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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

So earlier in this new thread I speak of certain safrole sources containing other precursors for other psychedelic amphetamines...

Well here’s a great thread that goes over PMMA as a possible constituent in earlier MDMA batches as well. It isn’t found in commercial PMK though.

PMA & MDMA; a new look at an old devil

PMA & MDMA; a new look at an old devil News articles highlighting the dangers of ecstasy often claim PMA is a contaminant in MDMA. Paul Dillon was once quoted as saying PMA was produced from side reactions during synthesis, but no satisfactory explanation was offered which described how his...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org

PMMA is a substance that could very well effect things via MAOI and it’s own psychoactive effects. Add in the high possibility of 3,4-DMMA also being an impurity...

We have two impurities which would potentiate the MDMA via MAOI and enzyme inhibition.

I think this for me explains why some batches which smell of safrole can last nearly all night. Certain batches of MDMA drop off hard around 4-5hrs post dosing (often scentless), other batches like a few I’ve been eating over the years can have you still feeling a little rolly 7-8hrs later. I know MDA well enough in effect and with reagents to write that off..

I suggest reading that thread plus others from phase dancer as he has a good grasp on MDMA batch variation.

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
PMMA is a substance that could very well effect things via MAOI and it’s own psychoactive effects. Add in the high possibility of 3,4-DMMA also being an impurity...
We have two impurities which would potentiate the MDMA via MAOI and enzyme inhibition.
Click to expand...
That would mean the GMP MDMA used by MAPS is not potentiated that way. Do their reports agree ?
 
I am really starting to see this issue sort of like Instagram. Hear me out...

You have the MDMA which is like the original photo, but the synthesis byproducts are like the filters. Some of them dull the color, some of them enhance it.

maps.org

The Commercial Chemistry of MDMA: From Research to Patient Access

Written by Heather Clouting, M.Sc. MAPS Bulletin Spring 2020: Vol. 30, No. 1 Download this article. Nearly 20 years ago, during our final year of university while studying for our Bachelor’s in chemistry, I thought that two fellow students and I were rebels for suggesting that our organic...
maps.org maps.org

I know we have shared this many times, but the graph is really interesting to me. Does this imply that variations in temperature can result in a product that contains -dimer or -benzo contaminants/variations?

Graph.jpg
 
user666 said:
That would mean the GMP MDMA used by MAPS is not potentiated that way. Do their reports agree ?
Click to expand...

Yup. I don’t think this is the culprit but we need to consider all variables, and once that’s done we begin to see just how complex answering this question definitively is..

Indigo said it perfectly, some impurities bring a desirable effect others not so much. To complicate even more, what one may consider desirable another may not enjoy.

I recently saw a post on Reddit of user complaining about getting a hyper sexual full body orgasm, pretty much describing the exact effects Indigo is seeking. (As well as others here I’m sure lol, I know I like feeling like my whole body is in a prolonged orgasmic state.)

What I think impurities also do is (in some cases) reduce tolerance compared to using one isolated molecule over and over again. I feel I’ve gotten semi tolerant to certain batches if I use them too often. But I could also see other impurities causing long term tolerance especially if larger than average doses are taken in an effort to get where the user wants to be.

That graph is interesting unfortunately my mind can’t make sense of it right now but hopefully someone else can.

-GC
 
The criteria accepted here for real MDMA is very rigid but MEHDMA has a wide range of negative and positive effects listed. Post #2 says that it can't be the user because one time users report MEHDMA effects. I can't find these reports in the last thread though. Is there a link? Also, where did the listed effect profiles come from?
Thanks.
 
Ambien Powered Rabbit said:
The criteria accepted here for real MDMA is very rigid but MEHDMA has a wide range of negative and positive effects listed. Post #2 says that it can't be the user because one time users report MEHDMA effects. I can't find these reports in the last thread though. Is there a link? Also, where did the listed effect profiles come from?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Hi!

There is a previous thread that is 300+ pages long. In the course of that thread from 2016 to 2020, there are many reports. It would take a long time to make it through the whole thread though, which is why I condensed and summarized a lot of the information from the original thread into post 2 of this thread. I compiled the chart of the effects based on all of the posts in the original thread.

Link to original thread: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-mdma-available-today.791073/

I personally was present when multiple people new to MDMA took "meh-DMA" and did not note any of the typical effects in the individuals. One said it was "ok" and another did not want to be touched and went to a very negative headspace for the evening. Neither one appeared to be under the influence of MDMA and did not exhibit "touchy feely" tendencies or other visual cues.

There was another user whose wife was new to MDMA, and they enjoyed several sessions together and then changed suppliers. They both found the new product to be subpar and "meh", even through the wife had only a limited experience with MDMA prior to the change in suppliers. https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14676799

Here is another report of "virgin" users: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...-available-today.791073/page-21#post-14220371

There are quite a few other reports that involve new users sprinkled throughout the original thread. Perhaps other posters can chime in if they recall any specifically.

Also, would you elaborate on what you mean when you say that the criteria for relax MDMA is very rigid? Would you also elaborate on your own experience with MDMA?
 
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Ambien Powered Rabbit said:
The criteria accepted here for real MDMA is very rigid but MEHDMA has a wide range of negative and positive effects listed.
Click to expand...
That's been a point of frustration for me in the thread.

indigoaura said:
Here is another report of "virgin" users: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...-available-today.791073/page-21#post-14220371
Click to expand...
Not sure if I remember seeing this one before. I find the ages a little interesting. Didn't you recently mention that the new users with negative experiences you knew were older in age?
 
Negi said:
That's been a point of frustration for me in the thread.


Not sure if I remember seeing this one before. I find the ages a little interesting. Didn't you recently mention that the new users with negative experiences you knew were older in age?
Click to expand...
Yes, I was thinking about that recently. One of the people I observed was around 35 at the time, and the other person was probably around 26-28 or so. I did not know her well, but she was definitely older than I was in my early years of use. Another, who had a minimal history with MDMA was also around 35.
 
@Negi I went back and read the post you just linked that details your frustration. I really think there is significant batch variation, just in general. I would theorize this is due to the balance of synthesis byproducts and contaminants in each batch, overall purity etc. I had three different "meh" batches in 2020, and they each had a pretty specific tone. Two of them were so bad I would throw them away. One was much better than the other two, but still not reaching the experiences I had previously.
 
Negi said:
Not sure if I remember seeing this one before. I find the ages a little interesting. Didn't you recently mention that the new users with negative experiences you knew were older in age?
Click to expand...

If you're implying that an older virgin user is more likely to experience MehDMA effects than a younger virgin user then I dont think it's that simple. I was in my 30s when I first started taking MDMA. I got all the classic effects nearly everytime. I then had a break from 2004 to 2012 and when I got back into the saddle, everything had changed. I've been searching for the good shit ever since and have found it only twice. But the fact I've found it at all shows that it's not me, its the drugs...



This guy knows his shit:



upload pic
 
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Yea I’ve watched lots of older users try for the first time and roll hard. I’m in my 30’s and still have the magic fully even using MDMA pretty much “non stop” (safely) since I was 16.

That said I did have trouble trying to get dad to roll. He did heavily use cocaine when younger, very heavily. He was also in his mid 50’s or so.. It wasn’t negative, just not as overwhelming as I would have liked. Also had some odd circumstances happen during his last experience with a good solid dose, that ruined his time.

I think a couple of old timers here and there not feeling it is one thing. A group of late 20 to mid 30 somethings shouldn’t all not feel it.

-GC
 
My partner had never taken MDMA but knew i was very fond of it so when he found a source last year he got some and we took it together. We didn’t test it (mistake) but I’ve done my fair share enough to know it was not the “good stuff”, but it did produce a mild euphoric feeling, just not enough of one to really be noteworthy. Though it wasn’t tested, so I can’t say for certain what the chemical makeup was, my partner hated it and about 2 hours in wanted to lay down and go to bed. Now he has no interest in trying it again and it seems impossible to find around here, anyway. I used it most when living down south between 2011 and 2014. Pills, capsules, crystals, there was no shortage of sources and everyone was into it. Now no one has it or whatever is found does not seem to be pure MDMA.
 
Blueberry_87 said:
I used it most when living down south between 2011 and 2014. Pills, capsules, crystals, there was no shortage of sources and everyone was into it. Now no one has it or whatever is found does not seem to be pure MDMA.
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When was the first time you took MDMA? Many of the users in the thread seem to have started using quite a bit earlier (I see late 90's early 2000's mentioned a lot) so it would be interesting to see people who started using much later having similar experiences. Also were you testing the MDMA you took in that period?
 
Shulgin was 51 years old when he rediscovered MDMA. People like Leo Zeff and Myron Stolaroff were even older when they got in to MDMA. So I really don't think age influence experience. I first took MDMA in 1987. Than again after a very long hiatus about 4 years ago. Had a gram of magic MDMA. Since than bought about 8 different kinds of MehDMA. Lifetime consumpton of magic MDMA about 1,2 g. Than about 1,5-2 g of MehDMA. All use with at least 2 month between dosing. So I think that I definately I should be able to feel some magic good product. But with the garbage beeing sold on DN in northern Europe, I prefere 3-FEA to the available MehDMA. I wonder if the good reviews some of the MehDMA I've bought is because the reviewer never had magic MDMA; because the seller sell some buyers magic MDMA or if it is just from fake customers affiliated with the seller...
 
PsychedelicSummer said:
Than again after a very long hiatus about 4 years ago. Had a gram of magic MDMA. Since than bought about 8 different kinds of MehDMA.
Click to expand...
Was the use of the different batches mixed or did you finish off the magic MDMA and after that only find mehDMA?
 
PsychedelicSummer said:
Shulgin was 51 years old when he rediscovered MDMA. People like Leo Zeff and Myron Stolaroff were even older when they got in to MDMA. So I really don't think age influence experience. I first took MDMA in 1987. Than again after a very long hiatus about 4 years ago. Had a gram of magic MDMA. Since than bought about 8 different kinds of MehDMA. Lifetime consumpton of magic MDMA about 1,2 g. Than about 1,5-2 g of MehDMA. All use with at least 2 month between dosing. So I think that I definately I should be able to feel some magic good product. But with the garbage beeing sold on DN in northern Europe, I prefere 3-FEA to the available MehDMA. I wonder if the good reviews some of the MehDMA I've bought is because the reviewer never had magic MDMA; because the seller sell some buyers magic MDMA or if it is just from fake customers affiliated with the seller...
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is the case with your vendor, but some of the vendors are using different sources for each batch. I had one batch from this vendor that was ok. Not magic, but ok. Not the worst I have tried. Then, recently, I had a new batch from the same vendor. Visually, it was clearly not the same product. Different color, different crystals, etc. This batch was just awful. Honestly, one of the worst of the worst meh batches I have had. So, I don't think the vendors are consistent with where they are sourcing from.
 
indigoaura said:
I don't know if this is the case with your vendor, but some of the vendors are using different sources for each batch. I had one batch from this vendor that was ok. Not magic, but ok. Not the worst I have tried. Then, recently, I had a new batch from the same vendor. Visually, it was clearly not the same product. Different color, different crystals, etc. This batch was just awful. Honestly, one of the worst of the worst meh batches I have had. So, I don't think the vendors are consistent with where they are sourcing from.
Click to expand...
alot of people usually only land small packages in like 50 g a time to get through customs but on a constant rate to multiple drops so the batches should vary quite often.
 
Negi said:
Was the use of the different batches mixed or did you finish off the magic MDMA and after that only find mehDMA?
Click to expand...
I'm quite sure that I did try some of my second batch (MehDMA) before using the last of my magic.

@indigoaura: Most of my MehDMA was sourced from different vendors. Many vendors seem to get different batches often, though occationally some seem to have a lot of the same which they may sell for 6-12 months. Most common varieties are advertised as Dutch "Champagne" and quite often many vendors seem to have product from the same batch (judging from pictures).
 
indigoaura said:
Hi!

There is a previous thread that is 300+ pages long. In the course of that thread from 2016 to 2020, there are many reports. It would take a long time to make it through the whole thread though, which is why I condensed and summarized a lot of the information from the original thread into post 2 of this thread. I compiled the chart of the effects based on all of the posts in the original thread.

Link to original thread: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-mdma-available-today.791073/

I personally was present when multiple people new to MDMA took "meh-DMA" and did not note any of the typical effects in the individuals. One said it was "ok" and another did not want to be touched and went to a very negative headspace for the evening. Neither one appeared to be under the influence of MDMA and did not exhibit "touchy feely" tendencies or other visual cues.

There was another user whose wife was new to MDMA, and they enjoyed several sessions together and then changed suppliers. They both found the new product to be subpar and "meh", even through the wife had only a limited experience with MDMA prior to the change in suppliers. https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14676799

Here is another report of "virgin" users: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...-available-today.791073/page-21#post-14220371

There are quite a few other reports that involve new users sprinkled throughout the original thread. Perhaps other posters can chime in if they recall any specifically.

Also, would you elaborate on what you mean when you say that the criteria for relax MDMA is very rigid? Would you also elaborate on your own experience with MDMA?
Click to expand...
I am looking for reports from first time users who had taken tested product and experienced something which could not be attributed to MDMA.
 
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