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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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Opinions please...

I'm quarantined in my house and have literally been stuck here since early March. Not going to follow the 3 month rule right now. Whatever. There is some extreme boredom happening here.

So, next time I roll (prob in another 2 weeks or so), I am going to change a variable. Which variable should I change?

Option a) Take 2CB or LSD first.

Option b) Dissolve the MehDMA in a liquid to rule out a crystalline poly-morph issue.

Option c) Boof the MehDMA
 
indigoaura said:
Also, @TripSitterNZ , International Energy Control confirmed to me that the maximum purity they report is 100%. That means that my sample that tested as 80% MDMA is out of a total possible purity of 100%, not 84%.
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the only mdma that will test close to 100% is totally pharma grade mdma hydrate crystals not the mdma hcl. The only people will acesses to 99% + pure mdma is MAPS. Read their new article they posted they are going to answer your questions you have with their chemists.
 
mars2025 said:
This explanation doesn't seem to fit... It would imply that every single one of Rainey's q-dance pills has been fake. And further that if you (Indigo) and Rainey got Wilson's stash of the OG q-dance pills, then you would find them to be magic.
If you believe this to be the case, then surely finding authentic qdance pills is easier than finding impurities in the GC/MS spectra?

When academics research MDMA, they work with young (20s) male subjects who are MDMA-naive (virgins). Wilson is reasonably close to such ideal subject (some lifetime MDMA use but less than Rainey), so he gets magic from Q-Dance. I believe Wilson would also get magic from MAPS labgrade mdma, as well as from Rainey's old skool pills. This is true for most young people who buy all those millions of Dutch presses.

Now when Ann Shulgin lost the magic, she was the opposite of the above in terms of lifetime use, age and gender. For many such users, the window to a magic experience (call it ++1/2 or better on Shulgin's scale) is reduced. If you take the same 80% mdma that you've always taken, it'll continue to work in most cases. But some other 80% batch may not work for you. If you take a multiyear break, your body also may not be able to get the magic back. And of course if you have health changes and start/stop taking some other medication. Basically, for many older users with large lifetime use, getting to a +++ is a narrow window and a delicate balancing act.

That's my understanding at the moment. May well be wrong
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I had different batches every week to few weeks and one batch to the next
was always magic.no different batch didn't work bcoz I'm used to the other batch bullshit ever happened.youve made a really stupid point
 
TripSitterNZ said:
the only mdma that will test close to 100% is totally pharma grade mdma hydrate crystals not the mdma hcl. The only people will acesses to 99% + pure mdma is MAPS. Read their new article they posted they are going to answer your questions you have with their chemists.
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Did you even read the article that I linked to you? It explains the whole debate. It all depends on what testing methodology the lab is using. https://www.erowid.org/columns/crew/2017/01/oddity-testing-service-defines-pure-mdma-as-84-pure/
 
indigoaura said:
Did you even read the article that I linked to you? It explains the whole debate. It all depends on what testing methodology the lab is using. https://www.erowid.org/columns/crew/2017/01/oddity-testing-service-defines-pure-mdma-as-84-pure/
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yes but energy control are run by idiots tbh. When my plugs bring in kgs of mdma from holland it is listed as 84% as tested in the netherlands by official testing sites instead of the Spanish. 84% is what is the highest purity been sold technically the other 16% is HCL and various impurities.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
yes but energy control are run by idiots tbh. When my plugs bring in kgs of mdma from holland it is listed as 84% as tested in the netherlands by official testing sites instead of the Spanish. 84% is what is the highest purity been sold technically the other 16% is HCL and various impurities.
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Energy Control are not the only company who report up to 100% purity. Many of the testing companies reports 100% purity max, rather than 84% purity max.
 
sekio said:
I call BS. I've seen some very pure MDMA on GC...
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pure MDMA vs acutal pharma grade proper crystal polomorph mdma exclusive for human trials for PSTD are way different. Shit i would to get my hands on the MAPS mdma since it would be super amazing but the process is expensive. Does anybody here acutallly keep up to date on the articles maps posts?
 
TripSitterNZ said:
pure MDMA vs acutal pharma grade proper crystal polomorph mdma exclusive for human trials for PSTD are way different. Shit i would to get my hands on the MAPS mdma since it would be super amazing but the process is expensive. Does anybody here acutallly keep up to date on the articles maps posts?
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Yes, I posted the article you are referencing several pages back. I get their newsletters and read their updates.

My impression from reading that article was not that they were seeking to make a new crystalline polymorph, but that they had discovered previously unknown crystalline polymorphs during their process of producing MDMA.

Another significant lesson from the last 12 months of API development work was the discovery of two new polymorphic forms of MDMA, never seen previously in the literature. A polymorph refers to a well-defined crystalline structure, where the molecules are attached to each other in a repeatable pattern. A good example of this is C6 (carbon). Carbon will bond to itself six times to form the commonly known “benzene ring” molecule. However, the way these C6 molecules bond to each other can take different crystalline or polymorphic forms, such as diamond vs graphite. Both polymorphs are the same molecule—but one, diamond, is the hardest substance known and the other, graphite, one of the softest. This is an extreme example, but clearly shows why it is so important to understand the chemistry of any molecule that is being developed for human use.

Thankfully, in the case of MDMA, the polymorphism is not as extreme as carbon. But previously in the literature, based on the limited investigations, there was thought to be only one polymorph form of MDMA (“The ecstasy and the agony; compression studies of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine [MDMA]”, Acta Crystallographica Section B Structural Science, Crystal Engineering and Materials, 2015).

This MDMA polymorph form is the same that has been used in all MAPS sponsored studies to date, now known as “Form 1,” previously characterized through X-ray powder diffraction (XRPD). It is by far the most stable of the forms, and to force the MDMA molecules into the new polymorphs (Form 2 and Form 3) it requires manipulation using different solvents and crystallization techniques. Both Form 2 and Form 3 are metastable to Form 1, meaning that they easily revert to Form 1. However, now that their presence is known, identification of these forms has been added to the release and stability specifications via a method sensitive enough to identify them (even in small quantities relative to Form 1).
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A few of my other favorite quotes:

...the chemistry of MDMA, a well-known molecule first developed in 1912 and patented by Merck in 1914, is not exact, not yet fully known, and still requires detailed, stringent analyses and controls.
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The chemistry of MDMA is not a given, and requires expert development to get to the commercial standard we need to ensure patient access and safety at scale. However, it should not be expected that we will stop learning about the chemistry of this compound; changes in manufacturing process, scale, and product formulation can bring with them new challenges and lessons.
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However, even with this appropriately thorough approach from small-scale to large-scale development, the design space that was defined for Stage 2 of the reaction was shown to not completely predict the outcome.
Click to expand...
 
indigoaura said:
Opinions please...

I'm quarantined in my house and have literally been stuck here since early March. Not going to follow the 3 month rule right now. Whatever. There is some extreme boredom happening here.

So, next time I roll (prob in another 2 weeks or so), I am going to change a variable. Which variable should I change?

Option a) Take 2CB or LSD first.

Option b) Dissolve the MehDMA in a liquid to rule out a crystalline poly-morph issue.

Option c) Boof the MehDMA
Click to expand...

I don't know what option (b) would do, and option (c) would only give you a faster more intense come up.
I would choose do LSD first for a (almost) guaranteed good time.
I like to drop the tab about 3 hours before the MDMA.

My favorite flippers in best to less-best:
1. LSD
2. Shrooms (or 4-ACO-DMT)
3. 4-HO-MET or 4-HO-MiPT
4. I haven't experienced 2-CB...only 2-CE, 2-CD, 2CC
 
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indigoaura said:
Opinions please...

I'm quarantined in my house and have literally been stuck here since early March. Not going to follow the 3 month rule right now. Whatever. There is some extreme boredom happening here.

So, next time I roll (prob in another 2 weeks or so), I am going to change a variable. Which variable should I change?

Option a) Take 2CB or LSD first.

Option b) Dissolve the MehDMA in a liquid to rule out a crystalline poly-morph issue.

Option c) Boof the MehDMA
Click to expand...
Take LSD first wait 4 hours then take the mdma. Then another day you could take 2cb and mdma together at once or the 2cb a few hours in?
 
TripSitterNZ said:
Take LSD first wait 4 hours then take the mdma. Then another day you could take 2cb and mdma together at once or the 2cb a few hours in?
Click to expand...

Taking 2CB after MehDMA is horrible. I won't ever do that again. When I took the 2CB before the MDMA, it was better.
 
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MAPS said:
the synthetic pathway used for the MAPS synthesis of MDMA does not include safrole or related starting materials. Our key starting material is 5-bromo-1,3-benzodioxole, and its precursor, 1,2-methylenedioxybenzene, is likely synthesized in one step from catecho
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(ref)

To my knowledge, that route would indeed use safrole, the obvious chemistry is converting the aryl bromide to a Grignard and coupling with allyl bromide or such, yielding safrole, this is known in the literature Maybe they are producing piperonal via the Bouveault synthesis and going the nitroethane/MDP2P/reductive amination route?

Either way the chemistry is all known by now, I would be really suprised if there was a hitherto unknown side product that everyone missed.

pure MDMA vs acutal pharma grade proper crystal polomorph mdma exclusive for human trials for PSTD are way different.
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I'm a firm believer that MDMA is MDMA no matter how it's made. If it's pure on GC that's enough to convince me.

I usually administer MDMA in solution too, so polymorphs don't factor into the equation.
 
Apparently MAPS plans to release their full chemical process, so it will be interesting to read that full report when it comes out.

@sekio , you mentioned that the chemistry is all known, but MAPS does not seem to think so as they specifically commented, "...the chemistry of MDMA, a well-known molecule first developed in 1912 and patented by Merck in 1914, is not exact, not yet fully known, and still requires detailed, stringent analyses and controls" (MAPS).

@fasterfb I don't fully understand the crystalline poly-morph issue, but my limited understanding is that MDMA crystals can form in different configurations, and those configurations may have an impact on the drug's effects. I have been told by others in this thread that a simple solution is to just dissolve it and eliminate the crystals entirely. Gotta admit, that was a bit unclear to me too. Here is an article I found: https://symbiosisonlinepublishing.c...ciences/pharmacy-pharmaceuticalsciences11.php
 
Crystal polymorphs will only change the pharmacokinetics, not the actual effects of the drug. That is, some polymorphs may dissolve slower or faster than others.
However in solution, polymorphs are not relevant at all. MDMA in solution is... MDMA.

is not exact, not yet fully known,
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Maybe the super specifics aren't common knowledge, but it's not like some MDMA syntheses suddenly end up producing pink elephants coming out the flask, or totally different drugs. People have been studying all the reactions used in MDMA synthesis as well (peracid oxidation of alkenes, reductive amination, Nef reaction, nitroaldol/Henry reaction, etc) for many years. It's not untread territory. College students have made good MDMA before in their dorm room.
 
@indigoaura

Thanks for the link. I have a batch that is not as good as my other batch. It's not exactly mehmdma as described in this thread, but definitely not as good as the other batch
I was just wondering if there was a way to make it better.
Maybe I'll try purifying it and leave out the recrystallization step. Do you have any experience with cleaning?
 
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