What's your top mood enhancement supplements?

[grue]

homeopathy is *strictly* the process of taking an ingredient which may/may not have been active from the start, and diluting it beyond/close to beyond quantifiable levels, right?

No, dilution levels vary considerably. It's just a dumb method of talking about dose level.

However, if you're saying they're *more* active than sugar pills, please provide some references to back that up, as anything I've ever found has shown, conclusively, the opposite.

Homeopathy uses atropa belladonna, for instance.

 

[Arnold]

And on the note of 95% of supplements suck / don't work, you may want to take a glance at a thread I put up called "does anyone have questions on bodybuilding supplements?" in the steroid subforum, you'll see more products covered and the responses to many of them. When I say 95%, I'm talking about walking into a GNC, 95% of the bottles of pills/powders in there will have almost, or completely, zero effect on the average person. Good supplements are hard to come by, in part because many of the good ones get banned!

Gnc test boosters are mainly tribulus ain't they?

For mood testosterone supplements can be usefull open to debate and yes I've seen test results from males where the total and free testosterone of a 20 year old male was below average.
Activate™ contains Divinium which comes from the stinging nettle increasing free testosterone(iirc..), tongkat ali. Still got to be a bit carefull with them.

Something like 6-oxo (non natural)will work a bit to well for mood and you'll end up with the opposite effect, in my experience anyways.
I don't believe in the natural one's to make you look like Schwarzie when he was younger.

 

[bingalpaws]

grue - not even quite sure how to respond to you - I said the levels vary, are you agreeing in a manner that appears as disagreement ?

Arnold - those are some great examples of what I meant. 60x0, tongkat, and tribulus have ZERO science showing increased strength, size or test levels. Let's just look at the poster boy of them, tribulus. It makes claims out the ass, but, if you dig hard enough, you'll find that there are NO credible studies (there's a couple junk russian ones I believe that you'd just laugh at) that show any gains in test, lh, size, strength, etc, but rather found the opposite - that it did nothing more than placebo.

 

[Arnold]

Tribulus yeah I agree, then again on the bodybuilding forums they claim you have to take 10g's of it for it to increase the LH (lutenizing hormone).
Tongkat works differently, it shuts down natural testosterone production first, it may not properly be researched but it does work.

Try 6-oxo yourself then come back.
Just ask on any bodybuilding forum about it, they're people that will tell you what works and what not. 6-oxo definately does.
http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/13

For the serum hormones, the only significant changes that occurred over the course of the study that were 6-OXO dependent were for FT, DHT, estrone, and T/E. FT and DHT underwent overall increases of 90% and 192% for 300 mg 6-OXO and 84% and 265% for 600 mg, respectively, while T/E increased 53% and 67% for 300 mg and 600 mg 6-OXO, respectively.

Sounds about right to me, they won't grow muscles for you..
No one will bother doing more studies then those , they've got more important things to do.

 

[Mehm]

some general points and questions..

-Placebo is extremely strong and can absolutely replicate the effects of something like acid given the right circumstances.

-Drugs like acid and mdma do not effect everyone in similar ways. A good friend of mine has to take a couple hundred milligrams of molly to feel anything beyond a light buzz. This isn't from tolerance, it's just how he's hooked up.

-A lack of credible studies doesn't show that X supplement is inactive. That is a logical fallacy. Binglpaws, until you show some studies specifically saying that noots don't work, you can't really make that claim. I assume that you have seen such studies though.

My questions..

-Most people agree that taurine (an amino acid) has a stimulating effect. Is this because everyone is taurine deficient?

-Do noots alter neurotransmitters levels and other biology? If so, they're probably doing something..

-What is considered a supplement?

 

[bingalpaws]

Tribulus yeah I agree, then again on the bodybuilding forums they claim you have to take 10g's of it for it to increase the LH (lutenizing hormone).

'they' don't know what they're talking about, anytime 'they' try that shit with me, it always ends with them completely unable to provide shit else but an anecdotal report (or those couple POS bulgarian trib studies)

Tongkat works differently, it shuts down natural testosterone production first, it may not properly be researched but it does work.

according to you - I've not tried it myself, but I'm not even sure why you're using it to shut down test, as when I sold that stuff it was in a 'sex booster' type herbal product, which also purportedly increased test (don't they all? 8) )

Try 6-oxo yourself then come back.

have, used ergopharm's and didn't find anything beyond placebo (I used to have free-ish access to supplements, my job had me with more samples/promos than I ever needed so I spent years on free supplements).

But again, placebo effect is huuuuuge. Everyone gets tricked. I've been tricked. If 60x0 worked amazingly there'd be no doubt about it, no studies needed. The anecdotals amongst hardcore lifters generally suck, and few studies have been done (it's like what, 3 y/o?). So, if it does work, it only works a little, and thus, is within the realm of placebo.

Just ask on any bodybuilding forum about it,

Wouldn't need to, I answer the questions on a bodybuilding board .

Which respectable boards have a membership base whose majority endorses 60x0? None that I've seen anyways, bodybuilding.com maybe but if you call that a respectable board I don't even know how to respond to something like that!!

No one will bother doing more studies then those , they've got more important things to do.

if there were potential, there'd be more studies - just look at creatine for proof of that.

 

[bingalpaws]

some general points and questions..

-Placebo is extremely strong and can absolutely replicate the effects of something like acid given the right circumstances.

I wouldn't go as far as acid, but fuck yeah you are right - try the non-alcoholic beer trick at a party and see how strong placebo effect goes

-A lack of credible studies doesn't show that X supplement is inactive. That is a logical fallacy. Binglpaws, until you show some studies specifically saying that noots don't work, you can't really make that claim. I assume that you have seen such studies though.

I have, but I'm not in a position to go research again and find them again - the info is out there for anyone.

I never made such a fallacy - I never claimed a lack of studies proves anything, unless I'm mistaken (aside from my true belief that, were noots actually a viable product for the normal, healthy-ish masses, there'd be the studies so that piracetam would be at every grocer next to the fish oil and vitamins). If I say tribulus does not work, it's not because there's a lack of studies, it's because there are studies that show it does not.

But - it's not up to me to provide the studies to refute something. If you want to say that supplement X works, or that such and such politician said something, or whatever - and it doesn't sound too legit, the burden of proof rests on your shoulders, not mine, it's as simple as that.

My questions..

-Most people agree that taurine (an amino acid) has a stimulating effect. Is this because everyone is taurine deficient?

I dunno about most - I guess I'm of the group that doesn't notice a difference between my caffeine+gatorade I make at home, and red bull which has taurine. I've also never noticed anything from the much higher dosages of taurine in bodybuilding supplements I've used, although I get enough protein, and thus, likely that I get optimal levels of all amino acids (heh, I guess that "enough protein" would guarantee that by definition lol).

Is everyone experiencing an effect? Then my guess would be everyone is slightly deficient. It happens, just look at omega3's, american diets suck when it comes to omega3's, so simply correcting that subtle deficiency actually does help one.

-Do noots alter neurotransmitters levels and other biology? If so, they're probably doing something..

I wouldn't disagree with that, my disagreement is with their purported 'cognitive boosting' abilities in otherwise sharp, healthy adult specimens.

-What is considered a supplement?

I presume you don't want the dictionary version because you would've looked yourself . My definition would include the obvious stuff (any herbs and chemicals not found in the foods we eat, supplement food items such as protein powders, weight gainers, multivit/minerals, individual amino acids <although I can't recall ever recommending anyone get a specific amino, they're abundant in protein if you eat enough>, caffeine/ephedrine, fuck I guess I'd even consider some hard(er) drugs supplements, as I definitely viewed adderall as a supplement during my college days...





Anyways guys my views are pretty clear and I'm glad to respond to anything from this that wasn't clear, but I'm done with the back and forths on arguing any specific supplements. This is simply because we can go on forever, like literally make this a fifty page thread, with no real point. If anyone wants to start a tribulus thread or something targetted and specific I may be interested + plz link it, but I think I've made my views on most of these very clear. I've got little interest in having the noot debate (and homeopathic, etc) again, yet here I am... if anyone's got *specific* supplement questions of the bodybuilding variety, feel free to dump them into the thread over in steroid subforum we have going to discuss supplements there and I'll gladly discuss them, but I'm gonna be bowing out of the noot/homeopathic arguement at this time guys (unless neuronal perception comes back, that's prolly all that can get me going in here again ).

 

[negrogesic]

There is no question that homeopathy is utter nonsense. It is simply not physically possible for such diluted compounds to have any effects, good or bad.

I guess our favorite doctor (the OP) is no longer posting here...

 

[Mehm]

I have, but I'm not in a position to go research again and find them again

ok, i believe you thanks for responding to my questions

 

[delta_9]

DMT is not a supplement. It is an illegal drug.

What's the difference?
Dont forget, "supplement" is a verb first and noun second
Something only becomes a supplement when you supplement with it. That means anything can be a supplement.

 

[tadfish]

Mine would be:

Phenylethylamine
Picamilon
L-DOPA
L-Tryptophan
SAMe
L-Theanine
Phenibut

Mine would be:


i agree never tried L-DOPA cause of side effects rather 5-HTP than Tryptophan and SAMe is an expensive waste of time

people say that stuff doesn't wokr sure some of them u won't notice like a drug but do u really notice taking vitamins and stuff?

I used to use alot of smart drugs and nootropics as well as nutrition just would like to know what doses people taking

there are other forums out there where u won't get shot down as much try to take care of ya body and mind and put back what drugs takee out.

I find 5-htp and l-tyrosine with b-vitamins great for after some drugs.
same as choline

 

[tadfish]

Mine would be:

d-money
l-cars
racemic chicks

homeopathy stuff is a waste of time yes

 

[mariacallas]

*bump*

 

[ebola?]

Okay...I've noticed nary a thing from piracetam, dmae, and the two combined.
Does this mean that my cholinergic system's already in working order?

ebola

 

[Pet Sounds]

Exercise.

bingo

 

[Mjäll]

Nicotine/Tobacco as a nootropic, anyone?

 

[The Real Fatman]

as far as otc supplements go, GABA

if drugs are included heroin

 

[deejah]

maca
raw non sweet chocolate
ginseng

thats just for starters

 

[ilikestims]

Let me tell you, rhodiola is working like a charm.

 

[SirTophamHat]

DHA (for memory/mood), magnesium (for anxiety), rhodiola rosia (for memory/mood)