Why don't people stay on benzos for life?

[Tommyboy]

Definition of addiction
noun
[mass noun]
the fact or condition of being addicted to a particular substance or activity

thats the oxford definition, I can see what you are getting at because taking a pill everyday which is prescribed is not necessarily a compulsive behaviour

are you trying to say that its not an addiction because you don't experience withdrawals unless something unforeseen occurs? At the end of the day, if someone separates someone who is dependent on benzo's from their medication for 3 days shit is still going to hit the fan, thats all I see as addiction really.

I'm saying it's not an addiction if you don't crave the drug, use it recreationally, or seek out more to get high from it. People will usually become addicted to a drug before becoming dependent on it, and then there are people that take a drug as prescribed and become dependent on it but without being addicted to it.

I don't follow you here.

How do you differentiate addiction and dependency?

There are many people that take benzos as prescribed, don't get high off of them, and wouldn't be taking them if they didn't need it to treat their symptoms. However, even just taking them as prescribed often results in physical dependence on the drug.

Some people are both addicted and dependent on a drug, meaning they get high off of it, use it recreationally, crave it, think about using it a lot, and on top of that they will experience withdrawal symptoms if they don't take it, thus making them dependent on top of addicted.

So for some people taking benzos is no different than a person taking insulin or blood pressure medication. Their bodies need it to function and will experience negative effects if they stop taking it, but it's not something that they want to take or feel good from taking.

That's what I meant by people being dependent on a drug without being addicted to it.

 

[gerry978]

Be really careful with social drinking and benzos. It truly sneaks up on you and when it's realized, it's often a bit too late.

There is some research out there that indicates that benzos stimulate the same area of the brain that alcohol does. I do not have the citation at hand, but will look for it if interested.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I don't want to take benzos for life. If I were to take them for life, I would avoid daily use and would still avoid tolerance/dependence.

 

[RobotRipping]

I take etizolam instead of benzos now; the reasons for that were that benzos cause a hell of a cognitive fog. Etizolam isn't so bad but still i don't want to be on it for life. It's expensive for one (at my doses), can't travel to another country for another, limits my mobility and i'm not that much better off on etizolam anyway.

if it works it works, then stay on it but i don't like being on benzos at all anymore, gave up my diazepam script. After 8 months or whatever of etizolam, yeah don't really want to be on it forever. I need to face my fears, my problems, what i'm hiding from, not emotionally blunt myself forever, sometimes i wonder what the fuck i am doing. I constantly help people deal with their problems head on then avoid them myself by taking etizolam. Am i that afraid of anxiety? well we'll see i guess but my goal is to definitely get off this shit mostly because i don't feel like myself while on it, i feel like a different person. A more functional and sociable person but maybe that isn't the best thing for me, i'm not even sure.

i also hate opiates as well for similar reasons. and stimulants. I just don't really like drugs anymore but yet i am so caught up in them that it's hard to get out of and even when i do i have legit scripts hanging around to taunt me and legitimate medical needs to always justify their use.

of course i say this while on etizolam, once i'm off it, i may come to realize that i do indeed need it anyway but i'll have to at least try and see if that's really true first. The physical dependence is an issue, addiction isn't really much of one with benzos/etizolam as there's no dose that will get me high at this point, it's just stopping me from facing my anxiety and getting to the root of it. If there is no root then well fuck it i'll stay on it but i can't find out what's causing anxiety when etizolam is covering it up constantly.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

HR ?

So if I bought an M.D. title in China and dispatch drugs from big ass pharma-companies that I persuade you to take every day, you would still consider yourself clean ? For you, being dependent on amphetamines and benzodiazepines equals being clean ? I'm worried I should have attended more logic classes ... IMHO GABA A/B agonists are emergency backup medication to treat psychological traumata but not a fix to fit better into (the occasionally obscure) society.

See the thread about whats it means to be clean. People have varying opinions. I don't get high, just normal. Is it fair to insult me so? I've gone through more in ten years than most have in a lifetime in terms of bad experiences so please don't act like I don't deserve my medicine. With it, I can be a productive member of society; no one loses.

Yes, I'm clean.

 

[Dagda Mochta]

Benzo's age generally supposed to be used short term or as needed, but some people do require long term benzo therapy, possibly even life long. I know first hand all about the horrors that misuse of benzos can lead to. I've had severe addictions/withdrawals/PAWS with clonazepam, alprazolam, diazepam, temazepam, and phenazepam. I currently still take a low dose of lorazepam as needed, along with daily trazodone, gabapentin, and dexmethylphenidate and the combo seems to be working for now, but my anxiety goes through periods of varying severity and my meds/doses have to be adjusted accordingly.

Through my life I've been through many many different meds. All kinds of benzos, SSRI's SNRI's, tricyclics, anti-psychotics, herbal alternatives, amino supplements, diet and exercise regimens, and meditation. Benzos are truly a double edged sword because they have really messed me up at times, and nearly took my life while withdrawing, but at other times nothing has improved my quality of life as much as a benzo/amphetamine regimen.

I personally believe that some people, including myself, will always have to rely on benzodiazepines for anxiety relief. The key is to have self control and be aware of the consequences of misuse. These drugs MUST be approached with great respect because they can make you or break you. The lowest possible dose should be used, and they should NEVER be used for recreation if you need them for medical purposes.

Honestly, if there's something fundamentally wrong with your neurochemistry, no amount of therapy, behavior modification, diet, exercise, or meditation is going to heal you. All that stuff does help, but I know that in my case, and for a lot of other people, medication is always going to be part of my daily routine, and nothing touches my severe anxiety like benzos do, and pretty much any other pharmaceutical that's used for anxiety has such horrendous side effects compared to the little relief they provide, that I feel like I'm stuck taking benzos for the rest of my life. And I'm pretty ok with that because my life is truly unmanageable without them.

 

[midnight11]

Honestly, benzos can be great, but they can also be fucking awful. When I was inpatient my anxiety was horrific and due to my weight SSRI's had no longer become clinically effective (it's an eating disorder thing - I had been on zoloft for a few years beforehand and kept taking it) I got thrown onto benzos because nothing else would help and nobody thought atypicals were proper for me at the time.

I went from lorazepam to clonazepam because of the rebound anxiety being 2x worse than what it was beforehand, plus it sedated me to the extent where I just wouldn't think about what I was saying. The tolerance builds so fast it's absurd, and before you know it, you're taking it just to maintain what you believe is a therapeutic necessary dose when it's very much possible that it no longer is making any difference compared to what it did on day one at the same dosage. It's kind of like a placebo affect, IMO.

That said, I don't think they're dangerous to take long-term if you're really careful, but I also see my psychiatrist once a week for 45 minutes. I don't schedule an appointment for a month later and hope they don't cancel, so I feel less desperate about them. If I didn't have access to the healthcare I do, taking benzos at all would freak me out if not just PRN because of the WD possibilities. I've seen people seize because of benzo WD, and trust me, shit is scarier than anything you could imagine.

Once you've seen that type of state in a person who would otherwise be "normal" because of a benzo, it's kind of hard to argue that they're totally safe and alright to be on forever.

 

[Ziiirp]

See the thread about whats it means to be clean. People have varying opinions. I don't get high, just normal. Is it fair to insult me so? I've gone through more in ten years than most have in a lifetime in terms of bad experiences so please don't act like I don't deserve my medicine. With it, I can be a productive member of society; no one loses.

Yes, I'm clean.

I am not insulting you, but every pharmacist would agree, that having your CNS constantly modulated by dopamine releasers and gaba agonists is far from being clean. I am sorry to hear, that you went to a lot of personal issues; I do not say, that you are not allowed to take your drugs of choice, I just emphasize the fact, that your current chemical balance does not fit the definition of being clean. Everyone claiming the opposite does probably make money from selling drugs or is self-delusional, too.

There is no obvious problem (at first sight) of not being clean if sobriety would cause life devastating difficulties. But what will you do when you eventually have to leave this life and never learned to cope with your anxieties, to accept yourself as you are instead of pushing your mind and body artificially to function in the eyes of the authorities.

My impression is, that we suffer from a lack of love and charity and try to fill the gap with drugs. Of course the industry welcomes that behaviour and will never point out that this development is far from healthy, when a dependent customer means more money and less work than a healthy person. It is difficult to break out of that cycle, I agree, but no reason to glorify addiction only because it is legitimized by a certified dealer.

 

[Survival0200]

I personally have nothing against addiction, if there's an infinite supply of the substance available.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I am not insulting you, but every pharmacist would agree, that having your CNS constantly modulated by dopamine releasers and gaba agonists is far from being clean. I am sorry to hear, that you went to a lot of personal issues; I do not say, that you are not allowed to take your drugs of choice, I just emphasize the fact, that your current chemical balance does not fit the definition of being clean. Everyone claiming the opposite does probably make money from selling drugs or is self-delusional, too.

There is no obvious problem (at first sight) of not being clean if sobriety would cause life devastating difficulties. But what will you do when you eventually have to leave this life and never learned to cope with your anxieties, to accept yourself as you are instead of pushing your mind and body artificially to function in the eyes of the authorities.

My impression is, that we suffer from a lack of love and charity and try to fill the gap with drugs. Of course the industry welcomes that behaviour and will never point out that this development is far from healthy, when a dependent customer means more money and less work than a healthy person. It is difficult to break out of that cycle, I agree, but no reason to glorify addiction only because it is legitimized by a certified dealer.

You're blatantly wrong. The medical community considers me clean. So does most of society. You, though, don't, and I respect your opinion but don't care for it.

Wrong again. I'm at least twice as productive on my meds as off them.

When I leave this life there is no telling what will happen. Go ahead and speculate.

You think its healthy to commit suicide?

 

[RobotRipping]

yeah i agree with ho chi minh here; really no one else's fucking business. Drs have no problem scripting out benzos and amphetamines and no one else gives a shit, who cares about being clean? clean from what? drugs? drugs are in your food.

I am quite a productive monster on my combo of dexedrine/etizolam and function at a far higher level than my peers. Despite being agoraphobic at times and a bit different than others, who fucking cares. My only issue with the combo is if i run out and/or go psychotic from the dexedrine.

what is interesting is how others find the benzo/gabaergic/stimulant combo to be very effective as well. On opiates i didn't do shit, but on etizolam/dexedrine i am a totally different person, i get tons of shit done, i function well, i am not even high either. I'd rather not have to use drugs to achieve this state but i don't get that choice. And if i can function better than someone who isn't on drugs, well, fuck them!

i also agree that it's garbage that our problem is just a lack of love and charity lol. It's our fucking chaotic fast paced lives that require amphetamines to stay ahead of the game and then benzos/gabaergics to relieve the anxieties/stress from this kind of lifestyle. If you want to get ahead of the game and function in this society then you should be either naturally born with high levels of dopamine and the ability to release gaba as needed or you can supplement. You choose, either way this fucking contemporary world was built, fought and won with methamphetamine and other amphetamines.

if you go and put me in a society where i have everything i want or need and work a stress free job 4 hours a day then yeah no benzos/amphetamines would work great but that's now how it is here. So i'll take my advantages in productivity and run with it and see the rest of you at the finish line.

 

[Crashing]

My theory is, first off people do stay on them for life. Anxiety is psychological, the less you know about drugs and benzos specifically the longer they'll be effective for you. When people just look at them as daily supplements/medicine, you end up with a case of Pavlov's Dog so to speak. But if you do research and whatnot, you'll learn about tolerance and addiction, recreational use and other peoples experiences, suddenly the dosage becomes less effective.

 

[Ziiirp]

You're blatantly wrong. The medical community considers me clean. So does most of society. You, though, don't, and I respect your opinion but don't care for it.

Independent sources ? Of course the majority of the pharma lobbyists are claiming : "When you get your drugs from an M.D. it is called medication. Take as much medication as you want, you will always be considered clean, you will never be labeled as Junkie opposed to someone, that is getting their drugs from the streets, because they do not have insurances, you do not belong to this scum, you are better" . Believing anything else would be naive. M.D. make money with you, as said, a dependent customer is a good customer. For the record, I take drugs (stimulants, psychedelics, adaptogens, alcohol) myself occasionally, but I am not so self-delusional to call myself clean. Some people are prone to elitist thinking and denying the truth ...

yeah i agree with ho chi minh here; really no one else's fucking business. Drs have no problem scripting out benzos and amphetamines and no one else gives a shit, who cares about being clean? clean from what? drugs? drugs are in your food.

Of course you agree, because you are deep into addiction and in utter self-denial. There is a major difference between the amino acids in our food and speed/benzos.

i also agree that it's garbage that our problem is just a lack of love and charity lol. It's our fucking chaotic fast paced lives that require amphetamines to stay ahead of the game and then benzos/gabaergics to relieve the anxieties/stress from this kind of lifestyle. If you want to get ahead of the game and function in this society then you should be either naturally born with high levels of dopamine and the ability to release gaba as needed or you can supplement. You choose, either way this fucking contemporary world was built, fought and won with methamphetamine and other amphetamines.

They obviously successfully programmed you to function and think you cannot change your situation without becoming addicted.

if you go and put me in a society where i have everything i want or need and work a stress free job 4 hours a day then yeah no benzos/amphetamines would work great but that's now how it is here. So i'll take my advantages in productivity and run with it and see the rest of you at the finish line.

I bet your boss is proud to have one like you in their stable. People, that give a fuck about their co-slaves and just work to please their slave drivers are more useful.


I see, we won't find a lowest common denominator. Clean or not clean, everyone has their own perspectives, as was already mentioned.

 

[midnight11]

This is becoming a highly heated discussion with many opinions being shared. I'd recommend people refrain from taking others perspectives personally. Everybody is different and experiences life in a different way.

I just don't think it's productive to argue about such a topic. As long as every individual feels that what they are doing right is for their own personal gain, it's fine. Let them learn from their own experiences. I'm not playing the mediator but just don't see how this would make anybody NOT want to pop a benzo

 

[username13]

Benzos for life? Ouch! Not something i would look forward to. To each their own.

 

[plmar]

benzos are the last thing i'd do 'for life'

 

[Corazon]

a tiny percent of the population needs substances like benzos (or fill in the blank pharmaceutical) for the rest of their life.
They are damaged goods. They truly can not function. It keeps them from biting the nurse, concussing into the walls etc etc...

The vast majority of people on these substances like the feeling, they become dependent, and they actually have built a justification in their thought process around chronic use. The manufacturers use heavy advertising and manipulation of the system(it isn't that hard to sell legal, addictive, socially accepted, doctor recommended drugs to uneducated unmotivated naive people).

90%+ of most drugs benzos, add, antidepressants, etc.. etc... is prescribed for the purpose of business. Not because people need them.

If you want to fall in that group and justify and fill that role, cool. More power to you.

 

[Corazon]

Independent sources ? Of course the majority of the pharma lobbyists are claiming : "When you get your drugs from an M.D. it is called medication. Take as much medication as you want, you will always be considered clean, you will never be labeled as Junkie opposed to someone, that is getting their drugs from the streets, because they do not have insurances, you do not belong to this scum, you are better" . Believing anything else would be naive. M.D. make money with you, as said, a dependent customer is a good customer. For the record, I take drugs (stimulants, psychedelics, adaptogens, alcohol) myself occasionally, but I am not so self-delusional to call myself clean. Some people are prone to elitist thinking and denying the truth ...



Of course you agree, because you are deep into addiction and in utter self-denial. There is a major difference between the amino acids in our food and speed/benzos.



They obviously successfully programmed you to function and think you cannot change your situation without becoming addicted.



I bet your boss is proud to have one like you in their stable. People, that give a fuck about their co-slaves and just work to please their slave drivers are more useful.


I see, we won't find a lowest common denominator. Clean or not clean, everyone has their own perspectives, as was already mentioned.

basically

 

[weekend addiction]

I plan to take benzos for life because I need them. If they invent a better alternative I will certainly be all for it. But for now clonazepam lowers my anxiety, helps my chronic back pain, and helps me sleep. And at the miniscule dose that I have worked myself down to I don't think I'll have any problems.

 

[RobotRipping]

Of course you agree, because you are deep into addiction and in utter self-denial. There is a major difference between the amino acids in our food and speed/benzos.

They obviously successfully programmed you to function and think you cannot change your situation without becoming addicte

I bet your boss is proud to have one like you in their stable. People, that give a fuck about their co-slaves and just work to please their slave drivers are more useful.

I see, we won't find a lowest common denominator. Clean or not clean, everyone has their own perspectives, as was already mentioned.

shit man what's your issue? lol i'm not addicted to etizolam at least. My point was that the whole idea of clean is silly and detrimental. I don't really care if i'm clean, you're clean or anyone's clean or not. What does that have to do with anything? I'm not in utter self denial, if you read my other post i do want to eventually quit etizolam, not to be clean but because of other reasons. To go around bashing people because they aren't clean because they are on medications is just pointless. Are you trying to upset these people? they don't care, i don't care, you can bash me into the ground while i take my etizolam for anxiety and dexedrine to concentrate, i don't really care. Boss just wants money, if my combo of drugs makes more money then we're all happy.

what is your real opposition to this? big pharma taking over the world? i don't see your argument, i can think of a few you could use but you haven't presented one. If you want, while high on my scripted medications i can come up with them for you and argue it out completely in a logical and reasonable manner. There's a pretty obvious one for amphetamine use as well as benzo use, why don't you just use that argument instead of coming off all grumpy?

i haven't been brainwashed or programmed, if i were, i wouldn't know it anyway but i can still out function my peers without drugs, it's just that with this particular combo i can completely destroy them. Maybe you find that threatening?