What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[indigoaura]

@Jmoda I am not a doctor or a scientist, but I think there is a difference between monoamine transporters and monoamine oxidase. The Pifl paper is talking about monoamine transporters, and this post that you shared is talking about monoamine oxidase. I just realized I used the incorrect abbreviation in an earlier post, and I went back and changed it, my apologies for that.

Monoamine transporter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Monoamine oxidase - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The research that I have read is talking about the transporters themselves being blocked, which results in the MDMA effects being weakened, whereas blocking monoamine oxidase would have an effect on how the MDMA is broken down and eliminated (based on my limited understanding). As your link states, playing with MAO inhibitors and MDMA in the wrong way can be very dangerous.

 

[user666]

Curious what the comedown is like...

The comedown was gradual, with 1 day afterglow and the classic "Tuesday Blues" 2-3 days later.

 

[Specified]

In.what way is the MDMA no good these days?

 

[Negi]

In.what way is the MDMA no good these days?

Reading the start of the thread may prove enlightening. Here are the claims:

	Traditional (magic) MDMA	Sub-par (meh) MDMA
Mydriasis (eye dilation)	Yes	No
Enhanced tactile senses	Yes	No
Enhanced auditory senses	Yes	No
Enhanced aesthetic appreciation of music	Yes	No
Feelings of euphoria	Yes	No/reduced
Feelings of empathy	Yes	No/reduced
Pro-social behaviors	Yes	No
Energy	Yes	No
Feeling sleepy	No	Yes
Active desire to disengage from social interaction.	No	Yes
Enhanced erotic activity/making out	Yes	No
Feelings of love	Yes	No
Desire to be still	No	Yes
Jaw movement	Yes	Yes
Profuse Sweating/Feeling Hot	Yes	No
Feeling cold in warm environments	No	Yes
Duration	4-6 hours	1-3 hours
Comedown	Typically, gradual	Typically, abrupt
Flipping (mixing with LSD/2CB etc.)	Enhanced, synergistic effects of both substances	Reduced psychedelic effects when MDMA is taken first

 

[somethingfun]

Does anyone on here know Hamilton Morris? It would be great if someone could get him to look into the Magic Vs Meh

The difference in effect is so clear that they feel like different (but similar) substances. The Meh has no euphoria, love or magic. Have not had a batch of MDMA where I want to hug a bunch of strangers for years :-(

Best drug in the world when you get the good stuff. The Meh has sat in my cupboard untouched for over aa year (after first couple of tries)

 

[dalpat077]

Does anyone on here know Hamilton Morris? It would be great if someone could get him to look into the Magic Vs Meh

The difference in effect is so clear that they feel like different (but similar) substances. The Meh has no euphoria, love or magic. Have not had a batch of MDMA where I want to hug a bunch of strangers for years :-(

Best drug in the world when you get the good stuff. The Meh has sat in my cupboard untouched for over aa year (after first couple of tries)

Sorry for sticking my nose in here again (I don't think it's appreciated given that this isn't my field of expertise or interest and can contribute nothing really) (but I am nevertheless curious).

He (Hamilton Morris) has his own website. And I got no problem trying to get a hold of him if nobody else wants to (I've already got a huge target on my back so what the hell).

Also: I wonder if Vice wouldn't be interested (there's a Vice reporter lurking around here that I've had contact with but on another topic)?

Don't see either of them providing a quick solution though (although Hamilton Morris may already have been down this rabbit hole for all I/we know).

What I would REALLY like to know is what happened to the dude that was in the Netflix series "The Business of Drugs"? I forget his name now. But apparently he was the shit when it came to quality product and was known for it (well that's the impression I was under anyway as a result of said documentary). Guaranteed he'd have the answers. And I'd find it very hard to believe that not a single person here has been in contact with said dude.

Matter of fact: fuck it (unless there's any objections). Lemme try get a hold of one of these dudes and point them to these threads. Who knows. Maybe ya'll get the answers that you seek. Stranger things have happened (in my life anyway).

 

[dalpat077]

Let it never be said that I'm not a man of my word! Message sent. Will follow up on Twitter if needs be!

"Hi.

Sorry to bother. But I'm contacting you on behalf of a certain forum and its members (not with their sanction i.e. I undertook to contact you myself).

Long story short: for years now they've had mega threads going on the topic of "What is wrong with the MDMA available today?". Apparently most of this stuff nowadays tests 100% legitimate as MDMA in controlled laboratories but apparently does not have the same effects as it used to have in the '80's etc. and it's driving them nuts. Not so much from a user point of view but more from a scientific point of view really. And they're obviously keen to get to the bottom of this. And, well, I figured that if anybody could shed some light on this topic it could be you maybe?

Or it could make for an interesting investigation and a documentary maybe?

Feel free to ignore this message if it offends you. All I ask is that you acknowledge receipt thereof so that I'm not left hanging and can report back to the members (in whatever manner you'd prefer me to).

For what it's worth: I'm not an addict of any kind nor a substance abuser and MDMA use or abuse has never been on my radar. My own personal interest in this is purely from a pharmacological point of view. But of course: would really like to be able to help my fellow forum members out and try put this to bed once and for all.

Regards,

Tony."

Now where is that Vice reporter!

P.S. If anything comes of this ya'll gonna be having a whip around and sending me some Coca Leaf! Deal? And I don't mean a few teabags either (just so that we're clear on this)!

 

[dalpat077]

Just trying to help (unselfish act believe it or not). Am really curious from a chemistry point of view (as noted several majestic, and probably painful, times prior).

Have sent @sjnichols a PM (he's an independant contributor to Vice as some will know).

To be honest (and don't laugh): I'm also actually coming at this from a harm reduction point of view. If this shit isn't doing what it's meant to do: who knows what it's being cut with or produced with. Could be that whatever the case: you're dealing with substances that are harmful and that don't show up in tests yet because nobody knows what to be looking for and that there's no GCMS reference templates.

And frankly: this is one of the drugs that I reckon could be and should be legalized (and certainly not for my own benefit). Point is: with this particular substance the entire production process could be carefully monitored and tested and kept within a country's borders and quality controlled. While this may not be of particular interest to me: I do tend to research things and have spent some (spare) time on this. The shit with this substance happens when it's cut or poorly produced. That's what I've been able to gather anyway.

 

[G_Chem]

Hamilton is well aware of our discussion and will want no part. To be honest, he’s just a TV figure.. He’ll say what he said before, tolerance. He scoffs at this phenomenon.


I noticed someone on Reddit talking about colors of MDMA batches, and was saying he’s been seeing a lot more impure batches in 2010’s than in the past. I can’t say I agree based on my personal experience but I believe it based on pictures of others product.


Also guys if ya’ll remember me saying another drought might be coming. We’re starting to really see the effects of the new regulations. More and more fake/cut stuff showing up on Drugs Data. And the last group of submissions from Europe which show MG content show pills are dropping down to 110-150mg VS 200+.

Maybe this is why some people have been finding good stuff more. This is opening up room once again for smaller niche chemists to actually make a profit. The Dutch labs shut a lot of people down in the beginning of this decade, including my beloved MintMan. (Thankfully not all of our domestic..)

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

And the last group of submissions from Europe which show MG content show pills are dropping down to 110-150mg VS 200+.

This seems like it could be a good thing. If the dosages are starting to be more in line with recommended dosages, maybe the product is more legit?

@dalpat077 - Thanks for your contributions!

 

[magickmarck]

I’m pleased to see this thread. I too have had about 3-4 pressed rolls in the last 5 years (some testing on ecstasydata at 200 or so mg), none of which reflected my past experiences with MDMA. They didn’t seem terribly different than Adderall or perhaps meth, but less effectively energizing and slightly more psychedelic in effect. I really wanted the therapeutic effect I remembered from the late 90s. I chalked it up to my brain having processed many psych meds since — it’s good to see it wasn’t just me. I remain hopeful... thanks everyone.

 

[dalpat077]

Thanks for your contributions!

My pleasure. It's the best I can do for you though I'm afraid. And no response as yet either. And from what I gather from another post above: probably shouldn't be holding my breath.

If it's any consolation I know how you feel i.e. if I were still a user I'd be mighty pissed if there was something wrong with Cocaine and I couldn't get to the bottom of it! There'd be TEN threads each on TWENTY different forums on the topic by now!

 

[indigoaura]

I’m pleased to see this thread. I too have had about 3-4 pressed rolls in the last 5 years (some testing on ecstasydata at 200 or so mg), none of which reflected my past experiences with MDMA. They didn’t seem terribly different than Adderall or perhaps meth, but less effectively energizing and slightly more psychedelic in effect. I really wanted the therapeutic effect I remembered from the late 90s. I chalked it up to my brain having processed many psych meds since — it’s good to see it wasn’t just me. I remain hopeful... thanks everyone.

Have you had any positive MDMA experiences in the last five years, or have they all been subpar?

 

[Jmoda]

Hamilton is well aware of our discussion and will want no part. To be honest, he’s just a TV figure.. He’ll say what he said before, tolerance. He scoffs at this phenomenon.


I noticed someone on Reddit talking about colors of MDMA batches, and was saying he’s been seeing a lot more impure batches in 2010’s than in the past. I can’t say I agree based on my personal experience but I believe it based on pictures of others product.


Also guys if ya’ll remember me saying another drought might be coming. We’re starting to really see the effects of the new regulations. More and more fake/cut stuff showing up on Drugs Data. And the last group of submissions from Europe which show MG content show pills are dropping down to 110-150mg VS 200+.

Maybe this is why some people have been finding good stuff more. This is opening up room once again for smaller niche chemists to actually make a profit. The Dutch labs shut a lot of people down in the beginning of this decade, including my beloved MintMan. (Thankfully not all of our domestic..)

-GC

Was the mintman shut out by competition or other...governmental...forces?

 

[G_Chem]

Was the mintman shut out by competition or other...governmental...forces?

My impression is competition. There were some big busts of mints but they never found the lab and never took down the “man.”

2013 was the last good mint year and that was also when lots of good crystal MDMA and MDA were flooding in from both Canada and the Netherlands.

I specifically remember that summer people kind of switching over because they were “sick of mints.” Although I definitely wasn’t..

That winter was the last time I ever bought legit mints. If I remember right, Pink O’s and Purple Blanks.

Almost immediately there came out these new “mints” that were quite obviously (to me at least) pressed by someone new. There was red bowling balls that were glossy and the 3 holes were centered instead of one hanging off like the legit mints.

I remember being in MKE for a show and this dude came up to me trying to sell them to me. He looked like he was tweaking and I asked him if he was rolling on said pills which he said “yes.” That was all I needed to know they weren’t the real mints, real mints never got you feeling tweaked or off.

Mints were to me, the biggest reason I began researching MDMA batch differences. Because to me those were the cleanest MDMA products I’d ever tried. The smoothness and perfect combo ratios made for some great experiences. Back then people would say “the synth was different” to explain it.

But they couldn’t compete unfortunately with high quality MDMA crystal half the price, and Dutch presses with 2x the MG. While the crystal MDMA hasn’t disappointed me, I still can’t help but miss those old presses.

Also to add onto my theory that they just quit the game, the last presses they put it out started to drop in quantity almost as if they were running low on product. Then they put out one final amazing batch and that was it.

I could go on and on about them lol as ya’ll can probably tell. From my first mint experience in 2007 or so til the final days in 2013 that crew was one of the best.

-GC

 

[Jmoda]

My impression is competition. There were some big busts of mints but they never found the lab and never took down the “man.”

2013 was the last good mint year and that was also when lots of good crystal MDMA and MDA were flooding in from both Canada and the Netherlands.

I specifically remember that summer people kind of switching over because they were “sick of mints.” Although I definitely wasn’t..

That winter was the last time I ever bought legit mints. If I remember right, Pink O’s and Purple Blanks.

Almost immediately there came out these new “mints” that were quite obviously (to me at least) pressed by someone new. There was red bowling balls that were glossy and the 3 holes were centered instead of one hanging off like the legit mints.

I remember being in MKE for a show and this dude came up to me trying to sell them to me. He looked like he was tweaking and I asked him if he was rolling on said pills which he said “yes.” That was all I needed to know they weren’t the real mints, real mints never got you feeling tweaked or off.

Mints were to me, the biggest reason I began researching MDMA batch differences. Because to me those were the cleanest MDMA products I’d ever tried. The smoothness and perfect combo ratios made for some great experiences. Back then people would say “the synth was different” to explain it.

But they couldn’t compete unfortunately with high quality MDMA crystal half the price, and Dutch presses with 2x the MG. While the crystal MDMA hasn’t disappointed me, I still can’t help but miss those old presses.

Also to add onto my theory that they just quit the game, the last presses they put it out started to drop in quantity almost as if they were running low on product. Then they put out one final amazing batch and that was it.

I could go on and on about them lol as ya’ll can probably tell. From my first mint experience in 2007 or so til the final days in 2013 that crew was one of the best.

-GC

I never got mints when i shouldve, for that very reason you mentioned. The NL product at that time was quite good. Tho, i wish still i had dabbled in mints to know what they were like.

I do recall glossy mints coming out and people saying they were fake. They had to be tiny, they had to be on the verge of crumbling, and you could see the shards in there...never had mints, but i knew that much haha.

Still crazy to me that they just stopped production, but i guess no business is safe from economic forces. Hopefully they start back up! The times seem prime for a mints/pokeballs resurgence....ha

 

[AutoTripper]

I never got mints when i shouldve, for that very reason you mentioned. The NL product at that time was quite good. Tho, i wish still i had dabbled in mints to know what they were like.

I do recall glossy mints coming out and people saying they were fake. They had to be tiny, they had to be on the verge of crumbling, and you could see the shards in there...never had mints, but i knew that much haha.

Still crazy to me that they just stopped production, but i guess no business is safe from economic forces. Hopefully they start back up! The times seem prime for a mints/pokeballs resurgence....ha

Yeah, despite my blessed years of such supreme quality pressed, powder crystal... I de feel left out to have missed those mints, seemingly so highly enjoable regarded across the board, as if something quite special. By the sounds of it. So I'm right with you on that one.

 

[Jmoda]

Yeah, despite my blessed years of such supreme quakity pressed, powder crystal... I de feell left oit to have missed those mints, seemingly so highly enjoable regarded across the board, as if something quite special. By the sounds of it. Do I'm right with you on that one.

I have a friend that apparently used to have a big pile of these in good supply while he was in college. Says they popped em like candy....and it was great everytime.

As an aside, some part of me wonders if the difference in batches relates to the mechanics of the serotonin dump mechanism....for instance anectdotally 5mapb and 6apb can be used more frequently than every three months because they dont completely dump out your serotonin, i think there was some guy in here that was saying he took it for like 3 weeks in a row and it worked everytime.

I wonder similarly, and in theory, if there is mdma that dumps the just right enough amount, but still leaves a bunch in reserves. Definitely also fully convinced that the flow of the dumping is different from batch to batch. The medium stuff....all upfront, then huge drop off. Magic...consistent and smooth till the very end. Theres gotta be something to it.

I imagine it to be like getting water dumped on by bucket vs soaked with a hose

 

[G_Chem]

I never got mints when i shouldve, for that very reason you mentioned. The NL product at that time was quite good. Tho, i wish still i had dabbled in mints to know what they were like.

I do recall glossy mints coming out and people saying they were fake. They had to be tiny, they had to be on the verge of crumbling, and you could see the shards in there...never had mints, but i knew that much haha.

Still crazy to me that they just stopped production, but i guess no business is safe from economic forces. Hopefully they start back up! The times seem prime for a mints/pokeballs resurgence....ha

Yea completely understand, they were kinda expensive even with connections. That said, I remember the scene changed when they left. Those mints brought about some of the best experiences I’ve ever had over 2012-13.

There was a love in the air, a kindness that seemed to fade away with them.

Haha ya so crumbly and weak cuz they had like 20mg filler in em, loved that.

One day the magical mint man shall return, and we’ll all ascend to heaven

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

Yeah, despite my blessed years of such supreme quality pressed, powder crystal... I de feel left out to have missed those mints, seemingly so highly enjoable regarded across the board, as if something quite special. By the sounds of it. So I'm right with you on that one.

If it makes you feel better man they were somewhat of a “local” press. They never made it too far from their city of origin. (Chicago)

I have a friend that apparently used to have a big pile of these in good supply while he was in college. Says they popped em like candy....and it was great everytime.

As an aside, some part of me wonders if the difference in batches relates to the mechanics of the serotonin dump mechanism....for instance anectdotally 5mapb and 6apb can be used more frequently than every three months because they dont completely dump out your serotonin, i think there was some guy in here that was saying he took it for like 3 weeks in a row and it worked everytime.

I wonder similarly, and in theory, if there is mdma that dumps the just right enough amount, but still leaves a bunch in reserves. Definitely also fully convinced that the flow of the dumping is different from batch to batch. The medium stuff....all upfront, then huge drop off. Magic...consistent and smooth till the very end. Theres gotta be something to it.

I imagine it to be like getting water dumped on by bucket vs soaked with a hose

Interesting theory.

The best way to describe the mint roll was you almost didn’t even feel like you were high on a drug but you just had an overwhelming desire to talk and love for others came easily.

That’s how I like to differentiate between less pure MDMA vs really pure MDMA. It’s not like a drug, you don’t really feel much physically, but you are just loved up there’s no way you could feel like that without being high lol.

Also many mints were combo pills. Many had MDMA/MDA mixes, which MDA is less tolerance producing. Aka you can eat it more often, not that it’s good for you but you can. My only rough mint comedown was my first back in 07 but that was a straight MDA press and likely was still in their learning stages.

There was even one mint that people couldn’t figure out but I was certain contained just the right amount of high purity meth. We all felt amazing but come 8-9hrs later and still feeling wonderful we concluded there was something else. But in typical mint man fashion was the perfect amount whatever it was..

Alright I’ll stop derailing with my nostalgia

-GC