War on Drugs a Success

What ever didn't I understand? A fucking monkey can Google drug studies and post the findings...now maybe some of them are with merit, but if you're quoting them as "facts"...well, it deserves the ol' quotation marks!

Throwing people in prison for choosing to use substances deemed illegal, and destroying them and their families lives is a travesty! The "War on Drugs" is a waste of time and money...and far more damaging to society than drugs could ever be! That happens to be my opinion, but it's true...no citations needed!
 
hey fly, its great that you think abstaining from drugs makes you a good human being. even though you probably are not. sounds like you have a cushiony, well-supported ego that doesnt smoke anything the government doesnt want it to. you can keep your free beer and your righteous tobacco statistics, ill be enjoying my tasty, non-addictive joints.
 
poledriver said:
I'm not sure I believe all the facts all the time.
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Facts aren't a matter of belief. Be sceptical, question everything, but don't just deny facts when they are presented, investigate them and find out for yourself. That's my phil-o-soph-ee anyway ;) :D
 
pmoseman said:
bit pattern,

I don't know whether to take you seriously anymore. It is 1.5 cigarettes in 7 days and it was from the surgeon general. Take it or leave it.
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I'll "take it" when you offer it - citations or GTFO

You can use whichever statistic, lifetime prevelance or past month usage, you think works best.
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No. Statistics aren't about being twisted to fit in a way that "you think works best". They are what they are. Yes, there HAS been a decline in a certain metric of defining drug use - but that particular metric does not define attitudes towards drugs in the US. The DEA-hack you proffered as an authoritative source has been shown to be manipiulating facts to what he thinks works best for his argument, that's a shoddy approach to anything and should be dismissed out of hand by any right thinking person.

So far, from the statistics of prison population you posted and illicit drug use neversickanymore posted, from 1978 to 2008 there are 10 fewer drug users for each 1 person that was put into prison.

Was it because Afghanistan was at war? Has that stopped the current drug trade?

I want to compare the value of sending people to prison with lowered drug use, on a national level, but... do we know how long each person spent in prison, since some of those were merely awaiting trial, and how many were drug charges?

Do we know what illicit drugs people stopped using and how "use" is defined?
Until we do, valid comparisons are not possible.
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Like I said, that was my *own* fly by the seat of my arse conjecture - hell if you can do it - I never said it had any factual basis at all. It's something I'd be interested in knowing though. The interruption of heroin and the introduction of cheap, crack cocaine were two major events that happened in very close sequence, in light of that I'd say it is premature to give all to the credit to drug law enforcement - which was what the person i was replying to was suggesting with their devil's-advocacy


opi8,

Aren't you from Australia?
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I am too, what's your point?
 
theWhiteLarryBird said:
hey fly, its great that you think abstaining from drugs makes you a good human being. even though you probably are not. sounds like you have a cushiony, well-supported ego that doesnt smoke anything the government doesnt want it to. you can keep your free beer and your righteous tobacco statistics, ill be enjoying my tasty, non-addictive joints.
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Take a toke for me, bretheren
 
BlueHues said:
Nobody should ever think for themselves or formulate their own opinions....All arguments should be strictly based on the "facts" discovered by others...

Or, pick up a phone book, call every tenth number and ask them what drugs they've used, and then you'd be able to present your very own "facts"! If nothing else, maybe ten years from now, some poor sap with with dismal rhetorical writing ability will cite you while trying to win an argument on a drug discussion message board!
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Can you suggest a more effective methodology that gives a better understanding of social trends? I mean, shit, if you do - do not hold back, there are fat research grants to be had, if you've got a better means then, by all means, do it! until then, we need to rely on the qualitative data available to us and make the best policy judgements we can based on that data.

If you've got a better idea...
 
BlueHues said:
What ever didn't I understand? A fucking monkey can Google drug studies and post the findings...now maybe some of them are with merit, but if you're quoting them as "facts"...well, it deserves the ol' quotation marks!
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Yup. Followed by footnotes and references so the rest of us can confirm that said "facts" really are factual.
 
I just took a big hit on a Volcano bag in your honour... holding, holding, holding... aaaand... exhale. Jah rastafarii!
 
For pmoseman, from the village people:

♪ And the Black Fly ♪
♪ The little Black Fly ♪

♪ Always the Black Fly ♪
♪ No matter where you go ♪

♪ I'll die with the Black Fly ♪
♪ Picking my bones ♪

♪ In North Ontario-io ♪

♪ In North Ontario ♪
 
Dang! Here I am and I am out of weed, I guess I am going to have to again support the black market tax free herb of which I am not allowed to grow my own or obtain it legally.
I am only living once, and in this life I smoke weed, and weed I will get.

Damned good shit at that! And it costs about $120.00/Oz less than it did many years ago.
Black Market is more than meeting demand.

If it was legal, who would sell it? No profit.
It would then be harder to find.
 
Figures are a range of possibilities that describe an incomplete set of (a number of) attributes of reality. The circumference of the moon is a range of values, even with the most accurate methods and choices you will never be measuring the same moon. (+/-100 miles)
Facts are simple statements within the variable universe that are themselves known to be accurate.
The moon has a circumference smaller than that of the Earth. c.2013
bit pattern said:
The DEA-hack you proffered as an authoritative source has been shown to be manipiulating facts to what he thinks works best for his argument, that's a shoddy approach to anything and should be dismissed out of hand by any right thinking person.
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And if he was a turncoat what would you make of his authority?
 
. I f the war on drugs is measured as a success by the misery it has caused upon the people of these United States, I will give you that. Weren't you the same OP that wanted to schedule pot @ 3?
 
The Turkish opium ban in conjunction with the breaking of the French Connection contributed to the United States' heroin drought of the early 1970s. Interdiction also disrupted US cocaine markets, notably 1989-90, marking the end of the 1980 expansion in cocaine problems.

Transient price increases can have meaningful effects. Lives are saved as overdoses decline, such as occured after the imposition of controls on precursors for methamphetamine and the mid-1995 interdiction of the Peruvian air bridge.

Most people initiate within a narrow band of ages. If they pass through that window of vulnerability during a supply shortage, the initiation may be prevented and heavy-users may seek treatment, discontinuing patterns of abuse. As was seen in the Australian heroin drought, brought about most plausibly by interdiction. 8
 
RTrain said:
Show me the statistics that prove it is the people who are being prescribed the medication for pain that are the majority of OD deaths from prescription painkiller and then maybe this argument holds some weight,
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It is known that the deaths before 1978 were not related to the drug war and we have not seen anything but a drop in the death rate, because we've seen an increase of 10 times the use of prescription painkillers but only 3 times as many deaths. So there is nothing left to explain.
 
"I know because from 1976 to 1981, I was administrator of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. In 1976, we had more than 500,000 heroin addicts and over 2,000 heroin overdose deaths. This has decreased significantly; currently there are 200,000 heroin users, less than half the number of 35 years ago and half the heroin overdose deaths."

I think that others might challenge the number of heroin users he is stating. Here is another media story from today that would bring his numbers into question.

"The number of heroin users remains lower than for illicit substances such as cocaine, but experts are particularly concerned by the speed of the increase in recent years. A study by an arm of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services found that 669,000 people used heroin in 2012, up from 373,000 in 2007."

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas-rising-heroin-addiction/article16723525/
 
nfr-Fig2-4-2k12.gif

Fig8-6.gif

9
This is the 2012 report published in 2013, looking at figures from 2011. I assume in 2011, when the article was written, they were looking at figures from 2009.
Drug "users", from what I have seen, is commonly taken to mean "past month use".
 
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pmoseman said:
http://www.samhsa.gov/data/NSDUH/2012SummNatFindDetTables/NationalFindings/gifs/nfr-Fig2-4-2k12.gif
http://www.samhsa.gov/data/nsduh/2k11results/gifs/Fig8-6.gif
9
This is the 2012 report published in 2013, looking at figures from 2011. I assume in 2011, when the article was written, they were looking at figures from 2009.
Drug "users", from what I have seen, is commonly taken to mean "past month use".
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Lol, so the figure is *actually* closer to a million - but you're lot decided to promote the lowest metric out of those available to give the impression that the problem is much smaller than it really is? Just as long as we've got that cleared up :D
 
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