Site Feedback Why is Bluelight ashamed of the Lounge yet not ashamed of The Shrine?

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Happy New Year Smoky!

They closed the Lounge Feedback Thread!

That was my one & only Lounge! That one thread! It's closed! Now, I'm homeless!

I guess I'm going to have to lurk in the Support Forum... I don't know where to go :\
 
herbavore said:
Regardless, I still feel that a thread that is titled For Any Young Visitor New to This Site should exist in NMI.
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Holy hell I'm randomly scrolling Bluelight at 4:35am and see this hahahaha good lord who saw that one coming was about to pass out in 2 mins let's surely get something going!
 
Lolol I didn't know that.
Sometimes when unsure or lost we find new places to go. Oh the horror! :)

I thought you already started the Lounge Rejects thread though Johnny, is it open still? Let's expand there perhaps.

I have a felt sense whatever is going on with the new Lounge might go back to how it was, as it doesn't make sense to me - so I have not joined yet. I might just wait and see. Sometimes things just fall back into place. It all seemed a bit much to me, that's when I step back a bit for a while

Happy New Year to you too!
And everyone above,
~Smoky <3
 
Smoky

I started the Lounge Rejects thread, but it got merged into this one. I believe The Taco Forum & The Pub advocacy is in this one to :)

There was also a Lounge Update thread with a lot of constructive discussion, but that one got closed.

Anyway, I decided to send a request to join the Lounge Rats forum. I wanted to see if I'd actually get accepted & what The Lounge looked it. I got approved right away, and The Lounge looks exactly the same.

So, I now can't advocate new forums for the Rejects since I'm a member to the Lounge Rats forum. Unless if I became an outlaw in The Lounge and got banned :D

My curiosity made me a Reject sell-out. I kind of wish I didn't get accepted. Now, I can't bitch about anything :\.
 
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ParappaTheRapper said:
How do Bluelighters find out about a death? Something like an obituary??
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That's the thing we only find out about the deaths of established members who had made friends here. I personally have 4 bluelighters who live in 4 different states as facebook friends. I can think of 3-4 off the top of my head who very well may have passed but no one seems to know for sure.


I feel like getting rid of the lounge would be a gross overreaction to some but hurt. I've never posted in there because I found my social bluelight click in the drug focus forums. But I'm not one to really "play" on the internet here to inform and be informed. But that's not the same for everybody nor should it be. If someone gets offended in the lounge there are like what 10 other non drug focus forums to post in? Plus half the people who post in the lounge never leave it. So it's not like they are harassing you all over the site.
Btw herbavore that may have been the best way I have ever seen bluelight described!
 
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I must be missing out. A Pub thread, and Taco advocacy? lol
I'm cutting back on caffeine and have not been very active lately.. apparently :\

And of course you would be accepted Johnny, into the Lounge Rats. Why wouldn't you… ? ha!

Well then. who is going to do the advocating now, for rejects forum?
I could step in I suppose, but let me apply first just to be sure (to be rejected). ;)
Maybe if I break some rules I'll be rejected, then I can moderate the rejects. :)
Everyone needs someone, (tears).

<3
 
Smoky

The Lounge Rat Rebels & Rejects needs someone to lead them. You may be the One, the Chosen One.

I am now a Lounge Rat, and I hate it. I'm a complete sell-out.

You may have the power to establish The Pub or The Taco Forum

Many people are counting on you Smoky :) Do what is best for the greater good!


papasomni

Please deny all Lounge Rats membership request from llama! That would be great!
 
WTF? who and where do I write this letter to the "MODERATORS" so I can join this mysterious place you all call the lounge
 
Laika said:
I used to hate Busty.

I guess I just never "got" him until now.
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Busty is my dude.

Shocking in the 30+ pages of threads about this I'm only mentioned once. I deserve a lot more of the blame for this mess, and I sincerely apologize to all my rats out there. It's been five years since I was on staff suggesting changes to the lounge but shrug maybe that's the pace they move at. Who knows what happened after my mod group got flushed out five years ago but I certainly didn't want this, certainly didn't push for this and I still think the 50 post requirement was one of the best things to happen so no apologies for that one.

On Busty's point though. He's 100% right. I think it's absolutely repulsive how many staff members are in the shrine. I also think it's absolutely despicable that the shrine is at the very bottom of the forum absolutely forgotten and laid out like BoBL. Who thinks that's "respectful remembrance?" Please, show me one person, alasdair, who thinks it's respectful remembrance for a staff member like tobala. Because I need to punch that person. I think it's radically disrespectful and either needs to be scrapped entirely or way more forceful and in your face. I do think I should be shocked every time I see one of tobala's posts - not just because he's a dead administrator, but yeah, maybe he should have DEAD STAFF under his name and a scary avatar. Dying from drugs should be frightening! And staff should stop doing it because not only is it terribly gauche but it directly flies in the face of what we're apparently trying to do here, and staff should be better than that, and yeah, a better example.

I'm removed from this now, I barely come to this site and spend most of my time in the fashion thread, and i won't be "joining the lounge" (do i even have to as crew?) because activist lounginating or laziness or something but damn y'all. what the fuck is the point of this website? are you trying to fold into MAPS? i cannot fathom the end game here. i'm past the point of this site being vital to me but i won't deny that i loved this place, loved the lounge, and still give a shit about a bunch of people that moved in and out of here and a lot more of these people who are fucking dead. shit. i've been living with a fellow bluelight moderator for five years now. i'm working on meeting my class of 2009 lounge moderators (only three more to go -- no idea how i'll see busty, maybe we'll meet halfway) and i can't deny that this site, specifically the lounge, has done great things for me.

fucking gay
 
^ can you answer for me the question that i've asked busty 3 times now (in this thread now closed so we can focus discussion here) and he's chosen to ignore?

some people (bluelighters, moderators and even an administrator) chose to ignore bl's wealth of information* and ended up in hospital or, worse, dead. how does the responsibility for their actions rest with bl and not they, themselves?

our goal is lasting change that sees the lounge as a thriving social forum with a complexion and culture of its own. as a bluelight forum, the lounge is part of a greater community and is subject to the community rules and guidelines in the same way as every other other forum.

the suggestion that the site ownership or administration want to close or suffocate the lounge is inaccurate and any discussion around that idea is a distraction.

the bl owners and senior staff believe that this lasting change won't happen if we don't solve the problem publicly and with the buy-in of lounge staff and community. we do not believe that a model that hides the forum content behind a subscription is the appropriate path to the goal. as a result, the change implemented on the 29th (to the subscription model) will be rolled back. i.e the lounge will revert to a forum open to all bluelighters, accessed exactly as it was before the 29th. the current lounge guidelines and the blua are in effect and will be enforced.

that said, there is a bottom line: hate speech is not and will not be tolerated in this community and this position is not up for debate.

from here, we'll have a discussion about how the goal is achieved. the roll-back likely won't happen until monday now.

alasdair
 
*i understand that they may not have chosen to ignore anything. they may have acted as safely as they thought they could and still died. my point on responsibility stands.

alasdair
 
Kenickie said:
On Busty's point though. He's 100% right. I think it's absolutely repulsive how many staff members are in the shrine. I also think it's absolutely despicable that the shrine is at the very bottom of the forum absolutely forgotten and laid out like BoBL. Who thinks that's "respectful remembrance?" Please, show me one person, alasdair, who thinks it's respectful remembrance for a staff member like tobala. Because I need to punch that person. I think it's radically disrespectful and either needs to be scrapped entirely or way more forceful and in your face. I do think I should be shocked every time I see one of tobala's posts - not just because he's a dead administrator, but yeah, maybe he should have DEAD STAFF under his name and a scary avatar. Dying from drugs should be frightening! And staff should stop doing it because not only is it terribly gauche but it directly flies in the face of what we're apparently trying to do here, and staff should be better than that, and yeah, a better example.
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I don't really understand the insistence that moderators be somehow above the vulnerability of abuse and addiction, or even an inebriated bad decision. Moderators generally came to this site like almost everyone else did--to get information on drugs. Taking drugs is risky and one of the risks is that you have no way of knowing how you personally will respond to any given substance or any given combination or duration of use. I know this from my own life experience--3 siblings that all abused drugs fairly similarly in our teens, two walked away scott free and one an addict for life. Were we smarter than he was? No way. Of my two sons, both experimenting in the same way, one with vulnerabilities the other never had, one surviving and one that did not. All it takes to be a moderator on here is 1,000 posts and an understanding of the rules of the forum. You don't take a mental health test, you don't get screened for drugs. And as I said before, some of my favorite moderators have been/are addicts. Their struggle is neither "stupid" nor "reckless". If you have not yourself struggled with addiction or the addiction of someone that you love and know very well (lucky you), it is easy to think, "they should have known better".

MAPS and our affiliation with MAPS is becoming somewhat of a scapegoat for this topic. I don't think that is fair. This dialogue has been going on long before that alliance was made.

I am sincerely interested to know how you feel the Shrine could be more respectful? My son is dead as much from shame and hopelessness as he is dead from the drugs he used to escape from or mitigate those feelings. The last thing I want to see in his shrine is someone telling him in death as they always did in life, what a failure he was for the way he lived. I share your hope that his death, and all the other deaths represented in the Shrine, will act as warnings. From the many PMs I have received from people, I think they do to the extent that they can. Most of us don't heed warnings that come by way of other peoples experience unfortunately--especially when young.

I am probably getting way too involved in this part of the discussion which is taking away focus from the issue of TL itself. Sorry for that. If anyone wants to discuss this aspect more I'm happy to do it via PM. I am genuinely interested in points of view that are not my own but I don't want to further clutter the thread with my reactions about the Shrine<3.
 
just got linked to this discussion from the lounge. i haven't read the whole thread, just the first post and half this last page. i gotta say, though -- WTF Busty.

i know you're a dentist and not a surgeon with actual lives in your hands, but your question is basically like asking -- "if a heart surgeon took the Hippocratic Oath, then why does he make his surgical success/fatality ratio public?"
 
alasdairm said:
^ can you answer for me the question that i've asked busty 3 times now (in this thread now closed so we can focus discussion here) and he's chosen to ignore?

some people (bluelighters, moderators and even an administrator) chose to ignore bl's wealth of information* and ended up in hospital or, worse, dead. how does the responsibility for their actions rest with bl and not they, themselves?
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shrug. stop promoting people to senior staff who aren't from the lounge. no dead lounge moderators since i've been around. it's a hard enough place to moderate sober, you can't be beyond fucked up all the time to watch it. but again, Busty is right, with the exception of papa and I guess...animal_cookie? rats are not trusted to have keys. i'd say EADD is the same but with more sourcing and different time zones, but i'm pretty sure that's what Evad was moderating and he's dead so i'm not sure. i've never been in there but i always thought the EADD mods were lounge mod kin.

our goal is lasting change that sees the lounge as a thriving social forum with a complexion and culture of its own. as a bluelight forum, the lounge is part of a greater community and is subject to the community rules and guidelines in the same way as every other other forum.
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and? this is a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. i work in PR too alasdair.

the suggestion that the site ownership or administration want to close or suffocate the lounge is inaccurate and any discussion around that idea is a distraction.
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then stop doing things that suggest it. we're not dumb. it's not a 'distraction' because you can't give any reason as to why this is happening/happened, and so we'll continue thinking the only one that makes any fucking sense which is - the lounge is disliked, and there are a group of people who fucking hate it and wish it gone, and they are making it happen. the simplest explanation is usually the right one, and in 30+ pages of nonsense i haven't heard a real reason as to why this is happening. if you expect us to swallow such a lie at least give us one, instead of all this wishy wash. c'mon alasdair. put a little more work into it. this is like felix level bullshit.

the bl owners and senior staff believe that this lasting change won't happen if we don't solve the problem publicly and with the buy-in of lounge staff and community. we do not believe that a model that hides the forum content behind a subscription is the appropriate path to the goal. as a result, the change implemented on the 29th (to the subscription model) will be rolled back. i.e the lounge will revert to a forum open to all bluelighters, accessed exactly as it was before the 29th. the current lounge guidelines and the blua are in effect and will be enforced.
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also bullshit, when were they not in effect? that's absolutely ridiculous. are you telling me you have a rogue administrator (foreigner?) just out there making massive website changes without a bunch of other people - regular moderators, senior moderators, administrators - being on board in some fashion to do it? that's absolutely fucking insane! a bunch of people thought this was the "path" to the "goal" and so they did it! if not, then there are waaaaay bigger problems than our little fucked up party in the lounge and i'm relieved that some fucked up shit happened so that all these obviously massive security holes could be fixed and people's keys taken away.

that said, there is a bottom line: hate speech is not and will not be tolerated in this community and this position is not up for debate.
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so...that's what we're debating? the...'goal' is somewhere to hide trolls so they can say die nigger faggot die without someone seeing it? and the 'path' to getting there isn't by telling lounge mods to crack down a bit or tidy up, but to hide and dismiss the entire forum under the rug???? i mean seems a little EXTREME don't you think? you should know better, you've been here forever. the lounge has gone through clean ups, and things that were previously OK became not OK, and it generally was done by the lounge mods and the lounge in general. again, one can't help but think that yes, the lounge is up for execution when no one could be fucking arsed to, i don't know, ask the lounge mods to help? insane. just absolutely fucking insane.
 
That's a bummer that it's being rolled back. I was always a fan of making TL only visible to BL'ers, and even GL'ers as long as they can't post. It's a shit show based on the selfish entertainment of a few regulars. And to be honest, that's basically why fresh meat is needed in there and why everyone speaks against stagnation. IMO no one joins BL just for TL. It's a privilege forum after you've contributed something, admittedly very little (50 posts), that you are granted access to in order to. It's my favorite forum, and the only one I visit, but I'd rather have it behind a wall instead of having someone like droop being banned for saying fag or nigga, and their derivatives. And I'm someone that thinks their derivatives are often funnier and more creative than the originals that I don't use. Yes, someone can get out of hand using those terms, similar ones, or could just be low quality posters(captain.waffles, synthetix, etc), but that's when you trust the staff you hired to rein them in.

And that's the key, trusting staff to control TL. The biggest sites with paid staff, think of places like YT and FB, STILL have not gotten comments under control after considerable measures. It's just the nature of the beast -people are going to be assholes behind screens. The places that do have them under control, IME, are places with no rules. It sounds crazy and unorthodox, but they have no specific rules such as "you can't say faggot." All they say is "it's the staff's discretion with decency taken into account" whether your post is allowed or not. Yes, behind the scenes there are some sort of decency rules that are somewhat spelled out and discussed, but there is nothing public, it's all basically based on the trust of the people that are chosen as staff. Sure that can get out of control, but then you make changes and choose better staff and there is more accountability, at least beyond "they said a banned word" that's why they were infracted/banned.

If it was my choice that's what I'd do. Make it invisible to non registered members (Non-Gl'ers, BL'ers, etc) and trust the staff to get the job done. Again, no one should join BL because of search results for "Nudie" thread or some other retarded Lounge thread, and if they do they really don't get the point of the site and should be forced to get at least 50 (arguably worthwhile) posts before being granted access to the equivalent of a privileged chatroom.
 
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