What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[sekio]

It's a data point to note that they were following the clasical safrole -> isosafrole -> MDP2P -> MDMA route. Watching the video, it's obvious they are not on MehDMA!

 

[indigoaura]

@indigoaura

Thanks for the link. I have a batch that is not as good as my other batch. It's not exactly mehmdma as described in this thread, but definitely not as good as the other batch
I was just wondering if there was a way to make it better.
Maybe I'll try purifying it and leave out the recrystallization step. Do you have any experience with cleaning?

I understand the basic premise of an acetone wash followed by re-crystalization, but I have not done it. Considering giving it a try as well.

@sekio When you say "in solution," what solution are you referring to?

 

[sekio]

Any solution. By definition, a crystal polymorph means the material is a solid. Water is what I'd use, for obvious reasons.

Dissolving your MDMA into water beforehand will eliminate dissolution as a factor and speed absorbtion. There is no delay as the gelatin capsule erodes and the MDMA is exposed to gastric fluids (or the pill disintegrates and MDMA is absorbed).

 

[indigoaura]

It's a data point to note that they were following the clasical safrole -> isosafrole -> MDP2P -> MDMA route. Watching the video, it's obvious they are not on MehDMA!

Man, all those ravers at the beginning are so clearly rolling! That is what it looks like!

 

[indigoaura]

Good grief...

I don't want to go on about it too much, but these people in the video...

They are blowing on each other, touching each other, waving lights around, barely sitting up. They have the Vicks jars out. People acted like that because everything FELT good. Lights looked good. This is exactly what house parties used to be like.

@sekio , I know you are a bit skeptical of this whole thread, but doesn't it seem odd to you that whole groups of people would take "MDMA" and not act like this at all?

 

[sekio]

It's unusual, but I could see it happening. MDMA is a euphoriant and empathogen, but there's a limit to it. If you got a bunch of people who were distrustful of each other and had a generally stressful environment, no cool rave toys/music, potentially even pushing the dose too high, it would not be unusual to me to have a much less magical and overall more negative experience than if everyone had the 90's raver attitude of PLUR, had nothing to worry about, had all the party fixings, and dosed appropriately instead.

It's curious to me that the rise of MehDMA seems to align with the increasing general Bad Vibes in society these days. Post-9/11 things just aren't the same. People have so much to worry about these days, even if they don't admit it to themselves. Society is nothing like 1969.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

While society is increasingly disconnected from each other this is usually not the case in full blown mdma raves like hard style raves like defqon or psytrance parties where everybody usually gets together and has been quite welcoming but of course you still get those undesirable types who lurk around the scene and are very fake/assholes.

Even in old 90's rave videos you can see the various in the experiences people are having but i feel like those times people were way less judging of each other and were all there for one thing to rave have fun and party hard to the music. New generation of teens have just been glued to snapchat instagram and facebook and have totally degraded from previous generations into some very brainwashed into just wanting to follow stupid youtubers like jake/logan paul.

hell the younger generation will instead video somebody having a bad time at a festival instead of helping them just for the views and followers.

Look at the power hours of defqon 1 and you can see full blown "magic" mdma in effect in the crowd.

At darkpsy raves you see people going really spiritual and crazy on the candyflips having full blown ego deaths on the dance floor.

People are on all sorts of drugs at festivals these days including more and more meth. So i think its hard to say what people are doing if we didn't ask exactly what drugs they took.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Any solution. By definition, a crystal polymorph means the material is a solid. Water is what I'd use, for obvious reasons.

Dissolving your MDMA into water beforehand will eliminate dissolution as a factor and speed absorbtion. There is no delay as the gelatin capsule erodes and the MDMA is exposed to gastric fluids (or the pill disintegrates and MDMA is absorbed).

I always used to bomb crystal in a rizla paper. No doubt the rizla breaks completely apart before it even reaches your stomach. But I noticed that on an empty stomach, the good shit would start to kick in within 10 - 15 minutes, whereas the meh would take significantly longer at around 30 - 45 minutes. I found the onset time to be a pretty reliable indicator of quality - if it came on fast, I was in for a good time.

However, I've recently found that if the meh is dissolved in water first, the onset time matches the good stuff even if it doesn't make the quality any better.

So you're saying that dissolution is determined by the structure of the crystal, and the structure of the crystal is determined by the purity and type of salt?

 

[psy997]

Option a) Take 2CB or LSD first.

Option b) Dissolve the MehDMA in a liquid to rule out a crystalline poly-morph issue.

Option c) Boof the MehDMA

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve but every time I've plugged/boofed MehDMA it's been after dissolving it in water for use with a syringe, and that has changed nothing for me. Dosing MehDMA after dosing a psychedelic only ruins the experience for me.

If you're looking for a good time, I wouldn't use your Meh at all.

 

[user666]

If you're looking for a good time, I wouldn't use your Meh at all.

Good advice!
If I were you I'd take Meh only to suffer for science and do bunch of relevant blood tests.

 

[indigoaura]

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve

I suppose I am mostly trying to add data to confirm that meh remains meh even when variables are altered.

@user666 I will get you the glucometer data on this coming roll.

Received my Lieberman test. Stay tuned for that data.

 

[user666]

I will get you the glucometer data on this coming roll.

It is not for me - it is for the human race.

Anyway, for this test to be valid, first you need to establish you glucose curve as a baseline.
This means fasting, testing, drinking water with glucose and lemon juice*, testing 3x at certain times after ingesting the glucose.
The testing with MDMA should be done the next day or later, after fasting for 6h.

* You can delete the lemon juice if you want to suffer more. Glucose solution is yucky!

 

[AutoTripper]

The skittles with NL stamps i believe are also q-dance are highly rated here as a import 270 mg mdma with a half line break line. The fact is that everybody that sells pressies usually warns people to only take half if they not use to high dose pressed pills.

But for experinced users i have double dropped 300 mg mdma pills and i have seen my friend eat 3 of them once while on mushrooms and still live to the tell the tale.

In very heavy mdma users i use to see my friend eat half a gram + every friday night.


Hell i believe in ireland everybody does 0.5 g bombs. People die from mdma if they are usually too young and have consumed 1 gram + in a single dose but i could care less if somebody wins themselves the darwin award in the age of the internet by forgoing all harm reduction its on the person who died not the pill makers.

Totally with you on this, as I have openly extolled here many times from my own experience.

It has bothered me that there is this misconception, that 250mg above is an extortionate and dangerous amount per se, it really depends on the user.

Of course I fully respect and support harm reduction and sensible dosing.

But I took these amounts of legit, old skool magic many times, and as long as it was pure clean MDMA, I honestly never felt in any sort of danger or health risk or even uncomfortable.

Like a 1/3 gram of banging MDMA one time. Sublime comeup. Totalky comfortable, just purely at one with all, my higher self.

And damn so happy haha!

A friend I visited with some weed, suddenly got nervous about his returning step father seeing me me and he said in exact words and total awe and amazement- "your eyes look MAD!" With a big emphasis on mad.

I was 100% okay and safe, only issue occured when I tried to drink some beer, it turned my tummy and I laid down concentrating to try and stop the vomit reflex so I didn't lose any MDMA.

I did vomit a little, felt fine the entire time though.

No more alcohol, I finished the gram overnight and had an amazing following day feeling great.

I took 0.5 grams MDMA as a dose, numerous times.
And we (certainly I) took 3 good pills together, many times, 100-150mg.

I honestly never once felt in physical danger. Just rushing incredibly.

So it really depends on the individual. I just think it is a misconception that 250mg or above of is a dangerous dose fullstop.

 

[user666]

It has bothered me that there is this misconception, that 250mg above is an extortionate and dangerous amount per se, it really depends on the user.

I took 0.5 grams MDMA as a dose, numerous times.

For decades 1.5mg/kg was enough to achieve an optimum effect, so there is something wrong with the drug or with you.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

For decades 1.5mg/kg was enough to achieve an optimum effect, so there is something wrong with the drug or with you.

no lol. the reason why people do high dose mdma is a for what the experince can become something which half the fake neo fluffy kids wouldn't understand. Half a gram of mdma is one crazy trip in itself and good for becoming one with the universe.

 

[AutoTripper]

For decades 1.5mg/kg was enough to achieve an optimum effect, so there is something wrong with the drug or with you.

Trust me the drugs were good as good. All pre-2005. I was just a serious psychonaut. I am only saying that physiologically, 300-500 mg MDMA dosed at once, can be very safe for those who can tolerate it well.

 

[mars2025]

My previous post was misinterpreted as being the loss of magic argument. But it is not. Let me elaborate. First, let's recap the two opposing views expressed on this thread:

Old Skool Argument, mehDMA:

oldskool1: These new pills don't work for me. Must be something wrong with them. Let me go find some more people for whom these pills don't work, so I can prove it's the pills fault which means I haven't lost the magic.

oldskool2: In fact, it's probably due to the new impurities. Let me go study the impurities to prove that today's pills are meh

Q: But so many people say qdance and checkpoint pills work great for them?

oldskool1: Let's ignore those people and their data points

oldskool2: In my expert opinion, those people are not really rolling, not really getting the magic MDMA experience. If only they could try the real MDMA of old, they would know the difference. I know what rolling looks like and they don't have it. Young people today just don't know any better.

oldskool3: Ok, maybe a small number of them have personally convinced me that they get the magic. They must be getting some authentic qdance pills. But the vast majority of Dutch pills are crappy fakes; or the qdance pressers are knowingly putting out 2nd class meh product under their name in some regions and countries.

VERDICT: Confirmation bias. Conspiracy theory. Observation and interviewing errors. Faulty memory. Sour grapes and gate-keeping. Probably FALSE

*****
New Skool Argument, Loss of Magic

oldskool1: These new pills don't work for me.

newskool1: Loss of magic due to lifetime use, age and maybe health. Your serotonin receptors just don't really react to MDMA anymore. Happens to some people but not everyone. Too bad it had to be u ...

oldskool1: Ah, but my old skool stash still gives me magic!!!

newskool1: You're just imagining it. The sight, smell and taste of your old stash brings up memories of all your past rolls. Then your mind tricks you into mistaking those memories for an actual roll.

newskool2: Or maybe the memories actually trigger your serotonin receptions like in a psychosomatic effect.

newskool3: In a blind study you would not be able to distinguish your old stash of magic from qdance pills. It'd all be meh to you.

Old user CANNOT IDENTIFY magicDMA in a BLIND STUDY: this the the signature experimental prediction of the loss of magic theory and a key challenge to really disprove it.

Verdict: Too many reports to be swept away under placebo effect. Unsatisfactory.

***
***
Alternate theory:
There are bad chemists and bad batches do happen, but in general Dutch (and other) chemists haven't forgotten how to make MDMA after 40 years of doing it. Today's MDMA is just fine. But batches of good MDMA still differ in terms of purity levels and the types of impurities. Some users are more sensitive to these impurities. This sensitivity correlates with history of use. So an MDMA-naive user can get a magic experience from a wide range of material. Of course better material would still work better.

But many old users are much more picky. A lot of pretty average and adequate MDMA doesn't work for them, while their own old stash appears to work most consistently of all.

Verdict: let the rocks fly!

Part 2 of 2: But what about new MDMA-naive users who take this new MDMA and get no effects or don't get the right effects? [ to be continued... ]

 

[Negi]

There are bad chemists and bad batches do happen, but in general Dutch (and other) chemists haven't forgotten how to make MDMA after 40 years of doing it. Today's MDMA is just fine. But batches of good MDMA still differ in terms of purity levels and the types of impurities. Some users are more sensitive to these impurities.

You forgot to mention that this theory proposes that the impurities are totally undetectable to all currently deployed testing methods.

 

[indigoaura]

@mars2025 That was a pretty entertaining read. Looking forward to part 2.

For me personally, this all did not start out as "This new stuff doesn't work, must be something wrong with it." I actually started out more like, "MDMA doesn't work for me anymore, I guess I may have lost the magic." It was only after people came to me repeatedly with similar commentary and comments, and after I saw new users not reacting typically that I started to seriously wonder what was going on and found this thread.

 

[indigoaura]

You forgot to mention that this theory proposes that the impurities are totally undetectable to all currently deployed testing methods.

Negi, you know good and well that these pill reports that show only MDMA in a 500 mg pill are ignoring a ton of binders, fillers, and other ingredients. We also know from published research that synth byproducts are found in almost ALL apprehended street MDMA. That is how law enforcement tracks producers/importers/synth methods. So, obviously, testing companies are leaving information out. It may not be that they CAN'T detect it, just that they do not deem it significant enough to report.

We have published research showing that street MDMA contains synth byproducts that are different depending on synth method.
We have published research showing that synth byproducts can block the effects of MDMA.
It is not a huge stretch to hypothesize that this could be the core of the issue.

Once the culprit is identified, it would be a minor adjustment for testing companies to start reporting its presence in submitted samples.