand...

No I don't have any idea if 50 treated seeds would make you feel sicker than 250 seeds, because how nauseous you get from the 5HT effects of LSA is entirely dependent upon the individual. And I have no idea how much treatment these companies put on their seeds, and what the toxic levels of Thiram or Captan are. But those chemicals are toxic enough for the law to require the companies to put warning labels on anything they treat with them, and so I'm pretty sure they are poisonous, and I don't know about you, but I don't want to be ingesting them. But go ahead and ingest 50 treated seeds if you really want to find out.

Also, even a cursory look at wikipedia entries for Thiram and Captan should tell you all you need to know about ingesting them. They are toxic.

From the Thiram wikipedia page:


Acute Toxicity

Thiram is moderately toxic by ingestion, but it is highly toxic if inhaled. Acute exposure in humans may cause headaches, dizziness, fatigue, nausea, diarrhea and other gastrointestinal complaints. [5]

Thiram is irritating to the eyes, skin and respiratory tract. It is a skin sensitizer. Symptoms of acute inhalation exposure to thiram include itching, scratchy throat, hoarseness, sneezing, coughing, inflammation of the nose or throat, bronchitis, dizziness, headaches, fatigue, nausea, diarrhea and other gastro-intestinal complaints. Persons with chronic respiratory or skin disease are at increased risk from exposure to thiram.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiram#Acute_Toxicity

​


Captan:


Signs of toxicity - Animals

Some signs of captan poisoning include hypothermia, depression, diarrhea, weight loss, loss of appetite, and increased thirst.

Signs of toxicity - Humans

People who mixed captan products or worked in fields where captan had been applied reported eye and skin irritation. However, researchers could not determine whether these symptoms were from exposure to captan or other pesticides used in the fields.

A few human volunteers reported skin irritation and allergic reactions after captan was applied to their backs.
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/captangen.pdf


Captan is said to be low in toxicity (LD50), but would you really want to be ingesting it? I didn't think so. Somehow I think you are just nitpicking my posts again.
 
I have 4 seeds, crushed and soaking in rougly 3oz bottled water that I boiled to remove any possible chlorine. Its being kept in a dark drawer for tomorrow. I'll strain and drink this. Thanks for all the help guys, I'll post a trip report either tomorrow at night or friday.
 
Survived Abortion said:
Companies using Thiram on their seeds are legally required to put a warning on the outside of the packet that the seeds have been treated, and are unsuitable for consumption.
Click to expand...

That's the word I have heard all along. Other than the "planting only" warning of some smaller seed companies I have never saw a clearer warning on a seed packet. Most others say nothing other than an expiration date (ironically enough).

Lots of good info in those links you put up SB. This thread needed more info on the subject. Hopefully if anyone wants to utilize the seeds they do a good amount of research starting with this page.
 
Kipo said:
I have 4 seeds, crushed and soaking in rougly 3oz bottled water that I boiled to remove any possible chlorine. Its being kept in a dark drawer for tomorrow. I'll strain and drink this. Thanks for all the help guys, I'll post a trip report either tomorrow at night or friday.
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your first time, right? thats like the perfect starter dose in my opinion :)
 
:D so excited for it. One dumb question tho. The lsa/water extraction is usually reffered to as a cwe. Does the water have to be cold because i just stuffed it in my dresser and left it.
 
Survived Abortion said:
But those chemicals are toxic enough for the law to require the companies to put warning labels on anything they treat with them
Click to expand...

So anyone with a packet of your alleged treated seeds is going to know immediately whether they've got these chemicals on them or not?

Have you, or anyone in the last 40 years, seen a packet of morning glories with a warning about thiram or captan?

Also, even a cursory look at wikipedia entries for Thiram and Captan should tell you all you need to know about ingesting themThiram is moderately toxic by ingestion
Captan is said to be low in toxicity
Somehow I think you are just nitpicking my posts again.

Do you have the remotest bit of evidence to suggest that a morning glory seed has ever been treated with either of these two chemicals? Or are you simply spreading misinformation?
 
Ismene said:
Do you have the remotest bit of evidence to suggest that a morning glory seed has ever been treated with either of these two chemicals? Or are you simply spreading misinformation?
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If you really need me to explain this to you, then there are only two possibilities:

1. You are being an arsehole for the sake of it, as would be evident by your continous trolling of other posts and threads in this forum.

or

2. You are being willfully ignorant and refusing to apply common rational thinking and personal investigation to the situation. If you really don't understand now the simple facts and concepts presented here, then you probably never will.

Or a combination of the two.

I'm not going to explain myself to you again. I think I've provided more than enough information in the above posts to give you the answers you need, you can fill in the blanks yourself. It's quite obvious to anybody with even the slightest bit of logical intelligence.
 
I've decided to just take the whole thing as to not lose potency by not having done a cwe. Bottoms up everyone!
 
'trip' was very mild. Nothing noteworthy. Music enhancment, laziness, memory loss, all in small amounts. I'm gonna try with 8 seeds next time eating them straight up.
 
yeah sounds about right for 4. definitely better to start at that level though. doubling your dose might be a bit of a jump, but if you're feeling confident then i feel that you'll be fine. make sure to give at least a few days between trips, any sooner and tolerance will cause you to not get much of an effect.

also, "cold water extraction" typically refers to removing acetaminophen from opiate/oid pills. room temperature water should be fine for an LSA extraction. :)

oh yeah eating 8 seeds straight up is gonna cause quite abit of nausea/gastric disturbance. green tea is my preferred medicine for combating both nausea during the comeup and vasoconstriction during the peak. marijuana helps too ;)
 
thenightwatch said:
yeah sounds about right for 4. definitely better to start at that level though. doubling your dose might be a bit of a jump, but if you're feeling confident then i feel that you'll be fine. make sure to give at least a few days between trips, any sooner and tolerance will cause you to not get much of an effect.

also, "cold water extraction" typically refers to removing acetaminophen from opiate/oid pills. room temperature water should be fine for an LSA extraction. :)

oh yeah eating 8 seeds straight up is gonna cause quite abit of nausea/gastric disturbance. green tea is my preferred medicine for combating both nausea during the comeup and vasoconstriction during the peak. marijuana helps too ;)
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How long should I wait? Would I be fine for monday? Would am-2201 be a good sub for mj during my trip?
 
monday should be fine, yeah. AM-2201 might work as a sub for MJ, but MJ fixes nausea in a lot more ways than just CB1 agonism (which is all AM-2201 does).

still feelin a bit of an afterglow/body buzz from your dose today?
 
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