Women calling men creeps, is it sometimes about attention?

[Neuroprotection]

I think it is a really interesting issue, buuut it also can get to the "extreme ends" real quickly when discussed.
I have a 40-something professor at my school, who can easily pas as 30 or 35 maximum. He is a good guy, well-spoken, clean cut - so basically when someone tells you to image a stereotypical-old school professor, that is basically him. When you talk whit him, he can be a real nice person to kill some time - I do it quite often, the dude has so many stories to tell and just overall good to listen to, even when he rents about something.
Oh but when it comes to girls - he can be a awful peace of shit, and since we are on good turns, I even dare call him my friend, I like to signal it to him. So, for example, when we sit at the library and talk, he cannot take of his eyes some or even times-to-times one specific girl (and the poor soul don't have to wear stilettos and fishnets.) And naturally, there is nothing wrong with looking, but when the girls are happens to be around 18-20, I feel a strong sense of disgust rosing up in me (HE is in his forties, those girls are young enough to be his daughters) And when he starst talking about his dating life, how he cannot find a good partner... no wonder, with a 20 years old who is not on your level, both in the case of emotional maturity or just generally speaking in life? Geez, I wonder what can be the issue.
I just brought him up as an example, but my point is - it is hard to defend someone, and state he is not a creep if you have not seen him in certain situations. Since we talk about guys interested in girls, I think for many man it is hard to see or understand why their best bud got called an asshole or creep, when in their eyes, he is just a normal dude - what he is totally can be, but whit you. Since he is not sexually interested in you, of course he will not pull the same bullshit on you as he might does with girls.

On the "good looking guys cannot be creeps because of their looks" bullshit since I read some comments bringing it up: There was a really old video, what for the love of god I just cannot seem to find, but if I happen to find it, I will definitely link it. The same guy, same monologue about how banks are robbing people, and you should put your money in whatever funding system he is also the part of - one time he talks about this shit dressed up as a homeless, another time he wears a suit and clams to be a high ranking member of the company. Would you guess in witch case people stopped and listens to him? I think the people who calmed that bias based on looks ("lookism" or "pretty privilege") is a new type of shit, just did not realized it yet that we, as people do it all the time, and not just the attractive girls who you try to hit on. If you have good looks, you have a better chance in most things: dressing up for a job interview, for a date (both things we hope benefit from in some way) even for oral exams at the uni - if they "outside" is nice, it is a good way to make sure they are interested in the "inside" too.
So, yes it is totally not fair, not just in dating but in any other aspect in life, but if you are looking good, you mostly likely can get away with much more bullshit or have more opportunities. But when it comes to interacting whit people, especially judging what other may find creepy, it becomes hella slopy, especially when you don't know the parties involved that well.

Thank you for that. you some very interesting points here. The point you made about the professor is particularly relevant. yes, it is natural for older men to like considerably younger women, especially those aged between 18 and 20/Early 20s. I know for a fact, many much older men are incredibly attracted to 18/20-year-old girls but they would never admit it. however, as you said, the behaviour of some men like your professor friend is truly creepy and would probably create a feeling of disgust, even in other men attracted to such young women. for me, it’s not so much the age difference that’s creepy, but rather the way A man approaches a woman. as for myself, I am 28 years old and my preference would be for women in their early 20s. I feel they have the balance of being grown-up enough to control their own lives, but they still have a good level of Pleasant immaturity/silliness/boisterous energy about them. I guess opposites attract in some aspects, I am an introvert and though I I act professionally, I am still very emotionally immature. that’s why am really attracted to extremely extroverted, outgoing, feminine, but slightly dominant girls Who like me, don’t want to take major responsibility.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

Thank you for that. you some very interesting points here. The point you made about the professor is particularly relevant. yes, it is natural for older men to like considerably younger women, especially those aged between 18 and 20/Early 20s. I know for a fact, many much older men are incredibly attracted to 18/20-year-old girls but they would never admit it. however, as you said, the behaviour of some men like your professor friend is truly creepy and would probably create a feeling of disgust, even in other men attracted to such young women. for me, it’s not so much the age difference that’s creepy, but rather the way A man approaches a woman. as for myself, I am 28 years old and my preference would be for women in their early 20s. I feel they have the balance of being grown-up enough to control their own lives, but they still have a good level of Pleasant immaturity/silliness/boisterous energy about them. I guess opposites attract in some aspects, I am an introvert and though I I act professionally, I am still very emotionally immature. that’s why am really attracted to extremely extroverted, outgoing, feminine, but slightly dominant girls Who like me, don’t want to take major responsibility.

I'm happy if I wrote something useful :D

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with finding something pretty or attractive (between the lines of a sane mind, naturally) but when you are so deep in your own delusional word, that you cannot see the problems sitting right in front of your face (saying "all woman are crazy" when all the woman you dated are young enough to be your daughters... Yeah, the dude has some serious problems)

I also happen to be a "age gap" relationship, if you can call 5 year an actual age gap (Me 21, bf 26)

 

[Neuroprotection]

I'm happy if I wrote something useful :D

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with finding something pretty or attractive (between the lines of a sane mind, naturally) but when you are so deep in your own delusional word, that you cannot see the problems sitting right in front of your face (saying "all woman are crazy" when all the woman you dated are young enough to be your daughters... Yeah, the dude has some serious problems)

I also happen to be a "age gap" relationship, if you can call 5 year an actual age gap (Me 21, bf 26)

Thank you. Everyone here has contributed something valuable. Just remembered something about the term creep which I forgot to mention before. I hate when it is weaponised by other people either out of jealousy or even worse because they disagree/dislike something you desire. in case you’ve not seen my posts on other threads, basically, I have no interest in traditional sexual intercourse. rather, I wish girls would step on me with their bare feet and wipe their bare feet all over me as well as spitting aggressively in my face, with as much saliva, mucus and phlegm as they can cough up. hypocriticaly, though probably beyond their emotional control, many people of both sexes would probably consider that freaky or creepy. yet the same people would be happy to lick each other’s anuses for hours on end. of course, I’ve never told anyone about my desires in person, but I’ve indirectly brought up the conversation with family and friends, pretending that I’ve heard someone else has such desires and were arguing about it. everyone I spoke to, including my family Who are Conservative Muslims, still found the idea of a foot and spit fetish much much worse than so-called‘ eating arse‘. another weird thing i’ve noticed is that whilst fetishes are still somewhat taboo, and foot fetishes are by no means widely accepted in my social circles, people don’t seem to mind them as much. in my carefully engineered conversations with people, they expressed the very strange opinion that A guy kissing or even licking a girls shoes or letting her trample him with high heels is dirty, kinky and very weird. however, if she does it with her bare feet meaning no shoes and no socks then they view that as ultimate humiliation and absolutely disgusting. likewise, they saw it as kinky and weird for a Guy who wants a girl to urinate on his face but absolutely disgusting and creepy if he wants her to spit in his face instead.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

Thank you. Everyone here has contributed something valuable. Just remembered something about the term creep which I forgot to mention before. I hate when it is weaponised by other people either out of jealousy or even worse because they disagree/dislike something you desire. in case you’ve not seen my posts on other threads, basically, I have no interest in traditional sexual intercourse. rather, I wish girls would step on me with their bare feet and wipe their bare feet all over me as well as spitting aggressively in my face, with as much saliva, mucus and phlegm as they can cough up. hypocriticaly, though probably beyond their emotional control, many people of both sexes would probably consider that freaky or creepy. yet the same people would be happy to lick each other’s anuses for hours on end. of course, I’ve never told anyone about my desires in person, but I’ve indirectly brought up the conversation with family and friends, pretending that I’ve heard someone else has such desires and were arguing about it. everyone I spoke to, including my family Who are Conservative Muslims, still found the idea of a foot and spit fetish much much worse than so-called‘ eating arse‘. another weird thing i’ve noticed is that whilst fetishes are still somewhat taboo, and foot fetishes are by no means widely accepted in my social circles, people don’t seem to mind them as much. in my carefully engineered conversations with people, they expressed the very strange opinion that A guy kissing or even licking a girls shoes or letting her trample him with high heels is dirty, kinky and very weird. however, if she does it with her bare feet meaning no shoes and no socks then they view that as ultimate humiliation and absolutely disgusting. likewise, they saw it as kinky and weird for a Guy who wants a girl to urinate on his face but absolutely disgusting and creepy if he wants her to spit in his face instead.

There is a book Justin J. Lehmiller - Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life what actually goes into many different, "stranger" fetish too. It has a few chapter just only for the different ways how may you want to talk about different stuff with your partner/s.

I personally never really wanted to share my own fantasies, kinks or fetishes whit anyone besides my partner (Can I ask why do you want your parents opinion? Like, don't get my wrong, but this is typically not a topic one would share sittin around the dining table) but I'm also kinda lucky, since I don't ask for nothing out of ordinary most of the time, and when I do, my bf is usually on board whit it.

If you ask, me I would say most people find "eating pussy/ass" more ordinary (we even have a word for "oral sex"), than lets say foot fetish because we already see those body parts as sex organs. But, for example the female breast are nothing more complicate or different on the outside than the male ones - yet, due to sexualization, we see theme as sexual even when they are not a sex organs. Who knows what will happen with other body parts in the future, but I would say 'till foot doesn't go thought the same thing as the female breast did, it most likely will be seen as a "wired thing to be attracted" because it is not wildly accepted as a sexual part of the body.

 

[Neuroprotection]

There is a book Justin J. Lehmiller - Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life what actually goes into many different, "stranger" fetish too. It has a few chapter just only for the different ways how may you want to talk about different stuff with your partner/s.

I personally never really wanted to share my own fantasies, kinks or fetishes whit anyone besides my partner (Can I ask why do you want your parents opinion? Like, don't get my wrong, but this is typically not a topic one would share sittin around the dining table) but I'm also kinda lucky, since I don't ask for nothing out of ordinary most of the time, and when I do, my bf is usually on board whit it.

If you ask, me I would say most people find "eating pussy/ass" more ordinary (we even have a word for "oral sex"), than lets say foot fetish because we already see those body parts as sex organs. But, for example the female breast are nothing more complicate or different on the outside than the male ones - yet, due to sexualization, we see theme as sexual even when they are not a sex organs. Who knows what will happen with other body parts in the future, but I would say 'till foot doesn't go thought the same thing as the female breast did, it most likely will be seen as a "wired thing to be attracted" because it is not wildly accepted as a sexual part of the body.

Thanks so much for the Book suggestion and for your opinions. regarding the point about bringing it up with my family, that was quite a few years ago when I was about 20 and I was wondering if other people had similar desires to mine. of course, I very carefully engineered the conversation at the right moment, for example, when my more outgoing, Perhaps stupidly confident brothers would start talking about sex and what they would want to do. since I’ve never normally talked about sex and I’m quite shy and introverted along with the fact no one has any idea which individual girl or type of girls I like, everyone would listen when I speak. it wouldn’t really be round the dining table, but more likely when we were sat watching TV and a sexual topic came up. I would then slip in my questions and explain my desires, but obviously not saying it was me. Instead I would pretend I overheard someone else with those desires.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

Thanks so much for the Book suggestion and for your opinions. regarding the point about bringing it up with my family, that was quite a few years ago when I was about 20 and I was wondering if other people had similar desires to mine. of course, I very carefully engineered the conversation at the right moment, for example, when my more outgoing, Perhaps stupidly confident brothers would start talking about sex and what they would want to do. since I’ve never normally talked about sex and I’m quite shy and introverted along with the fact no one has any idea which individual girl or type of girls I like, everyone would listen when I speak. it wouldn’t really be round the dining table, but more likely when we were sat watching TV and a sexual topic came up. I would then slip in my questions and explain my desires, but obviously not saying it was me. Instead I would pretend I overheard someone else with those desires.

Oh I see. Don't be hard on yourself just because they don't share the same ideas as you - everything is nice and dandy if your partner is consenting to it, the rest of the people can fuck themselves.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Oh I see. Don't be hard on yourself just because they don't share the same ideas as you - everything is nice and dandy if your partner is consenting to it, the rest of the people can fuck themselves.

That’s exactly my thinking but thank you so much anyway. as a Muslim, I do have to wait for marriage to have these desires fulfilled, but hopefully I won’t have to wait long now. also, God willing I hope my desires should serve me and my future wife very well. apparently, a lot of relationship problems arise in Muslim and Arab communities like mine because the husband constantly wants sex and the wife is tired. then, when the wife wants sex and the husband is tired, he simply disregards her. thankfully, I’m not that type of guy, but my desires come with the added benefit of being easy and hopefully fun for my wife to fulfil, especially if she doesn’t feel like sex.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

That’s exactly my thinking but thank you so much anyway. as a Muslim, I do have to wait for marriage to have these desires fulfilled, but hopefully I won’t have to wait long now. also, God willing I hope my desires should serve me and my future wife very well. apparently, a lot of relationship problems arise in Muslim and Arab communities like mine because the husband constantly wants sex and the wife is tired. then, when the wife wants sex and the husband is tired, he simply disregards her. thankfully, I’m not that type of guy, but my desires come with the added benefit of being easy and hopefully fun for my wife to fulfil, especially if she doesn’t feel like sex.

I fear I don't know enough to say anything helpful, I sadly don't know enough about islam to say something useful - and I don't want to talk shit. I hope you will find a girl whom you will have a happy and healthy (sex) life

 

[Neuroprotection]

I fear I don't know enough to say anything helpful, I sadly don't know enough about islam to say something useful - and I don't want to talk shit. I hope you will find a girl whom you will have a happy and healthy (sex) life

No worries. Feel free to say whatever you want. as a Muslim, I would never be offended Buy anything anyone asks or says regarding Islam even if it is highly critical. as long as it’s done respectfully, I have no problem. there’s probably not really much to say here regarding Islam anyway, but I’m making the point for the sake of others as well, people shouldn’t have fear discussing religion.

 

[golego55]

Next time I see you in tight pants I'll start complementing the package and telling you your ass looks nice
Damn babe your pecs are lookin lickable in that shirt

"Shew us yer pits!!!"

 

[Jen X]

For me personally it has NOTHING to do with their looks. Some guy's will come on strong and not take the hint if you're not interested. When i was single and met a guy if they started talking about sex or certain innuendos towards it i was instantly not interested. Some are nice about it but there is alot of creeps out there who will follow you to your car etc.. That's creepy

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

For me personally it has NOTHING to do with their looks. Some guy's will come on strong and not take the hint if you're not interested. When i was single and met a guy if they started talking about sex or certain innuendos towards it i was instantly not interested. Some are nice about it but there is alot of creeps out there who will follow you to your car etc.. That's creepy

Yea I’ve been followed out to my car, ect. too

 

[Neuroprotection]

For me personally it has NOTHING to do with their looks. Some guy's will come on strong and not take the hint if you're not interested. When i was single and met a guy if they started talking about sex or certain innuendos towards it i was instantly not interested. Some are nice about it but there is alot of creeps out there who will follow you to your car etc.. That's creepy

So true. like I said, at the beginning of this thread, the word creep does suit some people, especially when they don’t know their boundaries. Although people say it’s not the same when it’s a girl excessively flirting with a guy, I think pushing for sex when you’ve just met each other Will either creep the other person out or at least lower your value in their eyes. I guess it comes across as desperate, somewhat animalistic and uncivilised.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

No worries. Feel free to say whatever you want. as a Muslim, I would never be offended Buy anything anyone asks or says regarding Islam even if it is highly critical. as long as it’s done respectfully, I have no problem. there’s probably not really much to say here regarding Islam anyway, but I’m making the point for the sake of others as well, people shouldn’t have fear discussing religion.

Good to hear that So before anything; if I say anything wrong or bad, nothing is intentional, I'm just a moron and I'm sorry.
I would highly recommend to bring up these fetishes to you future partner before everything, if possible. Maybe she will not be that open at the start, but I think these kind of stuff (non-vanilla sex needs :D I just don't know, you know what I mean) mostly false on how you word your needs. My bf is the most vanilla guy in the world, and I know there is just stuff he would never do, even if cry my eyes out and that is okay - I would never want to force him into anything he is not 100% comfortable from the start - but, after being together for a few years now, I can decide what kind of things are worth to bring up to him. I'm usually quit direct, and ask him "Hey, would you mind try out this toy?" or "What do you think about this idea?". We are at the "light-BDSM" level as I like to call it, so it is a bit more on the "traditional" or "less shocking" non-vanilla stuff, but maybe it could be a good starting point for you too?
Ask her is she would be into some role-play/dominant-submissive stuff, there are some great toys too what put emphasis on one partner being the leader, and bondage (if done well and safely) is just fucking great, and has a strong dom/sub effect. And if everything goes fine, and you guys are both into it, foot/spit is not as a hard reach from here as it would be from vanilla sex.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

I do have to wait for marriage to have these desires fulfilled,

This is something I see as a massive problem with marriage in strictly orthodox religious communities (whether Islamic, Christian or Jewish). For one, any contact with the opposite sex is automatically sexualised. Like, don't ever sit and talk to a girl without a chaperone because you both might get 'ideas' so it's automatically 'suspect'.
If you cannot socialise casually and without the implication of potential sexual intent, how do you learn to relate to the opposite sex as just ordinary humans, instead of being this 'other' that you must constantly remind yourself you're not allowed to desire.

Secondly, sexuality is a fundamental human drive and it's not healthy to suppress it. Plus because it's such a powerful drive, if you seriously want to wait until marriage then HOW many young guys get hitched up the second they turn 18 to the next best girl they find hot, because after some 6 years of puberty and raging hormones they're so desperate to FINALLY get their end away -? Don't tell me that with all that unnatural self-deprivation purely just gagging for sex ISN'T a major incentive to marriage in that situation. Which reduces the intended sacrament of marriage to an 'access to sex' ticket.

You then get married at a time in your development when neither you nor your partner is likely emotionally mature enough for a long-term relationship, because there's only so long you can resist a biological imperative. You haven't really gotten a chance to get to know each other in any depth, because that would of necessity involve prolonged periods by yourselves, which is not allowed. In essence you're marrying a 'best guess' cat-in-a-bag. You may find you have wildly differing levels of libido, or personal tastes when it comes to sex that are in no way compatible. But now you're miserably shackled together for life.

In my opinion you should not only have slept with a prospective partner multiple times, but also have LIVED with them 24/7 for awhile before you commit. That way you will never confuse lust for a body with love for the person.
Also the most alluring creature alive might make you have homicidal thoughts 5 years down the line for the way they squeeze their toothpaste. Often it's the little everyday habits that drive us up the wall about someone, more than any 'major' character flaws.

the husband constantly wants sex and the wife is tired.

Or maybe just unfulfilled -? If intercourse is a chore for her because she's been told to not expect to enjoy it and never had a chance to GET to enjoy it, she might well grow tired of it.
A general hallmark of strict religiosity is that women are taught they're not even supposed to HAVE a libido or to desire and enjoy sex, and that if they do, they're a wanton harlot and have something morally wrong with them, are corrupted by the devil and whatnot. And the men are certainly not generally told that their wife has the same right to fulfilment as them. She's just supposed to lie back and take it. As a result many women brought up that way never even learn how to pleasure themselves (because only 'dirty' women masturbate), never mind asking their husband to satisfy them.

PS also I've honestly never understood why an almighty creator of the entire universe would be intimately concerned with what I do with my private parts. or why for that matter he clearly apparently objects to us being the sexual animals he created us to be.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Good to hear that So before anything; if I say anything wrong or bad, nothing is intentional, I'm just a moron and I'm sorry.
I would highly recommend to bring up these fetishes to you future partner before everything, if possible. Maybe she will not be that open at the start, but I think these kind of stuff (non-vanilla sex needs :D I just don't know, you know what I mean) mostly false on how you word your needs. My bf is the most vanilla guy in the world, and I know there is just stuff he would never do, even if cry my eyes out and that is okay - I would never want to force him into anything he is not 100% comfortable from the start - but, after being together for a few years now, I can decide what kind of things are worth to bring up to him. I'm usually quit direct, and ask him "Hey, would you mind try out this toy?" or "What do you think about this idea?". We are at the "light-BDSM" level as I like to call it, so it is a bit more on the "traditional" or "less shocking" non-vanilla stuff, but maybe it could be a good starting point for you too?
Ask her is she would be into some role-play/dominant-submissive stuff, there are some great toys too what put emphasis on one partner being the leader, and bondage (if done well and safely) is just fucking great, and has a strong dom/sub effect. And if everything goes fine, and you guys are both into it, foot/spit is not as a hard reach from here as it would be from vanilla sex.

Thank you so much for all your advice and nothing you said was wrong. The thing is, I’m quite a strange case when it comes to BDSM, in that I’m not really into things like bondage or sex toys. Though I have have never been in a sexual relationship, I imagine I would want any role-play to be as realistic as possible. for example, I’m not really into being tied up or dragged by a lease. instead, I would love it if she casually uses me as a foot rest while she watches TV, steps on me with her bare feet without a care in the world when walking past, demanding foot massages whenever she wants and randomly spitting in my face when I least expect it. I will be especially happy if she aims for my eyes. i’m hoping I can work this into the relationship so it becomes a Way of life for us as long as she is happy with it.

 

[Neuroprotection]

This is something I see as a massive problem with marriage in strictly orthodox religious communities (whether Islamic, Christian or Jewish). For one, any contact with the opposite sex is automatically sexualised. Like, don't ever sit and talk to a girl without a chaperone because you both might get 'ideas' so it's automatically 'suspect'.
If you cannot socialise casually and without the implication of potential sexual intent, how do you learn to relate to the opposite sex as just ordinary humans, instead of being this 'other' that you must constantly remind yourself you're not allowed to desire.

Secondly, sexuality is a fundamental human drive and it's not healthy to suppress it. Plus because it's such a powerful drive, if you seriously want to wait until marriage then HOW many young guys get hitched up the second they turn 18 to the next best girl they find hot, because after some 6 years of puberty and raging hormones they're so desperate to FINALLY get their end away -? Don't tell me that with all that unnatural self-deprivation purely just gagging for sex ISN'T a major incentive to marriage in that situation. Which reduces the intended sacrament of marriage to an 'access to sex' ticket.

You then get married at a time in your development when neither you nor your partner is likely emotionally mature enough for a long-term relationship, because there's only so long you can resist a biological imperative. You haven't really gotten a chance to get to know each other in any depth, because that would of necessity involve prolonged periods by yourselves, which is not allowed. In essence you're marrying a 'best guess' cat-in-a-bag. You may find you have wildly differing levels of libido, or personal tastes when it comes to sex that are in no way compatible. But now you're miserably shackled together for life.

In my opinion you should not only have slept with a prospective partner multiple times, but also have LIVED with them 24/7 for awhile before you commit. That way you will never confuse lust for a body with love for the person.
Also the most alluring creature alive might make you have homicidal thoughts 5 years down the line for the way they squeeze their toothpaste. Often it's the little everyday habits that drive us up the wall about someone, more than any 'major' character flaws.

Or maybe just unfulfilled -? If intercourse is a chore for her because she's been told to not expect to enjoy it and never had a chance to GET to enjoy it, she might well grow tired of it.
A general hallmark of strict religiosity is that women are taught they're not even supposed to HAVE a libido or to desire and enjoy sex, and that if they do, they're a wanton harlot and have something morally wrong with them, are corrupted by the devil and whatnot. And the men are certainly not generally told that their wife has the same right to fulfilment as them. She's just supposed to lie back and take it. As a result many women brought up that way never even learn how to pleasure themselves (because only 'dirty' women masturbate), never mind asking their husband to satisfy them.

PS also I've honestly never understood why an almighty creator of the entire universe would be intimately concerned with what I do with my private parts. or why for that matter he clearly apparently objects to us being the sexual animals he created us to be.

Thank you. You’ve raised many important points. I know religious law is very restrictive compared to current liberal morality, but most of the problems you site, at least in relation to Islam, come from muslim societies rather than the religion itself. I can’t speak for other religions because my knowledge on them is very limited. in regards to Islam, A couple are actually allowed to get to know each other before marriage although admittedly, sex outside marriage is not allowed. nevertheless, there is no Islamic injunction against discussing sexual preferences but often it is the society Who decide to play God and impose their own rules. to answer your question about why casual sex outside marriage is prohibited, The main overarching reason according to Islamic belief is that we are here for a test and we must obey God’s law. nevertheless, that doesn’t prevent people from entering into short term marriages with the intention of getting to know each other both personally and sexually. The good thing about this is that if a pregnancy occurs whilst the couple are married, it is mandatory for the man to provide for the childs Financial needs until it grows up, even if he breaks up with the woman. unfortunately, like I said before, Muslim societies have used their ultra social conservatism to prevent such marriages from taking place and made it seem like religious law. The same goes for so-called honour killings which are considered as murder under Islamic law. nevertheless, in these societies, most religious scholars will not speak out against it and some will deviously try to make it look like part of Islam.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Thank you. You’ve raised many important points. I know religious law is very restrictive compared to current liberal morality, but most of the problems you site, at least in relation to Islam, come from muslim societies rather than the religion itself. I can’t speak for other religions because my knowledge on them is very limited. in regards to Islam, A couple are actually allowed to get to know each other before marriage although admittedly, sex outside marriage is not allowed. nevertheless, there is no Islamic injunction against discussing sexual preferences but often it is the society Who decide to play God and impose their own rules. to answer your question about why casual sex outside marriage is prohibited, The main overarching reason according to Islamic belief is that we are here for a test and we must obey God’s law. nevertheless, that doesn’t prevent people from entering into short term marriages with the intention of getting to know each other both personally and sexually. The good thing about this is that if a pregnancy occurs whilst the couple are married, it is mandatory for the man to provide for the childs Financial needs until it grows up, even if he breaks up with the woman. unfortunately, like I said before, Muslim societies have used their ultra social conservatism to prevent such marriages from taking place and made it seem like religious law. The same goes for so-called honour killings which are considered as murder under Islamic law. nevertheless, in these societies, most religious scholars will not speak out against it and some will deviously try to make it look like part of Islam.

I think the thing I just cannot get behind in regards to Abrahamic religious views of sex is how it's commonly BOTH demonised AND sanctified to a ridiculous degree.

Like if you have ANY sexual desires, or (heaven forbid!) any actual sexual ENCOUNTERS before marriage, then that's 'evil' and 'sinful' and 'temptation' and 'of the devil' etc.
Whereas in marriage it's this impossibly elevated, 'sanctified' thing.

As far as I, as an atheist, am concerned, sex is neither inherently degrading nor inherently sacred.

To me, sex is merely a basic instinctive drive. It's only as meaningful as your connection with the other person is. If you have a one-night stand that's the equivalent of getting a fast food meal. What you're getting just hits the spot at that particular time.

I also do not view pleasure purely for the sake of pleasure as morally bad. Which does not deny the fact that experiencing this pleasure with someone you also love, can't be a transcendent and even spiritual experience.

To continue the food analogy, a home-cooked meal prepared by someone you care about is going to tickle more than your tastebuds. But that doesn't mean that a cheap burger won't or shouldn't temporarily feed your appetite.

I just think humanity would be healthier if we didn't try to reserve sexual activity for people who had some arbitrary official 'good to go' label slapped on their personal connection. To my way of thinking the religious perspective both makes sex needlessly guilt-ridden, as well as overburdened with supposed 'transcendent' meaning.

 

[gordonliddy]

throughout my life in education, i’ve heard women regularly refer to men Who show an interest in them as creepy or creeps

This is primarily an Anglo thing, although I think plenty of Arabic cultures discourage men from interacting with women overmuch.

If one but takes a few steps into Latin or Mediterannean culture, you will basically never hear women complaining about getting attention.

I would say that overall women are attention seeking, and that outside of the psychedelic community at least 70% of what women do is to get attention. Probably instinctual behavior - dimophric species where the females end up being the pretty ones and preening themselves.

 

[thujone]

calling a guy a creep is just a way to demean men. women love to demean men. i've been called worse things loudly and in public by a woman who called me ten minutes later to hook up.

the one thing i've noticed is that it's mostly women from broken homes who are comfortable openly demeaning men. i don't think i've ever seen a woman from a healthy family background rip into a guy in public, even if he's being a pushy jerkwad.