Site Feedback Why is Bluelight ashamed of the Lounge yet not ashamed of The Shrine?

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ehhh

I'm over this. lol.

I know I could never run a functioning online community. I made some geocities band pages back in the day. lol.

Best guess, everyone just go with it.
 
raiders+of+the+lost+ark+staff+of+ra.jpg
 
I have often felt that the Shrine should be stickied in NMI.

As a teacher in elementary school, I am in a somewhat unique position on these boards in that IRL my life is mostly spent with a demographic of non-drug users who are adamantly opposed to drug use of any kind (except alcohol, of course, that old hypocrisy), opposed to most legalization (in other words, supporters of the War on Drugs) that therefore find my participation here to be questionable if not abhorrent. I am very open about how I came here and why I stay. One of the ways that I have been able to make a bridge to my colleagues on the other side of the great divide of drug and addiction ignorance (innocent and well-intentioned as it may be) is to describe the very messy world of Bluelight as the Planned Parenthood of the recreational drug world. We can all agree that we do not want our 14 year old daughters having sex and that everything we do at home as parents would be to that end. But if all the guidance and education and support did not deter my daughter from doing so, I would want her to have protected sex, to ask questions and get real answers. Might she still get pregnant or get STDs? Of course, but at least her chances would be minimized to the best of anyone's ability. The "best of anyone's ability" ends at my daughter's free will no matter how much I may wish it did not nor how much I tried to impede that free will.

I spoke with the owners of Erowid several years ago about trying to come up with something together for both of our sites that was directed at people far too young to have any business being on a site like these but who are undeniable there anyway. We all 3 agreed that writing anything that our own 13-18 year old selves would read without immediately discounting was a next to impossible task. Regardless, I still feel that a thread that is titled For Any Young Visitor New to This Site should exist in NMI. If I can ever figure out how to not sound like one more old person saying "you are too young to even think of doing this" the thread will exist. (I once posed the question in TDS, "What could anyone in your family have done to prevent your experimentation with drugs during your teens?" and the answer over and over again was, "Not a damn thing." (That came as no surprise to me as someone that came from a set of very loving parents that tried everything in their power to keep me from reckless use at an early age.)

So, does the promotion of dangerous drug use here exist? Yes, from members, it certainly does. Members become moderators--we are all volunteers in a very grass roots organization. Are there moderators who are being reckless with their own lives? Yes. Do they promote that? Absolutely not. In fact from everything I have seen they go to great lengths to be honest and open about the carelessness or compulsion of what they are doing and to warn anyone else from the behavior. Some of the best moderators that I have known here (not to mention some of my favorite people) have been addicts. Some are in recovery, some may never be. To hear them called "junkie scum" and "losers" is as offensive to me as any racial or sexual hate speech I have ever read here. The fact that my own dead son is being called that makes it particularly hurtful. Being hurt personally however by the language is not the issue. The arrogance of someone that uses drugs for all the same reasons an addict first used drugs calling that person a "loser" and "scum" is the height of hypocrisy. No one yet understands addiction and there are many models, from the medical to the psychological that you may subscribe to, but one thing is agreed upon-- a person's intellectual or cognitive ability has nothing to do with it nor does a person's willpower alone. If you truly believe that Bluelight is a community, as I do, then why in the world would you use this kind of shaming, hateful language?

The shrine was my introduction to Bluelight. My son's shrine, specifically. Of all the psychological chains that held my son to his addiction, shame was the most unbreakable. Three boys that I knew died within the year my son died. One stole his parents car and drove all night and then off a cliff. One was skateboarding home when a friend drove by. He decided to grab the side mirror and skate alongside the car. He went under the wheels. My son drank poppy seed tea, no doubt to quell his ever chattering thoughts. Three reckless decisions and yet the world judges only one as illegal, immoral and self-inflicted. Bluelight is one community that did not judge him that way and it is the source of my loyalty and my admiration.

Every day in TDS, in BDD, in OD and in many other forums I see people telling other people that what they are doing is unsafe. A moderator's job, among other things, is to make sure that the message is not lost in abusive language. Isolating people in their own shame has never saved anyone and it never will. Harm reduction is quite simple: give people facts and give them respect and community. The larger world does the opposite by marginalizing drug users and muddling the facts or delivering downright lies. Fear and shame are the main societal tools used to keep people from drugs and we can all see how well that is working. Harm Reduction is about the most honest phrase one can use; it isn't Harm Eradication. You will never take the risks out of drug use. Within the vast world of drug users there are always going to be people whose lives are a perfect storm for death. Hiding those deaths from the community and from the public would not serve the purpose of harm reduction at all.
 
herbavore said:
I have often felt that the Shrine should be stickied in NMI.

As a teacher in elementary school, I am in a somewhat unique position on these boards in that IRL my life is mostly spent with a demographic of non-drug users who are adamantly opposed to drug use of any kind (except alcohol, of course, that old hypocrisy), opposed to most legalization (in other words, supporters of the War on Drugs) that therefore find my participation here to be questionable if not abhorrent. I am very open about how I came here and why I stay. One of the ways that I have been able to make a bridge to my colleagues on the other side of the great divide of drug and addiction ignorance (innocent and well-intentioned as it may be) is to describe the very messy world of Bluelight as the Planned Parenthood of the recreational drug world. We can all agree that we do not want our 14 year old daughters having sex and that everything we do at home as parents would be to that end. But if all the guidance and education and support did not deter my daughter from doing so, I would want her to have protected sex, to ask questions and get real answers. Might she still get pregnant or get STDs? Of course, but at least her chances would be minimized to the best of anyone's ability. The "best of anyone's ability" ends at my daughter's free will no matter how much I may wish it did not nor how much I tried to impede that free will.

I spoke with the owners of Erowid several years ago about trying to come up with something together for both of our sites that was directed at people far too young to have any business being on a site like these but who are undeniable there anyway. We all 3 agreed that writing anything that our own 13-18 year old selves would read without immediately discounting was a next to impossible task. Regardless, I still feel that a thread that is titled For Any Young Visitor New to This Site should exist in NMI. If I can ever figure out how to not sound like one more old person saying "you are too young to even think of doing this" the thread will exist. (I once posed the question in TDS, "What could anyone in your family have done to prevent your experimentation with drugs during your teens?" and the answer over and over again was, "Not a damn thing." (That came as no surprise to me as someone that came from a set of very loving parents that tried everything in their power to keep me from reckless use at an early age.)

So, does the promotion of dangerous drug use here exist? Yes, from members, it certainly does. Members become moderators--we are all volunteers in a very grass roots organization. Are there moderators who are being reckless with their own lives? Yes. Do they promote that? Absolutely not. In fact from everything I have seen they go to great lengths to be honest and open about the carelessness or compulsion of what they are doing and to warn anyone else from the behavior. Some of the best moderators that I have known here (not to mention some of my favorite people) have been addicts. Some are in recovery, some may never be. To hear them called "junkie scum" and "losers" is as offensive to me as any racial or sexual hate speech I have ever read here. The fact that my own dead son is being called that makes it particularly hurtful. Being hurt personally however by the language is not the issue. The arrogance of someone that uses drugs for all the same reasons an addict first used drugs calling that person a "loser" and "scum" is the height of hypocrisy. No one yet understands addiction and there are many models, from the medical to the psychological that you may subscribe to, but one thing is agreed upon-- a person's intellectual or cognitive ability has nothing to do with it nor does a person's willpower alone. If you truly believe that Bluelight is a community, as I do, then why in the world would you use this kind of shaming, hateful language?

The shrine was my introduction to Bluelight. My son's shrine, specifically. Of all the psychological chains that held my son to his addiction, shame was the most unbreakable. Three boys that I knew died within the year my son died. One stole his parents car and drove all night and then off a cliff. One was skateboarding home when a friend drove by. He decided to grab the side mirror and skate alongside the car. He went under the wheels. My son drank poppy seed tea, no doubt to quell his ever chattering thoughts. Three reckless decisions and yet the world judges only one as illegal, immoral and self-inflicted. Bluelight is one community that did not judge him that way and it is the source of my loyalty and my admiration.

Every day in TDS, in BDD, in OD and in many other forums I see people telling other people that what they are doing is unsafe. A moderator's job, among other things, is to make sure that the message is not lost in abusive language. Isolating people in their own shame has never saved anyone and it never will. Harm reduction is quite simple: give people facts and give them respect and community. The larger world does the opposite by marginalizing drug users and muddling the facts or delivering downright lies. Fear and shame are the main societal tools used to keep people from drugs and we can all see how well that is working. Harm Reduction is about the most honest phrase one can use; it isn't Harm Eradication. You will never take the risks out of drug use. Within the vast world of drug users there are always going to be people whose lives are a perfect storm for death. Hiding those deaths from the community and from the public would not serve the purpose of harm reduction at all.
Click to expand...

an excellent post. thankyou herbavore. <3

my first introduction to bluelight 12 years ago was via bluelight social (which is now known as the lounge). back then there was alot more "plur" for lack of a better term (as the site was mostly centered around MDMA knowledge/harm reduction), although the nature of the lounge remains as it is today (especially among the long standing members of the subforum). the members of the community that are new to the lounge or visit infrequently have voiced that they have felt unwelcome or offense in the way in which members there interact with one another. i too recall my first lounge encounters being hazed and challenged into being welcomed, although was determined to stick it out as i could see that behind all of the memes, sometimes politically incorrect jokes and hazing that it was a community of kind and loving bluelighters that i wanted to be involved in as it was more suited to my personality type and there were some very wonderful, talented and eccentric individuals that intrigued me into staying. so i did, and am very grateful for that. as others have described the comfort of subforums that they frequent and sharing friendships that extend beyond bluelight with the regular members i feel that same passion for the lounge and alot of the people that i have spent years developing relationships with.

i have many stories of remarkable instance (as do many others) where the lounge community has rushed in to help another member, going above and beyond simply because one has expressed a need for help or genuine hardship. the first that comes to mind was when i was preparing to have extensive dental surgery and expressed my fears in that. a member (whom is a dentist by profession) called me very personally on the telephone at his expense to outline every step of the procedure and recovery period and would not hang up until i had exhausted every question and he was satisfied that i felt confident. i recall another, where a man had lost his mother and another lounger sent him money during the time of hardship and trying to put his mother at rest with not a second thought of doing so or re-embursement. my gosh i could write a book on the beautiful acts of selfless kindness that go on on a regular basis within that forum that is unseen by the public eye and behind the scenes of the lounge.

i too was unfamiliar with the shrine until my first experience of losing a member of the bluelight community that i was personally very close to, by the name of tobala. it was a shocking and very tragic experience. whilst were all very aware that drug use and addiction can possibly lead to death, we also have the mentality of "it wont happen to me, or those i love especially when educated with the tools and information necessary to avoid it". that bubble was burst and it was learned; that what we dont understand are the levels in which individuals are pushing the limits of their addictions to; especially behind closed doors; and that there are very real and sadly irreversible consequences to this. the names within the shrine continue to grow as the years have passed and also the mourning within the community. i would hate to see that disappear or be reviewed with shame and or failure of the sites mission, as that statement is both absurd and untrue. there is absolutely nothing shameful about a community rallying together to express gratitude for members who have tragically lost their battle to addiction and should only further increase the community to share the knowledge they possess and aim to educate each other and be of support to one another.

i am in absolute agreeance with you herbavore that hiding ANYTHING within the community goes against the nature and true purpose of harm reduction; and that whether appreciated, understood or valued in the opinion of each member, every single aspect that holds this community together is both important and relevant.

...kytnism...:|
 
I can personally speak that I first saw the lounge after being up for three days cramming for college, high as fuck, and it scared the shit out of me.

Wasnt expecting threads with all sorts of "headfucks" and rude shit.

I could say running into a social full of PLUR would have made that night less stressful.

Just being honest here.

I mean you have to imagine the stress of being in super-high-competitive environments going solo then see shit on there cross over with what some ex or dude you dont get along with says on facebook in the middle of doing a thousand things.

Anyone who tries to claim that the Lounge doesn't try to be paranoia inducing would be lying.

Paranoia can be dangerous at the most unpredictable times.
 
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^Right.

And here's the thing about psychotherapy; you have to be willing to voice every quirk, strange thought, fear in a totally open manner. Competitive environments don't foster the basic fundamentals of proper cognitive behavioral therapy. The lounge is 100 percent counterintuitive to MAPS and the Venus Project.
 
ParappaTheRapper said:
I can personally speak that I first saw the lounge after being up for three days cramming for college, high as fuck, and it scared the shit out of me.

Wasnt expecting threads with all sorts of "headfucks" and rude shit.

I could say running into a social full of PLUR would have made that night less stressful.

Just being honest here.

I mean you have to imagine the stress of being in super-high-competitive environments going solo then see shit on there cross over with what some ex or dude you dont get along with says on facebook in the middle of doing a thousand things.

Anyone who tries to claim that the Lounge doesn't try to be paranoia inducing would be lying.

Paranoia can be dangerous at the most unpredictable times.
Click to expand...

im sorry that you had alot going on that night and that entering the lounge in that state only exasperated that. could the same be suggested if while under the influence you entered other drugs to research your DOC to read another member suggest that the dose you took was potentially fatal (in their opinion), or that the pills you just ate were listed on pillreports as being an unknown potentially dangerous adulterated substance? or even in the community forums; you could have entered SLR and read a thread outlining the exact same circumstance going on with your ex and that triggered paranoia and or an emotional response that could have ended with terrible consequence?

this why i appreciate every single sub-forum on bluelight and its place within the community as they are all relative to difference of lifestyle, interest and circumstance. there have always been guidelines that are stickied and recommended to be read before participating in each one, and in the nature of the lounge, a disclaimer before entering that says post at your own risk.

...kytnism...:|
 
Yes, that's very true. I was probably not of sound mind during those all-nighters. Anything could have freaked me out.

Thats a good point. Thanks.
 
herbavore said:
I have often felt that the Shrine should be stickied in NMI.

As a teacher in elementary school, I am in a somewhat unique position on these boards in that IRL my life is mostly spent with a demographic of non-drug users who are adamantly opposed to drug use of any kind (except alcohol, of course, that old hypocrisy), opposed to most legalization (in other words, supporters of the War on Drugs) that therefore find my participation here to be questionable if not abhorrent. I am very open about how I came here and why I stay. One of the ways that I have been able to make a bridge to my colleagues on the other side of the great divide of drug and addiction ignorance (innocent and well-intentioned as it may be) is to describe the very messy world of Bluelight as the Planned Parenthood of the recreational drug world. We can all agree that we do not want our 14 year old daughters having sex and that everything we do at home as parents would be to that end. But if all the guidance and education and support did not deter my daughter from doing so, I would want her to have protected sex, to ask questions and get real answers. Might she still get pregnant or get STDs? Of course, but at least her chances would be minimized to the best of anyone's ability. The "best of anyone's ability" ends at my daughter's free will no matter how much I may wish it did not nor how much I tried to impede that free will.

I spoke with the owners of Erowid several years ago about trying to come up with something together for both of our sites that was directed at people far too young to have any business being on a site like these but who are undeniable there anyway. We all 3 agreed that writing anything that our own 13-18 year old selves would read without immediately discounting was a next to impossible task. Regardless, I still feel that a thread that is titled For Any Young Visitor New to This Site should exist in NMI. If I can ever figure out how to not sound like one more old person saying "you are too young to even think of doing this" the thread will exist. (I once posed the question in TDS, "What could anyone in your family have done to prevent your experimentation with drugs during your teens?" and the answer over and over again was, "Not a damn thing." (That came as no surprise to me as someone that came from a set of very loving parents that tried everything in their power to keep me from reckless use at an early age.)

So, does the promotion of dangerous drug use here exist? Yes, from members, it certainly does. Members become moderators--we are all volunteers in a very grass roots organization. Are there moderators who are being reckless with their own lives? Yes. Do they promote that? Absolutely not. In fact from everything I have seen they go to great lengths to be honest and open about the carelessness or compulsion of what they are doing and to warn anyone else from the behavior. Some of the best moderators that I have known here (not to mention some of my favorite people) have been addicts. Some are in recovery, some may never be. To hear them called "junkie scum" and "losers" is as offensive to me as any racial or sexual hate speech I have ever read here. The fact that my own dead son is being called that makes it particularly hurtful. Being hurt personally however by the language is not the issue. The arrogance of someone that uses drugs for all the same reasons an addict first used drugs calling that person a "loser" and "scum" is the height of hypocrisy. No one yet understands addiction and there are many models, from the medical to the psychological that you may subscribe to, but one thing is agreed upon-- a person's intellectual or cognitive ability has nothing to do with it nor does a person's willpower alone. If you truly believe that Bluelight is a community, as I do, then why in the world would you use this kind of shaming, hateful language?

The shrine was my introduction to Bluelight. My son's shrine, specifically. Of all the psychological chains that held my son to his addiction, shame was the most unbreakable. Three boys that I knew died within the year my son died. One stole his parents car and drove all night and then off a cliff. One was skateboarding home when a friend drove by. He decided to grab the side mirror and skate alongside the car. He went under the wheels. My son drank poppy seed tea, no doubt to quell his ever chattering thoughts. Three reckless decisions and yet the world judges only one as illegal, immoral and self-inflicted. Bluelight is one community that did not judge him that way and it is the source of my loyalty and my admiration.

Every day in TDS, in BDD, in OD and in many other forums I see people telling other people that what they are doing is unsafe. A moderator's job, among other things, is to make sure that the message is not lost in abusive language. Isolating people in their own shame has never saved anyone and it never will. Harm reduction is quite simple: give people facts and give them respect and community. The larger world does the opposite by marginalizing drug users and muddling the facts or delivering downright lies. Fear and shame are the main societal tools used to keep people from drugs and we can all see how well that is working. Harm Reduction is about the most honest phrase one can use; it isn't Harm Eradication. You will never take the risks out of drug use. Within the vast world of drug users there are always going to be people whose lives are a perfect storm for death. Hiding those deaths from the community and from the public would not serve the purpose of harm reduction at all.
Click to expand...

I think planned parenthood is a good analogy. I can't believe the site isn't linked formally to Erowid at all.

What"s NMI??
 
kytnism said:
an excellent post. thankyou herbavore. <3

my first introduction to bluelight 12 years ago was via bluelight social (which is now known as the lounge). back then there was alot more "plur" for lack of a better term (as the site was mostly centered around MDMA knowledge/harm reduction), although the nature of the lounge remains as it is today (especially among the long standing members of the subforum). the members of the community that are new to the lounge or visit infrequently have voiced that they have felt unwelcome or offense in the way in which members there interact with one another. i too recall my first lounge encounters being hazed and challenged into being welcomed, although was determined to stick it out as i could see that behind all of the memes, sometimes politically incorrect jokes and hazing that it was a community of kind and loving bluelighters that i wanted to be involved in as it was more suited to my personality type and there were some very wonderful, talented and eccentric individuals that intrigued me into staying. so i did, and am very grateful for that. as others have described the comfort of subforums that they frequent and sharing friendships that extend beyond bluelight with the regular members i feel that same passion for the lounge and alot of the people that i have spent years developing relationships with.

i have many stories of remarkable instance (as do many others) where the lounge community has rushed in to help another member, going above and beyond simply because one has expressed a need for help or genuine hardship. the first that comes to mind was when i was preparing to have extensive dental surgery and expressed my fears in that. a member (whom is a dentist by profession) called me very personally on the telephone at his expense to outline every step of the procedure and recovery period and would not hang up until i had exhausted every question and he was satisfied that i felt confident. i recall another, where a man had lost his mother and another lounger sent him money during the time of hardship and trying to put his mother at rest with not a second thought of doing so or re-embursement. my gosh i could write a book on the beautiful acts of selfless kindness that go on on a regular basis within that forum that is unseen by the public eye and behind the scenes of the lounge.

i too was unfamiliar with the shrine until my first experience of losing a member of the bluelight community that i was personally very close to, by the name of tobala. it was a shocking and very tragic experience. whilst were all very aware that drug use and addiction can possibly lead to death, we also have the mentality of "it wont happen to me, or those i love especially when educated with the tools and information necessary to avoid it". that bubble was burst and it was learned; that what we dont understand are the levels in which individuals are pushing the limits of their addictions to; especially behind closed doors; and that there are very real and sadly irreversible consequences to this. the names within the shrine continue to grow as the years have passed and also the mourning within the community. i would hate to see that disappear or be reviewed with shame and or failure of the sites mission, as that statement is both absurd and untrue. there is absolutely nothing shameful about a community rallying together to express gratitude for members who have tragically lost their battle to addiction and should only further increase the community to share the knowledge they possess and aim to educate each other and be of support to one another.

i am in absolute agreeance with you herbavore that hiding ANYTHING within the community goes against the nature and true purpose of harm reduction; and that whether appreciated, understood or valued in the opinion of each member, every single aspect that holds this community together is both important and relevant.

...kytnism...:|
Click to expand...

How do Bluelighters find out about a death? Something like an obituary??
 
thujone said:
PLUR needs to make a comeback
Click to expand...

It can.

I think any of our social threads are an important part of HR for all the reasons kyntism outlined and everyone else has commented on. Stop the racial and homophobic slurs, stop calling people on a drug forum junkie scum and stop being cruel to newcomers for sport and there is absolutely no problem. The majority of TL wants that, the mods of TL want that (and work damn hard trying to enforce it) the admin, smods and mods want that so what is the problem?


@Parrappa--NMI is New Member Introductions.;)

@ Everyone: Happy New Year! <3
 
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