Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

[turkalurk]

I can read what he wrote, and I understood from the begining that he does not believe in fate.

However, he claims this is based on the fact that you can change your fate. In response, I said that you can't change fate, or it wouldn't be fate. I don't know why you people have such a hard time with my language even after I clarify it for you.

I haven't undermined anyone's place in the world, nor could I. I am just expressing my opinion. If he wants to say ignorant things like everyone is really bisexual, then I will give him my honest feedback.

 

[murphythecat]

to be fair, I dont think EVERYONE is bisexual. It was said a bit fast. Im not sure about what I think about that.
surveys shows however that most people are not fully straight or fully gay and that we osscilliate between the 2 poles. those who are STRICTLY straight are as rare as those who are strictly gay.

I thought it was obvious from your post that you did understood what I had said though, not sure why willow didnt.

I can read what he wrote, and I understood from the begining that he does not believe in fate.

However, he claims this is based on the fact that you can change your fate. In response, I said that you can't change fate, or it wouldn't be fate. I don't know why you people have such a hard time with my language even after I clarify it for you.

I haven't undermined anyone's place in the world, nor could I. I am just expressing my opinion. If he wants to say ignorant things like everyone is really bisexual, then I will give him my honest feedback.

 

[ForEverAfter]

I don't know why you people have such a hard time with my language even after I clarify it for you.

There are two reasons: they are fated to not hear you; and/or your language is unclear, sometimes, and you need to alter the way you communicate (which applies, I don't know)... And maybe you would be one of those guys stuck on a desert island for the rest of their life with another guy, who remains steadfastly heterosexual and never even considers having a bit of a dick-sucking session: in which case, I feel sorry for you... I don't think you are one of those people. You'd probably have a dick in your mouth before the end of the first year, assuming there were no signs of an impending rescue. And that's a compliment, by the way. What I'm saying is I know you're smart enough to suck a dick to save your (sex) life. (Despite how much you insist that you're not.)

 

[methamaniac]

If a vegan feeds their meat eating pet meat, are they bad vegan? If they don't, are they a bad pet owner?

 

[ForEverAfter]

Yes they're bad vegans and downright bad people too.
When I suspect my neighbors are feeding animals to their animals, I call the police.
Animals eating animals? That's cannibalism.

If they don't, are they a bad pet owner?

If they starve their animals they are worse than the people who feed animals to their animals.
But, either way, it is disgusting.

...

Wait, hold on a second.
If both actions are wrong: what do we do?
That is, indeed, a dilemma worthy of serious consideration.
Let's run around in circles, for a while longer. (Since, apparently, there's nothing better to do.)

 

[methamaniac]

Wait, hold on a second.
If both actions are wrong: what do we do?
That is, indeed, a dilemma worthy of serious consideration.
Let's run around in circles, for a while longer. (Since, apparently, there's nothing better to do.)

lulz....

But for real, cats can go blind and die on a vegetarian diet. Poor kitties.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Yeah, my cats are blind.

 

[turkalurk]

I don't need sex that bad bro. I'd rather jerk off for the rest of my life than to suck a dick. You are just being stupid. Not everyone values superficial gratification enough to compromise their integrity.

 

[ebola?]

Hahahah...your response to what was a decidedly fanciful hypothetical scenario is. . .telling.

ebola

 

[turkalurk]

Hahahah...your response to what was a decidedly fanciful hypothetical scenario is. . .telling.

ebola

Everything you have ever written to or about me, tells me that your opinion is of little value to me.

 

[swilow]

^Perhaps it should be of value to you. Perhaps you do have something to learn despite your assurances otherwise...

 

[ForEverAfter]

I'd rather jerk off for the rest of my life than to suck a dick.

Masturbation is borderline homosexual, anyway: it's pretty much the same as giving someone else a hand-job.
Since there's no pornographic material on my hypothetical island, the only way to be aroused heterosexually is to imagine.
So, you're going to sit there - on the other side of the island - and close your eyes and jerk off?
If so, why not just close your eyes and do a mutual masturbation session?
Either way, there's a dick in your hand... and you're pleasuring a man.
And, what if he hides in the trees and watches you (anyway)? Would that bother you?
Do you have feel like you have to hide? Or, would you jerk off in front of him?

Here's another hypothetical:
What if "he's" a pre-op transsexual, with a beautiful feminine body and face.
Assuming he keeps his pants on, during the act, would you let him blow you?
You could just imagine he was female, in the same way you imagine (whatever it is that you do imagine) in the absence of pornography... I mean, what's the difference?

 

[swilow]

I'd rather jerk off for the rest of my life than to suck a dick.

Okay, but what if you got your dick sucked back? I cannot believe you would forgo such glory simply because of a preconception. Or if you did, I would be left feeling really sorry for you...

...and the thread just got too off-topic. :D

But, this ties in to the analogy some here have tried to draw; that of how a vegan would respond if the only thing available for sustenance was meat- on a desert island, this time witthout the cock, but with only a family of cows or death, most would choose to break up the happy family. If survival was dependant on it, I'd not believe the person who claims they would stick to their diet and therefore embrace death.

Is the need for sexual release a matter of survival?

Here's another hypothetical:
What if "he's" a pre-op transsexual, with a beautiful feminine body and face.
Assuming he keeps his pants on, during the act, would you let him blow you?
You could just imagine he was female, in the same way you imagine (whatever it is that you do imagine) in the absence of pornography... I mean, what's the difference?

I could guess that reality is the difference. It does seem arbitrary when you put it like that. But I'm sure that there are people that have no same-sex attraction, though IME I've hardly met any. Again IME it seems that more people have some same-sex attraction. There is a continuum; it seems rarely binary. Of course, as someone who has identified as bisexual (though I no longer really do...), its likely that I associate with like-minded people so my sample is automatically biased. In generations older then my own (I am 32) I see a lot more rigidity against the idea of sexual-continuum; I guess its confronting to grow up in a society of pure dualistic sexuality to suddenly acknowledge shades of grey. I've found that as I've aged my ability to be sexually attracted to men has declined, and I find myself more oriented to females, which disappoints me becuase I fucking loved having the desire and wherewithal to play around. I've noticed that the things that are really arousing to me are more 'simple' as I've aged, in that the idea and act of coming inside a woman, like really really deep, is possibly the most appealing thing (shocking I know ) (; It's like doing so is the realisation of all fantasies, put plain and simple, and anything else is almost like masturbation. Anyway, I still like the idea of sucking dick but haven't done so for about 4-5 years; and TBH I'm not sure I can see myself going back at anytime soon. Perhaps after I've had kids I will turn-on again. Anyway, that ends my blog entry...

Back to the desert island thing. Are examples of extreme and unnatural circumstances, and how one would behave therein, really good ways to demonstrate a natural aspect of human sexuality? Are we committing reductio ad absurdum here? Maybe you could ask yourself what other things you could supplant for desert island and other man, such as desert island and gorilla or desert island and child. The analogy makes the assumption that there is something uncontrollable in human sexuality (or male sexuality, at least) which I am personally cautious of accepting.

 

[methamaniac]

Yeah, my cats are blind.

U need to get them a seeing eye dog. (guide dog) ?
There's a man in China that you need to get in touch with.

I'd rather jerk off for the rest of my life than to suck a dick.

Okay, but what if you got your dick sucked back?

I'll tell you guys what my dad used to tell me and my brother when we spoke out of turn......

U guys need to keep your cock sucking ideas to yourself.☺

 

[ForEverAfter]

Nice post, willow. I will respond properly later.
In the meantime:

Re: reductio ad absurdum...

Whether or not people - who insist that they wouldn't, under any circumstance, do something - would actually do it, given the right circumstances, is clearly relevant. The example isn't so extreme, in the sense that I've given a real world reference. I might as well have said "would you have sex with a man if you were serving multiple life sentences without the possibility of parole", rather than the desert island thing. The logic is the same. There are real world examples (plural) of situations in which heterosexual people - who were, previously, homophobic - engage in homosexual sex. Sexuality (or, the flexibility of sexuality, if you prefer), to some extent, at least, appears to be defined by circumstance.

I think people should be more hesitant to suggest "reductio ad absurdum".
I don't see why the rules should be different for satire / conversation.
South Park, for example, often uses it to good effect.
So, why can't I?

Desert island scenarios are fun and, while I accept that this is a philosophy forum, it's populated largely by laymen.

but what if you got your dick sucked back? I cannot believe you would forgo such glory simply because of a preconception. Or if you did, I would be left feeling really sorry for you...

Me, too... But, I think turk is better than that.
Although he insists that he wouldn't, we all know he would.

 

[turkalurk]

Why depend on someone else for something I have no problem taking care of myself. I don't have casual sexual relations; I got to feel it for someone. Its an intimate act that just feels empty without love. That being said, if I were tricked into falling for a post op tranny I wouldn't beat myself up about it. I could imagine it'd probably ruin it for me though. Weird group, I guess its the drugs. Sometimes you can open your mind and slip too far away. i have noticed most people who do ecstacy are bisexual. However, here in america I have only met a handful of openly bisexual men.

 

[swilow]

Weird group, I guess its the drugs. Sometimes you can open your mind and slip too far away

Nice generalisation. Its very suggestive that you think bisexuality is evidence for that.

I'll tell you guys what my dad used to tell me and my brother when we spoke out of turn......

U guys need to keep your cock sucking ideas to yourself.☺

Ha, good laugh :D:D

 

[ebola?]

U guys need to keep your cock sucking ideas to yourself.☺

But "cock sucking ideas" put into practice mainly benefit others, don't they? Shouldn't we thus share our cock-sucking ideas?

Weird group, I guess its the drugs. Sometimes you can open your mind and slip too far away. i have noticed most people who do ecstacy are bisexual. However, here in america I have only met a handful of openly bisexual men.

I don't really see the connection between the two: what does being sexually open (or in many cases, just realistic and reasonable) have to do with the pitfalls of operating with too open of a mind? Also, statistically, bisexuality is not remotely rare. At least according to Kinsey, the population prevalence of "homosexual activity" is roughly 25 percent, while gays and lesbians account for under ten percent of the population, suggesting bisexual desire prevalent (but saying little about bisexual identity). Why you're not interacting with them, I don't know (I live in the wider San Francisco area, so my experience has been different, to say the least ). However, these statistics are notoriously hard to measure reliably and validly, hence the continued relevance of Kinsey's relatively ancient data.

ebola

 

[turkalurk]

The Washington Post

The Volokh Conspiracy
What percentage of the U.S. population is gay, lesbian or bisexual?
Share on Facebook Share on Twitter More Options
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By Eugene Volokh July 15, 2014
A survey released Tuesday by the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports:

Based on the 2013 NHIS data [collected in 2013 from 34,557 adults aged 18 and over], 96.6% of adults identified as straight, 1.6% identified as gay or lesbian, and 0.7% identified as bisexual. The remaining 1.1% of adults identified as “something else[]” [0.2%,] stated “I don’t know the answer[]” [0.4%] or refused to provide an answer [0.6%].

More specifically, 1.8 percent of men self-identify as gay and 0.4 percent as bisexual, and 1.5 percent of women self-identify as lesbian and 0.9 percent as bisexual.

The results are generally in the same ballpark as past estimates — and far below the long-debunked 10 percent estimate. But past data that I’ve seen had suggested that there were about twice as many gay or bisexual men as lesbian or bisexual women; this data suggests that there is no such gender gap.

 

[murphythecat]

and now, look at the correlation between gay porn and those surveys.
its interesting to see that in the most anti-gay states they are the one watching the most gay porn.

I wouldnt trust a survey about such matter.

The Washington Post

The Volokh Conspiracy
What percentage of the U.S. population is gay, lesbian or bisexual?
Share on Facebook Share on Twitter More Options
Resize Text Print Article Comments 106
By Eugene Volokh July 15, 2014
A survey released Tuesday by the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports:

Based on the 2013 NHIS data [collected in 2013 from 34,557 adults aged 18 and over], 96.6% of adults identified as straight, 1.6% identified as gay or lesbian, and 0.7% identified as bisexual. The remaining 1.1% of adults identified as “something else[]” [0.2%,] stated “I don’t know the answer[]” [0.4%] or refused to provide an answer [0.6%].

More specifically, 1.8 percent of men self-identify as gay and 0.4 percent as bisexual, and 1.5 percent of women self-identify as lesbian and 0.9 percent as bisexual.

The results are generally in the same ballpark as past estimates — and far below the long-debunked 10 percent estimate. But past data that I’ve seen had suggested that there were about twice as many gay or bisexual men as lesbian or bisexual women; this data suggests that there is no such gender gap.