Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

[turkalurk]

and now, look at the correlation between gay porn and those surveys.
its interesting to see that in the most anti-gay states they are the one watching the most gay porn.

I wouldnt trust a survey about such matter.

So, I should just take this groups word for that most people are bisexual?

 

[Jabberwocky]

We got some interesting technologies on horizon that could soften many of the reasons people choose a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. In vitro meat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat. Would you consider meat grown in a petri dish vegetarian? Assuming it tasted good and was produced from quality/ethical ingredients, would you now consider eating meat? I think a well balanced vegetarian/vegan diet is a healthy life choice. I tried a vegetarian diet for a year and lost weight and felt increased vitality a few months into it. I also felt alienated by the difficulty of maintaining my diet, and the smell of meat of the grill made me feel like I was missing out. Now I eat a primarily vegetarian diet with allowances for meat and fish and am happy with compromise. So anyways, food for thought or thought for food.

 

[murphythecat]

I perfer to look at the statistic that show to what people really masturbate rather then what people say.

the numbers dont lie imo. there clearly more then 2% of the population that look to gay porn.

So, I should just take this groups word for that most people are bisexual?

 

[turkalurk]

I perfer to look at the statistic that show to what people really masturbate rather then what people say.

the numbers dont lie imo. there clearly more then 2% of the population that look to gay porn.

ridiculous. what were numbers? where is your source? how were these numbers that don't lie analyzed?

 

[murphythecat]

ridiculous. what were numbers? where is your source? how were these numbers that don't lie analyzed?

I dont entirely trust surveys about this very personal matter.
kinsey scale seem to show that there's a lot of bisexual. is that true or not, I dont know.

numbers are much less important then I thought. it seems around 5% of porn users watch gay porn.
funny facts, the states where gay marriage are forbidden is the place where there's the biggest gay porn consumers.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=gay+...of+gay+pornography+watched+in+the+usa&start=0

 

[ForEverAfter]

The more you deny this turk, the stranger it looks.
What's your motivation?

 

[swilow]

I didn't think that people found same-sex attraction to be that weird anymore.

 

[turkalurk]

I never said it was weird. I have gay friends and family members and I love them just the same. I was only expressing my personal opinion about being a straight person that would find it gross
for himself to participate in sexual relations with another man. Since it was claimed that we all are bisexual, I felt the need to counter that assertion by expressing my own sexual preferences. I don't care what 2 consenting adults want to do with their sexuality. I'd prefer not to watch them make out, but I could say the same about any unattractive couple. I simply find it unappealing to observe.

 

[tantric]

I understand what you said here: What Buddhism describes is universal.
I agree its universal

Buddhism is not required. It is an avenue. You shouldn't focus too much on the avenue, once you've grown accustomed to navigating it

youve grown accustomed to what exactly?

No one remembered exactly when the settlers had begun offering sacrifices. Some people claimed the rite had been continued from the time the last Owlbrit died, though no mention of the ritual appeared in Settlement One logs of years one or two. The first mention of it was in the logs of year three. What was certain was that sacrifice had been recommended by the Owlbrit themselves.

Every word the Owlbrit had spoken from the moment the first settlers met them had been preserved in digifax on the information stages, and among the few intelligible exchanges with the last Owlbrit was the reference to sacrifice.

"Necessary?" the linguist had asked, relying heavily upon his Alsense translation stage to convey the meaning of the word. The question had been directed to the last surviving Owlbrit in its tiny round house near the temple.

"Not necessary," the Old One had scraped with his horn-tipped tentacles in a husky whisper. "What is necessary? Is life necessary? Necessary to what? No, sacrifice is not necessary, it is only recommended. It is a way, a convenience, a kindness."

-Sheri Tepper, Raising the Stones

of course buddhism is universal - buddhism is the path to enlightenment. if we discover some new, better path, then we just call that 'buddhism' too. as an american buddhist, i don't focus on the teachings of the ancients, nor do i try to ape asian disciplines. it is my job to create american buddhism, something new and unique. though i understand the decay of the dharma, there is a contrary process whereby it is somewhat renewed as it encounters new situations. i'm hoping for scientific buddhism, but for me, personally - i'm a mf jedi. 1,000 yrs from now, in the Intro to American Buddhism class, what film will they show on the first day? right.

 

[swilow]

in the Intro to American Buddhism class, what film will they show on the first day? right.

Dune?

I never said it was weird.

I was responding to Foreverafter. I read a subtext in his post which I thought was maybe not valid these days, that denial of homosexual attraction can indicate latent homosexuality or something otherwise 'to hide'. I'm not sure if that is what he meant though.

In truth, quite a lot of people still find same-sex relations (especially between men) to be "unappealing" as you say. My best friend was "disappointed" when I told him of my gay experiences but was unable to explain why (and fortunately got over it). For example, why would you not wish to see two men making out? How does it effect you?

 

[ForEverAfter]

Whether or not it's an indication of repressed homosexual tendencies, it's strange to insist repeatedly (for no reason) that you're absolutely straight and that you'd never compromise that even if it means that you won't have sex for the rest of your life. Nobody else is repeating that they're straight over and over again. So, I'm left to speculate as to why that is. What is his motivation to concretely establish his sexuality in the context of a discussion about sexuality as a spectrum? There's a lot of guys who - at some point in their lives - might insist that they'd rather die than have a same-sex encounter. And then, through unexpected circumstances, they have a change of perspective. Whether or not it is in jail, or it stems from a 3-way. Turk can insist all he likes, but he doesn't know how he'd react in all possible circumstances. To insist otherwise indicates a serious hatred and/or fear of homosexual tendencies (whether they are his, or someone else's)... But, it also suggests that there's something wrong with homosexuality (from his perspective); which he confirmed by calling same-sex encounters as gross and relating it to drug abuse.

As for "he doth protest too much" being applied to homophobia to indicate latent homosexual tendencies...
I'm not sure why you don't think it's valid. It is not proof. But, it can be an indication.
There has to be some reason that people object to certain sexual orientations.

why would you not wish to see two men making out? How does it effect you?

Indeed.

 

[turkalurk]

Dune?



I was responding to Foreverafter. I read a subtext in his post which I thought was maybe not valid these days, that denial of homosexual attraction can indicate latent homosexuality or something otherwise 'to hide'. I'm not sure if that is what he meant though.

In truth, quite a lot of people still find same-sex relations (especially between men) to be "unappealing" as you say. My best friend was "disappointed" when I told him of my gay experiences but was unable to explain why (and fortunately got over it). For example, why would you not wish to see two men making out? How does it effect you?

It affects me the same as it would two really big ugly fat people making out. Its just not something I want to see. Its like TMI. I feel too much public affection is inappropriate no matter who it is. I also don't like talking to people on the phone while they take shit. It just seems gross to me.

 

[tantric]

Dune?

are you aware that DXM is the water of life? it's a poison your body metabolizes into a psychedelic that lets you see through time. in any case, 1.2% of the population of New Zealand didn't indicate their religions as 'Kwisatz Haderach' - they chose 'Jedi'. personally, i'm one the fence - i do have this t-shirt:

but i also practice swatting hovering carpenter bees out of the air with a broom handle...though i'm not up to doing it blindfolded. OTOH, i can snatch them out of the air with my bare hand, which is more advanced, as you'll get stung if you mistakenly grab a female instead of a male, and when you do, you must release her without harm, just like you do the others. and bow to them, of course. that's jedi training. besides, as mr. miyagi said "man who can catch fly with chopstick accomplish anything".

 

[swilow]

As for "he doth protest too much" being applied to homophobia to indicate latent homosexual tendencies...
I'm not sure why you don't think it's valid. It is not proof. But, it can be an indication.
There has to be some reason that people object to certain sexual orientations.

I think it is valid, but it almost feels like a cliche. And I had a naive idea that maybe people don't feel the need to suppress those sort of feelings these days.

I suppose I am being simplistic and thinking that because I find the idea positively normal, other people should too. I didn't think people still bothered finding this sort of shit disgusting. Conservatism is still pretty powerful.

 

[swilow]

I've just killed a whole bunch of pretty silly posts.

Can we move on?

Its fine to go off-topic a bit in this thread- I think the discussion has become interesting up until the last few pages. But not that off-topic.

 

[ForEverAfter]

maybe people don't feel the need to suppress those sort of feelings these days... I suppose I am being simplistic and thinking that because I find the idea positively normal, other people should too.

You said your best friend was disappointed, but he got over it... Some people don't though. I assume you kept your same-sex experiences from your friend because you were afraid of how he might react? I don't think it's realistic to say that people don't have good reasons - sometimes - to feel like they need to hide their sexuality. In some parts of the world, it's still illegal to be gay.

I've just killed a whole bunch of pretty silly posts.

Can we move on?

Its fine to go off-topic a bit in this thread- I think the discussion has become interesting up until the last few pages. But not that off-topic.

Agreed. Let's move on.

 

[tantric]

moving on, or back

you can't really classify buddhism as a religion or philosophy until you understand the deep meaning of 'dharma':

Dharma has the Sanskrit root dhri, which means "that which upholds" or "that without which nothing can stand" or "that which maintains the stability and harmony of the universe." Dharma encompasses the natural, innate behavior of things, duty, law, ethics, virtue, etc. Every entity in the cosmos has its particular dharma -- from the electron, which has the dharma to move in a certain manner, to the clouds, galaxies, plants, insects, and of course, man. Man's understanding of the dharma of inanimate things is what we now call physics.

atheists have a fit if you say atheism is their religion, because they define religions as 'believing in woo'. but without question, everyone has a dharma - its the guiding principles of your life, how you view the world, your epistemology, cosmology, theology, eschatology, teleology, ethics, etc. buddhism is not just a philosophy or a religion, the distinction is false, it's dharma. in some cultures the powers that be highjacked it during the process of solidifying a multi-ethnic nation and turned it into state religion - that happens. it's still buddhism and part of the path is knowing better than to get up in the air about labels.

 

[swilow]

^Perhaps wrong thread? I'm getting them all mixed up too...

You said your best friend was disappointed, but he got over it... Some people don't though. I assume you kept your same-sex experiences from your friend because you were afraid of how he might react? I don't think it's realistic to say that people don't have good reasons - sometimes - to feel like they need to hide their sexuality. In some parts of the world, it's still illegal to be gay.

Good points actually. Its easy to forget that tbh.

I never really concealed my experiences from my friend. They happened mainly before I met him, but I certainly didn't tell him about them straight away. I tend not to discuss my sex life all that much anyway, so it took a while to come up. He didn't express disappointment to me straight away though, he seemed to accept it. We were on methylone together one night and he told me that my revelation surprised him and made him see me differently, but that his disappointment was more in himself for reacting that way. It was as awkward as any deep, confusing empathogen-chat could be which was probably a good thing

 

[tantric]

okay, so you've had samesex but you didn't tell your friend because then he would want to sleep with you and expect it? that kind of expectation only happens when a guy just comes out, or before. he can't really conceptualize much but the sex, and hasn't actually learned how to be attracted to men or what he likes. it happens with us too - a kid comes and thinks because you're gay and confident that he gets to have you. it's also part of being expected to be reward for coming out. but you friend has no right to expect that, at all...but the shit's your fault for hiding yourself from him. look, when someone asks if you're gay or bi, say what christopher maloni said in Oz, "i do what i have to".

hell, there's a guy at my zen temple now i'm pretty sure has the hots for me. it's wrong of me, but i'm a trickster and its how i roll, so i ain't gone tell him shit about being gay. "i do what i gotta", the emotionally wounded excon.....just so he can have the experience of seducing a straight guy. and i'll make it hot, too, build it up for months. after, i'll tell him, and i'm pretty sure he'll hate me, but i intend it as a gift and if he can't deal with that, there's no possible way he could be in a relationship with me. now, is *that* evil?

 

[swilow]

^Perhaps you should read what I actually wrote?