• Welcome Guest

    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
    Fun 💃 Threads Overdosed? Click
    D R U G   C U L T U R E

Why don't people stay on benzos for life?

Robot there is no way my prompt necessitated such a long response. Please keep your comments on my statements cohesive, or I don't have time to read them; I'm not saying your contribution wasn't important, honestly though it doesn't make much sense.

Really, I'm clean.

In fact ziirp you know little about pharmacology, as benzodiazepines operate at a specific place and have a unique, beneficent function that, unlike alcohol, results in action which isn't neurotoxic. Yet, to respond, they do work well for PTSD. Is that a problem?

Want to label me? Fine. I'll label you. You're an anarchist against democracy and the implementation of a more healthy human existence. You would rather predispose society to the radicalism of religion than the stability of science. I see exactly where you come from.

You think our society is all about power, money, and exploitation. You're whats we call a pessimist, not able to see the glory of contemporary civilization, one manifested through the sacrifices of my ancestors.

Why don't people stay on benzos for life? For those who need them, good question.
 
A psychologist does not use medication to treat psychological disorders. Here is some info about psychiatrists that will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.

How is religion supposed to heal a medical disorder? I'm a Christian myself, but I know that illnesses require medication.
 
RobotRipping said:
the social sciences are flawed for that reason though. Even the scientific method can't overcome its reliance on empiricism to the point where something can be stated as absolutely true. We only know what we can measure or perceive, that is in itself liable to error. The social sciences are subject to additional issues, especially using just statistics, they must be scrutinized and reproduced consistently to hold any weight and even then, there are no absolute claims that can be made. It's easy to show correlation but nearly impossible to prove causation with the social sciences. We see trends, patterns and can make predictions but it's not near as rigorous as a hard science nor near as reliable. The laws of physics and logic are also subject to change.

Ziiirp was setting up a logical argument (using predicate logic) for a working definition of being 'clean'. Which is admirable but doesn't really have relevance to this thread. Maths and logic do collide but that's just predicate logic being used, not pure maths.

TL;DR sorry that was so long.
Click to expand...

Nice argumentation chain for explaining, why the so called social sciences are not accurate enough to map from reality into the knowledge space. Having already experience myself in empirical studies (which seems to be the only valuable method in the "Arts" - fields), I could determine that it is basically about claiming a rather random hypothesis and test it empirically against a sample part of a population of subjects. Up to this point there is nothing wrong, but most times the hypothesis cannot be proven and then raping of statistical models and normalization of all kinds comes into play in order to push the measured values into the presumed boundaries. I am sure anyone, who attended in the implementation of these studies can confirm my point.

Regarding predicate logic vs. "pure" (?) maths : Could you be more specific ? Obviously my basic assertion on the top cannot win any noble price :) It was merely a discussion base for illuminating my view point without many words. I prefer short reasonable statements. Fundamentally maths is a helper science to model primarily physical (also chemical or information theoretic) conditions. It is an interface for introducing formal systems, that consist of axioms and symbol transformations. Predicate logic at this point was conveniente to describe the issue as simple as possible without comprising any further overkill.
I do not see, how we can get more "real" without collecting physical data.

If we had time, equipment and money we could measure exactly the activity of synaptic pathways and which neuron fires when and through which neurotransmitter. Then we could go on and observe the paths of the neurotransmitter as brain waves which could be modeled by time discrete signals. We could integrate the PDF (probability density function) of the signal (it should not be self correlating) times the squared average and receive the power at a certain neuron, which indicates the concentration of the neurotransmitter there. So we could measure/simulate digitally where the brain lacks GABA/dopamine etc. But that is not possible at the moment. So any psychological disease at this time is based on speculation and prescribing any drug against any speculated deficiency is the same as still believing in the gods of the ancient Greece.

@ Ho-Chi-Minh

I do not know what to say, so I just send you this smiley :D
 
A mental illness can't be cured by religion, it can however be alleviated.
Spirituality and perhaps a social group that can come from belonging to a religion could be very helpful.
A study was actually done not too long ago and it found that religious people tend to be happier than non religious people
 
F1n1shed said:
You, are , not clean my friend. Sorry to break it to you, and neither am i. Even though i take a super low dose of clonazepam daily to keep away withdrawals, we are not clean. The meds may be helping you, but do not be blind. Keep it real
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct.

However, some people have problems with hard drugs, and to be honest it is so much of a positive victory for them to stay off the hard drugs, that if it helps them to ignore all the medium-hard drugs they use, and call themselves clean, I have no problem with it.
It's pretty much accepted in drug-culture as an alternative meaning for clean.

Sarah: "hey Big D I heard you stopped using"
Big D: "yea I was spending all my money on dope. Now [I'm clean,] all I take is my antidepressant, my ADD, and my xanax that i'm prescribed"
Sarah: "great job!"

There's no absolutes, and if it helps people to think of clean in this way, it's not worth debating it for pages.
 
Last edited:
Corazon said:
There's no absolutes, and if it helps people to think of clean in this way, it's not worth debating it for pages.
Click to expand...

Word up. I wrote way to much for my post counter, don't we get a price here for highest word count/post ratio ? I see I am ruining it right now. One riddle remains : What does the D in "Big D" stand for ? :D
 
use thy imagination : )

*also i forgot to use the phrase "i'm clean" or "congrats on getting clean" in that example. (probably because i haven't had my strong 1/2 - 1Pot of strong coffee yet : ( .
 
I see no reason to hide your religion from people.

I know English isn't your first language but you're not making much sense, so please don't try to be funny. This is a serious discussion anyways.

Let me guess: you're a Muslim.
 
Sorry to disappoint you, I've quit arguing with you a few pages back. I've given up, you won, you are clean ! :) Dschihad ! GTFO :D

EDIT :

GTFO in this context means LMAO

EDIT 2 :

Since when do you have to belong to a certain religion in order to invite spiritual practice into life ? And you ascribe pigeonholing to me ? Why is this so serious to you ? If your feeling of being clean would be grounded, you would not need me, a nonentity poster from the internets, that is a pessimistic moron, to affirm you "cleanness", would you ? I want you to be happy. Discussing this topic with me won't make you more happy.

EDIT 3 :

In the end, like RobotRipping wrote (in a transferred sense), there are more important things than being clean, just try not to use the word so inflationary.
 
Last edited:
Ziiirp said:
I will try to make it short this time.

First off. Why do you think a single pill, that hits similar receptors as alcohol can solve your "severe mental health issues" ? The answer is : It will not heal anything. It will prevent you from reflecting your problems and stops the healing process in the end. It more or less exists to exploit you.

Based on the provided info I would conclude that you are CURRENTLY the Benzo addict prototype, whose addiction is not self-imposed but created by the ignorance and greed of the industry (the evil people :D). Everyone can change. The first step is to stop trusting psychatrists. They lack the necessary compassion to help another being with their problems (does not mean that I am lovely at all, I just reveal a piece of my version of the truth). Seek help in religion/spiritualism (the good people :D) instead. It won't be easy to find honest seekers. Perhaps you will have to leave the country, perhaps the righteous people are your neighbors already.

Just a few hints on the manipulative baiting initiated by the industry :

They create a contradictory 2 caste society :
- drugs vs. medication
- no insurance vs. insurance
- addict vs. patient
- street vs. pharmacy
- dealer vs. M.D.
- dealers advocate vs. psychatrist
- war on drugs vs. selling Benzos, Amphetamine and Opiates like Icecream

That is not to glorify street dealers, contrarily I am saying that the medical department creates as much, if not more damage in the population as street drugs.

It obviously affected you and others in their thinking, which is scary. Yes there are therapists, that can help you, but I would not count people, that want you to get addicted to Benzos to that group !

btw. : Every coffee-drinker is a drug user per definition, no problem in that, he won't die in WD ;)
Click to expand...

Drug use by most people's definition is recreational or at best self-medicating.

drug abuse,
the use of a drug for a nontherapeutic effect. Some of the most commonly abused drugs are alcohol; nicotine; marijuana; amphetamines; barbiturates; cocaine; methaqualone; opium alkaloids; synthetic opioids; benzodiazepines, including flunitrazepam (Rohypnol); gamma-hydroxybutyrate; 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ecstasy); phencyclidine; ketamine; and anabolic steroids. Drug abuse may lead to organ damage, addiction, and disturbed patterns of behavior. Some illicit drugs, such as heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide, and phencyclidine hydrochloride, have no recognized therapeutic effect in humans. Use of these drugs often incurs criminal penalty in addition to the potential for physical, social, and psychologic harm. See also drug addiction.

-Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.
 
Corazon said:
You are 100% correct.

However, some people have problems with hard drugs, and to be honest it is so much of a positive victory for them to stay off the hard drugs, that if it helps them to ignore all the medium-hard drugs they use, and call themselves clean, I have no problem with it.
It's pretty much accepted in drug-culture as an alternative meaning for clean.

Sarah: "hey Big D I heard you stopped using"
Big D: "yea I was spending all my money on dope. Now [I'm clean,] all I take is my antidepressant, my ADD, and my xanax that i'm prescribed"
Sarah: "great job!"

There's no absolutes, and if it helps people to think of clean in this way, it's not worth debating it for pages.
Click to expand...

Yea i agree, over all if it is helping you than go for it. I just don't like when i read about people being on like 4-6mg of klonopin a day, a high dose script for amphetamines, this , that etc.
And they act like they are fixed and clean, just because they aren't using street drugs.

This doesn't apply to ho chi, as i know he is on low doses.
 
weekend addiction said:
Drug use by most people's definition is recreational or at best self-medicating.

drug abuse,
[Some illicit drugs, such as heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide, and phencyclidine hydrochloride, have no recognized therapeutic effect in humans.
Click to expand...

Since when did heroin have no therapeutic effects? I'm sure analgesia during labour and in cancer sufferers can be pretty damn beneficial!
 
weekend addiction said:
Drug use by most people's definition is recreational or at best self-medicating.

drug abuse,
the use of a drug for a nontherapeutic effect. Some of the most commonly abused drugs are alcohol; nicotine; marijuana; amphetamines; barbiturates; cocaine; methaqualone; opium alkaloids; synthetic opioids; benzodiazepines, including flunitrazepam (Rohypnol); gamma-hydroxybutyrate; 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ecstasy); phencyclidine; ketamine; and anabolic steroids. Drug abuse may lead to organ damage, addiction, and disturbed patterns of behavior. Some illicit drugs, such as heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide, and phencyclidine hydrochloride, have no recognized therapeutic effect in humans. Use of these drugs often incurs criminal penalty in addition to the potential for physical, social, and psychologic harm. See also drug addiction.

-Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.
Click to expand...

Within the definition of Drug Abuse is the word "non therapeutic" the antithesis of "therapeutic", which in it's definition lies the word "health" at which point we see a disruption in the matrix of definitive terms because "health" can refer to a wide variety of specific subjects, therefore this argument is one of semantics and as such it goes nowhere
 
Last edited:
I probably would stay on Valium if I didnt have to take moderate to (moderately) high doses of opiates for chronic pain...
I was prescribed 2 mg valiums when I started getting headaches (from a head injury) at age 14. Doctors thought it was way more safe than any tranqs' or opiates - off n on (mostly on) over the next 30some years my dose was raised to 10-15 mg's (mostly 10 other than the 1 year I thought they were fun) "NOT", so I've been on 10 mg's for more than half my life.
I also developed "daytime anxiety" when I felt the pain ratcheting up, though never felt the urge to need more (other than the 1 stupid year) and they help my head/neck pain tremendously.

I have a good Dr. but he's afraid of the drug enforcement assholes, so I am tapering, my neck and shoulders get so bound up tight, luckily I am prescribed strong opiates. I dont feel the need to take extras opiates (other than my tolerance doubling the last 15 years) that I cant imagine running out for even 1 day. It's not easy...If the neck/shoulder pain gets worse I may talk to a psychiatrist to make the script "legal"
 
Last edited:
Ziiirp said:
I will try to make it short this time.

First off. Why do you think a single pill, that hits similar receptors as alcohol can solve your "severe mental health issues" ? The answer is : It will not heal anything. It will prevent you from reflecting your problems and stops the healing process in the end. It more or less exists to exploit you.

Based on the provided info I would conclude that you are CURRENTLY the Benzo addict prototype, whose addiction is not self-imposed but created by the ignorance and greed of the industry (the evil people :D). Everyone can change. The first step is to stop trusting psychatrists. They lack the necessary compassion to help another being with their problems (does not mean that I am lovely at all, I just reveal a piece of my version of the truth). Seek help in religion/spiritualism (the good people :D) instead. It won't be easy to find honest seekers. Perhaps you will have to leave the country, perhaps the righteous people are your neighbors already.

Just a few hints on the manipulative baiting initiated by the industry :

They create a contradictory 2 caste society :
- drugs vs. medication
- no insurance vs. insurance
- addict vs. patient
- street vs. pharmacy
- dealer vs. M.D.
- dealers advocate vs. psychatrist
- war on drugs vs. selling Benzos, Amphetamine and Opiates like Icecream

That is not to glorify street dealers, contrarily I am saying that the medical department creates as much, if not more damage in the population as street drugs.

It obviously affected you and others in their thinking, which is scary. Yes there are therapists, that can help you, but I would not count people, that want you to get addicted to Benzos to that group !

btw. : Every coffee-drinker is a drug user per definition, no problem in that, he won't die in WD ;)
Click to expand...
Best to find the spiritualist inside yourself, and learn how to confront your emotions rather than talking to others. Don't get me wrong, it does do some good and you know each to their own. But I never found talking about issue to someone who is being paid to listen any use what so ever.
Doctors are paid and that's it, they have little to no knowledge about how what they give out actually work they just tend to know what to prescribe it for. Speaking from experience.
 
Can I request that this thread be moved to the dark side, drug culture, or healthy living subforum that will be more appropriate for this subject / question? I don't see how this is thread appropriately fits into the OD focus forum after rereading the posts and opinions being shared, mostly considering that I don't believe this is a question that has any answer that is not completely subjective
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
You're wrong though. The social SCIENCES uses statistics to reach conclusions just as much as the hard sciences. Clean in the sense that I'm using is scientific. The difference between you and I is that I'm speaking from the relative anthropological viewpoint whereas you're coming from a purely mathematical perspective.

I realize the path our discussion has taken isn't directly relevant to this threads original intention but I also believe in the value of honest, frank, intelligent conversations, ones like these, ones that bluelight ostensibly fosters. If need be, it could be moved, but people deserve the opportunity to see the reasoning play out, that's why I'm not pm'ing you.
Click to expand...

Strawman
 
I went throught the ringer of psych meds for anxiety. Doctors gave me all sorts of antipsychotics and antidepressants off label.

It wasn't until I got on klonopin that my anxiety got under control. I was 19 then. It completely changed my life for the better. I wasn't able to go to school or work let alone date. I was so anxious I couldn't relax in my house even being drunk or stoned.

After I got on klonopin I stopped taking all the other pysch meds and I was on about 6. My psychiatrist shit a brick and kicked me out. Every phsychiartrist kept trying to write me anti-depressants which I hate so after about 4 or 5 shrinks I went to my family doctor.

He understood and he had known me for over ten years. I now have my dose locked in for life. I don't think everyone needs benzos, but I sure do.

Its pretty much the same deal with my grandmother and my mother to a lesser degree.

I would consider myself to be completely clean to be just on benzos and to take a social drink. Im not much of a drinker and never have more than two drinks and that's about once a month.

Everyone has their own definition of clean. Mine is not sticking a needle in your arm or using cocaine or medications you don't need.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top