• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

    Welcome Guest!

What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

Status
Not open for further replies.
@HeadphonesandLSD, I was going to send you a PM, but I am not able to. Would you mind sending me a PM? Thanks in advance!

In the USA, we have Drugs Data but they will not provide the full information. You don't know the percentage purity or the total milligrams your pill contains. You can pay more and send to International Energy Control, but I found their results a bit lackluster as well. Although, they are supposed to look at my sample again in more detail, and maybe they will provide better data the second time around.

As others have said, if you have access to both, definitely hold on to both the meh and the magic so that as we try to figure everything out, you have samples in each category. One thing you could do now would be to order a full reagent test kit set from somewhere like Bunk Police or Dancesafe, and test each sample and see if you can determine any differences in how they each react to the various reagents.

I absolutely agree that it is scary that there is no easy way to tell the difference other than consuming it, especially since we don't really know what is going on with the Meh samples or what kinds of contaminants might be present.

Would you mind sharing your experience with MehDMA? How many times have you had it and what was it like for you? How would you describe the difference between regular magic MDMA and MehDMA? Have you been able to experience "magic" reliably from one product, but not from another?
 
@Negi I was also thinking that the trace MDA must have something to do with the synthesis methods used. The one with MBDB came from the USA, and the other sample came from Mexico.
 
indigoaura said:
@Negi I was also thinking that the trace MDA must have something to do with the synthesis methods used. The one with MBDB came from the USA, and the other sample came from Mexico.
Click to expand...
Most methylamine is made in ways that give ammonium chloride as a byproduct and although seperation is fairly good it's never 100% more like 98% and that 2% ammonia chloride impurity goes through most reactions the same as methylamine and ends up as MDA.
 
I am looking through the Erowid database on MBDB, and I have to say, it sounds very much like the MehDMA experience. Here are some quotes:

When I tried to stand up I would feel tired and go back to the ground and lay down. The feeling of lethargy was quite extreme, and I thought I might fall asleep on several occasions. There was one moment of tremendous pressure at the peak, but an absence of the insight one would usually associate with similar compounds such as MDMA. I would not say it was a waste of time but it was difficult to integrate.
Click to expand...

There's a body buzz. Similar in presentation to the MDMA body buzz, but not nearly as enjoyable. If one can describe the MDMA body buzz as if ripples of joy were penetrating the skin and sinking deep into the flesh, then MBDB seems to have a warm fuzzy feeling only a few millimeters below the skin. If I had to scale it, I would say the buzz is 25% as enjoyable as what it is on MDMA.

There is a bit of an unpleasant cold sweat going on, we are cold, but sweating a bit under the arms and at the temples.

Simply put, MDMA gives you a swift kick in the ass after an hour. MBDB grows on you over the period of 40 minutes. MBDB will not surprise anyone.
Click to expand...

There are some empathetic qualities, but they seem to be a lot more introspective. I would find it very hard to use this under therapy. Its easy to reflect, but hard to communicate. There is just no desire to talk, but I feel closer to my wife just stretched out in the same couch with our legs interlocked. There is no desire to get up or do anything except stay put, relax, and trip.
Click to expand...

Anyone expecting an MDMA like experience will probably be very disappointed. Yes, the experience is similar, but only the side effects are virtually identical (nystagmus, body load, clenching). All of the fun properties of MDMA (body buzz, empathy, mild visuals, sounds and smells) are either very diminished or simply not there...
Click to expand...
 
HeadphonesandLSD said:
I mostly lurk this thread because I'm not a chemist. I'd like to learn more to contribute, are there any good places you guys would suggest for someone that's looking to self learn chemistry? My hope is to learn enough to justify going back to school to learn it properly.

Aside from my question: I have obtained some quality MDMA recently that isn't of the Meh-variety. 100mg of it sent me to the moon and provided that good old magic I remember from my youth. I know the source of this and the last couple of presses I obtained are from the EU. Everything I've had from that source has been magic. I'd like to start sending samples in to be tested or running tests on them at home that would be helpful. I know the thread has a lot of information but I haven't been able to get through all 250+ pages yet despite reading all I could over the past couple of months. Can anyone point me to the best place to send a sample to in the USA?

My source handles a lot of MDMA and several batches have come through that were underwhelming. They would like to contribute to these efforts because they want people to be safe and want to understand why some batches differ from others despite all of them testing positive for MDMA. It's scary that we can't tell the difference between MehDMA and non-Meh without someone taking the new batches.

Has anyone here run across MehDA before? I ask because my source always has both MDMA and MDA in stock most of the time. I'm someone that prefers MDA and I can never remember a batch of that coming through that could be described as MehDA. For whatever reason it seems like MDA hasn't changed at all while MDMA batches always seem to be hit or miss. The MDA has a habit of sitting around a lot longer than MDMA so maybe there is just no reason to take shortcuts when producing it? My source will rarely sell MDA to most people because of the neurotoxicity, duration, and the effects. It's mainly kept around for close friends and private get togethers. So the user base is a lot smaller but they are far more experienced than most of the locals that consume MDMA. If there was a Meh batch of MDA I'm sure most of them would be the first to complain. I can never recall any of them complaining and when MehDMA first started showing up here a lot of us just stopped taking it and switched over to only using MDA.
Click to expand...

Magic from the EU? Surely not lol.

Well it would be interesting to compare the magic and meh samples by TLC. I'll be updating my experiments with TLC, including precisely what I did, after I do some more on some bigger plates I've got on order. Unfortunately I only ever encounter meh so can't do comparisons. Feel free to dm me for more info.

As to MDA. Yeah, everything I've tried (from EU or Canada) has been meh. More visuals to be fair, and longer lasting, as typical of mda, but still meh with regards to things like euphoria.
 
@indigoaura I just looked up reagent tests and MBDB. I only found info for marquis, mandelin and mecke so far (quite a few blanks/unknowns). The mecke reaction should apparently be yellow whereas for MDMA it should be intense blue or yellow. With my TLC plate, I'm seeing dark blue for mecke for both spots, not yellow.

tbf, mdma should be green then blue for mecke but I've never seen the green phase.
 
hello - I have read this thread some long time ago. I see that it is still going strong, which is fantastic.

I stumbled upon this thread because I had an experience I think similar to what people would describe as mehMDMA. 30m-1hr for the rush upwards to kick in. Hit peak and then maybe an hour or so thereafter, just have a crazy huge drop off to where I would feel pretty much sober and then need to redose. (Everything I've had has been tested and strongly reviewed well)


A few points of interest, my experiences with mehMDMA and great MDMA seem to be a little counter to what I've read as anecdotes in these threads. The mehMDMA actually came from Canada for me and to date all the best experiences have come from various locations in Europe (although I would suspect the source is more than likely all from Holland). Additionally, maybe I'm just used to "today's" MDMA....(2006-2016), but for me the best rolls do not really exhibit a "hills and troughs rolling", for me the best rolls are just a constant never ending increase of the greatest feeling in the world (almost like you are constantly coming up from the prior point) until you hit a plateau of bliss that doesnt stop until you then start to taper off. In general, the only "peaks and troughs" will come if I'm just feeling so good that I hit my booster or second bump way too late (2hr mark vs 1/1.5).

One thing I do have to conclude as an outside and objective observer to all this conversation is that, and as much as I respect Le Junk, the dilated pupils theory seems to have been debunked. Plenty of people will have crazy dilation and feel meh in this thread. And It seems there have been plenty of great experiences it seems without it. I'll have to note it for next time...although if I do remember correctly most of us did get pretty dilated.

With respects to look, I believe "snow white powder" can be achieved through crushing crystals and washing your product. There is no odor, visual, or taste (did you know some people, due to their taste buds being different, perceive chemical bitterness like that of MDMA as sour?) that will ever be able to differentiate good or bad product and the fact that i constantly see posts asserting otherwise is quite concerning. Personally, some of the best molly i've had has had various looks, be it cloudy surf-white, purple, or champagne gold...and various odors and tastes. A minor bit of anything can completely change the color or smell, or taste...doesnt mean it is bad product, also again the acetone wash is available...

One other thing I would be quite curious about with the "old-timers". Is if they have tried the borax combo, or seemingly the "new" borax combo. It is supposedly very close, but longer and some prefer the experience over MDMA, I am curious how it compares for them.
 
Last edited:
I'm actually surprised how strong some pills have become. I thought near 200mg was absolutely the maximum but now some pills are near 300mg that i have seen on extasydata or pillreports. I ordered 25 pills with 250mg and appearantly also MDPV. I've seen some 2c-b pills going around aswell. Cool.
 
More quotes on MBDB from Erowid. All of this sounds almost exactly like my experiences with MehDMA. These people describe it better than I have been able to.

At the one hour point I decided on a booster of 150 mg, because I didn’t feel satisfied.
Click to expand...

My mood became dysphoric. I can only describe my feelings as being like the negative mental after effects of speed or too much MDMA.
Click to expand...

In many respects, this material is more like alcohol than MDMA.
Click to expand...

I think of it more like an exceedingly clean and nice alcohol buzz. Relaxing on the couch seems like all in the world I need to do at the time.
Click to expand...

So, here is my question. If there are trace amounts of MBDB mixed with MDMA, does that have the potential to shift the entire tone of the experience?

I read this on Erowid as well in a Q&A with the creator of MBDB (Dave Nichols):

Would the effects of MBDB class it as an Hallucinogen?

No, absolutely not, and even less so than MDMA. MBDB has an ethyl group
attached to the side chain (see below). When you do this to an
hallucinogenic phenethylamine derivative, it completely abolishes its
hallucinogenic activity.
Click to expand...

... the alpha-ethyl group in the side chain absolutely destroys hallucinogenic activity.
Click to expand...


So, here is a question for the chemistry minded people here: Would the presence of that ethyl group side chain diminish the hallucinogenic activity of other substances taken at the same time?

Link: https://erowid.org/chemicals/mbdb/mbdb_info1.shtml
 
Last edited:
indigoaura said:
More quotes on MBDB from Erowid. All of this sounds almost exactly like my experiences with MehDMA. These people describe it better than I have been able to.









So, here is my question. If there are trace amounts of MBDB mixed with MDMA, does that have the potential to shift the entire tone of the experience?

I read this on Erowid as well in a Q&A with the creator of MBDB (Dave Nichols):






So, here is a question for the chemistry minded people here: Would the presence of that ethyl group side chain diminish the hallucinogenic activity of other substances taken at the same time?

Link: https://erowid.org/chemicals/mbdb/mbdb_info1.shtml
Click to expand...
wow that actually does sound a lot like the "off" MDxx that people in this thread have been talkin bout.
 
indigoaura said:
So, here is a question for the chemistry minded people here: Would the presence of that ethyl group side chain diminish the hallucinogenic activity of other substances taken at the same time?
Click to expand...
That is more of a question for a neuropharmacologist, like David Nutt.

Anyway, please note how similar MBDB is to M-ALPHA. On that basis I would conjecture that their pharmacodynamic profile is similar, too.

MG94Ku4.png


I would not be surprised if M-ALPHA was misidentified as MBDB by an automatic library match, if that library did not have the M-ALPHA in it.
If someone was not paying attention (and unfortunate pyrolytic disproportionation happened in the analyzer), then even the M-ALPHA-HMCA could be mistaken for MBDB.
...and M-ALPHA-HMCA would not be in any current libraries for sure.
 
Last edited:
user666 said:
That is more of a question for a neuropharmacologist, like David Nutt.

Anyway, please note how similar MBDB is to M-ALPHA:

MG94Ku4.png


I would not be surprised if M-ALPHA was classified as MBDB by an automatic library match if that library did not have the M-ALPHA in it.
If someone was not paying close attention (or bad pyrolytic disproportionation happened), then even the M-ALPHA-HMCA could be mistaken for MBDB.
...and M-ALPHA-HMCA would not be in any libraries for sure.
Click to expand...

They found a molar mass of 266.13 for M-ALPHA-HMCA, MBDB has one of 207.27. I don't think there was any confusion between the two.
 
Negi said:
They found a molar mass of 266.13 for M-ALPHA-HMCA, MBDB has one of 207.27. I don't think there was any confusion between the two.
Click to expand...
Yes, but another paper mentioned that these OH groups easily disproportionate pyrolytically in the analyzer and the entire molecules rarely reach the mass detector.
GC/MS often works more off of proportion of fragments than intact molecules.

Do we even know whether @indigoaura 's samples were tested by GC/MS ? Once, when she asked for a full spectrum, she only received a UV spectrum, but I don't remember whether that was the same outfit.
Anyway UV spectroscopy cannot even distinguish between MDMA and M-ALPHA-HMCA so that method of analysis is unsuitable for resolving these compounds.
 
Last edited:
user666 said:
Didn't you mention a yellow spot before ?
Click to expand...
Yellow was in the original sample (champagne crystal or whatever nonsense they used to describe it), also in the freebase dissolved in dcm, also in the spot pre-TLC, and still present (although moved somewhat up) after TLC. Didn't react with any reagents but was visible to the naked eye.

Mecke on both of the interesting spot was not yellow.
 
user666 said:
The mass of the M-ALPHA-HMCA is in that paper which Negi found. The mass of MBDB is well known and published even in the old references.
I agree with Negi that if the entire molecule reaches the mass detector, then it can hardly be confused due to this mass difference.
Click to expand...
Oh I see. I was thinking that perhaps I missed the raw data from drugsdata
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top