ULDN - The magic weapon to reduce and keep tolerance to Opioids low

[BadassMoFo]

I’ve found this to be VERY effective so please read on if you would like the details and apologize for the long post but felt all the details would be necessary for those most interested.

I'm a chronic pain patient and fortunately I have one of the greatest most open minded doctors I've ever had. He's fully aware of my past use of opioids and even with this past, he's more than willing to help manage the multiple pain issues because he knows I have significant pain issue and I have demonstrated for many years now that I can be prescribed opioids without abusing them. I have been discussing my tolerance issues for many months and tried many things but basically I'm unable to take anything more than once a day without a tolerance increase.

I copied and presented all of the articles noted in the OP's post to this doctor and found an additional study that provides even more information. https://www.jpain.org/article/S1526-5900(05)00412-8/fulltext

After he did his own research he was more than willing to see if this would work for me. I believe the first one referencing the new combination drug of oxycodone and Naltrexone Oxytrex that is in it's final stages of approval was the real convincing evidence.He wrote me a script for some compounded 1.5mg Naltexone or 1500mcg which I've dissolved in on 500ml of water for a mixture of 3mcg per ml.

I have been on a seven day break to reduce my tolerance and before this I was taking 60mg of Oxycodone or the equivalent dose of 12mg of Levorphanol which was no longer effective and I usually have to increase the dose at that point by 50%. These doses may seem high but I have had pharmacogenomic testing performed that shows that genetically I have a naturally high tolerance and am an ultra processor.

I have been taking Kratom to help with any negative effects and I always use the lowest dose I can which is less than 3 grams. I say this because I use the capsules which weigh .6g when full but are usually not full and I only consume 5 capsules. I normally taper off of this within two weeks without issue. I would also like to point out here that Kratom, at the minimal dose I take, does not affect my tolerance to other opioids and it still decreases with its use as long as the dose is only enough to keep you feeling normal and you’re tapering off of it. This may differ if you take larger doses to feel more effect and can not comment because I have never done this because I’ve never had any effect even at significantly higher doses but this may be due to my natural tolerance to opioids in general.

Today I took 1.5ml of the solution which should be 4.5mcg Naltexone. I was VERY anxious about doing this because I have been quickly detoxed on Naltrexone in the past and experienced severe PAWS during that time. I am glad to report that I felt no effect from taking the Naltrexone.

30 minutes after taking the Naltrexone I took 10mg of Levorphanol which is lower than what I normally take and I’m able to take this after a 30 day break where my tolerance should be close to my natural level which again is higher than normal people. There is no doubt that the effects are better than I would expect.

I’m planning to follow this up in the next few days with only taking the ULDN and refraining from taking anything other than Kratom again beginning with the same amount and increasing it as much as I can tolerate in an effort to get my tolerance to its lowest natural level and will likely follow this up with a full report in a week.

 

[BadassMoFo]

Still at it... Keeping it to 5-10 ug every morning works reliably well. For 8 days in a row now. Think i was doing a little too much in my earlier posts

Thanks for you reports and keep at it as the OP and the studies show that there is an optimal dose for everyone. You may also want to try breaking up the dose throughout the day because I'm a research freak on stuff like this and did a lot on the Oxytrex and unlike this method the Naltrexone is dosed together with the oxy where in most studies the dose was given qid(4x day) with only 1-2 mcg with each dose but this may be different when it comes to Methadone since it has longer effects and is usually dosed one per day.

 

[goodjunkie]

Right. splitting the nltx might be a good idea to cover the long duration of methadone. Hmm. And oxytrex bid did 39% better than qid which is still better than placebo. So im gonna go even lower on the nltx. Thanks for the link bro orherwise i could never bring myself to find and read stuff like this.

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

I’m not exactly sure what the goal is here but is this actually safe you’re keeping your tolerance low but for what reason?

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

It’s great to keep your tolerance low as long as you have a supply of prescription medication’s, but I hope you’re not also using street drugs because there’s no way of keeping track of your tolerance and with a diminished tolerance you’re risking overdose

 

[BadassMoFo]

I’m not exactly sure what the goal is here but is this actually safe you’re keeping your tolerance low but for what reason?

I'm a chronic pain patient, don't abuse my meds, never really used street drugs and definitely won't anymore because of the risk that their likely adulterated. My doctor will prescribe whatever I want but don't want to return to higher doses because I know what coming off them is like and my goal is to be able to take the same dose everyday without increasing it.

If you're looking to use this method and plan to continue to abuse drugs and take ever increasing doses then I would agree that even with this method you will likely end up in the same place and the OP stated this as well.

 

[philosopium]

@Hexenstahl Just wondering if you can provide an update. Dose naltrexone still work for you? Have you considered using salvia as well or instead? Salvia binds to kappa-opioid like naltraxone, which may induce the upregulation of mu-opioid receptors.​

Salvia did wonders for me once. Longest time I had been clean too, it annhilated my cravings too.. But somehow this was the least interesting that I got out of it. Boy, what was a I unprepared, but to be honest: nothing can prepare you for that..

 

[TRDexteme1]

Hi all,

I have magically found this post and am so glad I have. I have a unique situation, and have nearly given up on my life due to severely Treatment Resistant Major Depressive disorder, CPTSD and the most oppressive, vile Social Anxiety I’ve had my entire life. I’ve failed 16+ medications, TMS & Ketamine therapy. Various types of talk therapy have also failed, various illicit substances haven’t touched it.

The ONLY relief has been opiates / opioids. Alternating between Oxycodone & Poppy seed tea. This has been highly effective for me, but of course at this minute, I’m declining again due to tolerance.

I have been taking Ultra Low Dose naltrexone for around three months now since resuming my opioid use after being sober for over a year and seeing 0 benefits in my mental health. Originally I was taking 10mcg a night, before bed, and taking my my poppy seed tea the following night, with not too great results in tolerance reduction. I later increased this to 80mcg of naltrexone, mixed in to 500ml of water, and using a 1ml syringe measuring it that way, it seemed to have slowed to progression of my tolerance dramatically, but not fully. Two months in my tolerance had risen too much, and out of a freak accident, as I carried a 25mg naltrexone tablet around in my Dexamfetamine adhd medication bottle just in case I ever felt I’d taken too much poppy seed tea as the alkaloid content varies from batch to batch.

I accidentally one night took the entire 25mg naltrexone tablet, instead of two of my usual Dexedrine tablets. Now, when I say it was hell on earth, it was complete, and utter, torture for around 13 hours, as I took it WHILST on poppy seed tea, the adrenaline surge was something out of this world and I had to drive half an hour home in full blown precipitated withdrawal. I nearly lost control of my bladder and bowel on the drive home, and the anxiety and paranoia was something out of this world. I genuinely thought I was dying.

Two days following on non stop crying, appreciating those in my life and guilt, but the days that followed that were mind blowing. I resumed opiates at a low dosage on my third night after the naltrexone 25mg tablet, and 5–10mg of oxycodone felt like I had taken them for the very first time again. My depression had nearly ceased, my anxiety was non existent for the first time in my entire life, I felt for five days after like a new person. The naltrexone had completely reset my opioid receptors to near brand new.

Unfortunately now 7 days on, it’s faded and my tolerance to oxycodone is back up to 80mg a day, due to not taking my usual 100mcg naltrexone dose at night. I took it last night and tonight noticed my first 40mg oxycodone dosage nearly far, far too strong. I almost had to manually breath, whereas last night I felt nearly nothing. HUGE variation in the effects just from overnight and taking 100mcg of naltrexone and then taking my opioid dose over 14-16 hours later.

I am planning to induce the same hell next week by taking another 25mg naltrexone dosage, this time with clonidine & benzodiazepines at my disposal, and going right back on ultra low dosage naltrexone on the third night when I take my opiates again. This whole journey has been fascinating and I’d really love to hear if anybody has had a similar experience to mine, and if they use opiates for self treating severe mental health issues.

 

[fairnymph]

I have had fantastic long term results with ULDN paired with black seed oil. I don't try to get high though, i just manage pain.

What dose of naltrexone? Glad to see someone else here pimping the benefits of black seed oil.

 

[pnillyg]

So what would be an ideal dosage for ULDN and BSO for keeping tolorence from kratom / 7oh minimal. Amount and dosing schedule. Does it have reverse. Tolerance effect or just stop the increase?

 

[itgiawa]

@Hexenstahl So naltraxone seems to work really well for keeping opioid receptors pristine, but eventually our dopamine receptors will wear down. A prefect protocol would also up regulate them? Unfortunately there seems to be less research on dopamine receptor up regulation. I'm supplementing with Uridine and Chloine to help support dopamine, but its not the same. I have metroclopromide (a dopamine agonist) but Im scared to take it since I don't wana end up like Michael J. Fox. I wonder if you've given much thought to dopamine sensitivity?

EDIT. Fuck it. im going to do 2 weeks no opoids with 5 days 5 mg metroclopromide and 8 or 9 days of uldn. then Ill dose up and see how fun it is​

 

[itgiawa]

So what would be an ideal dosage for ULDN and BSO for keeping tolorence from kratom / 7oh minimal. Amount and dosing schedule. Does it have reverse. Tolerance effect or just stop the increase?

im not sure if the body develops a tolerance to ULDN, probably. Youll have to experiment with different doses no one can tell you the ideal schedule, but I expect youll need to take breaks where you graduate from ULDN to LDN and no opioids. The LDN will reset your opioid system fast but you have to be fully off of opoids and kratom before taking LDN or you will experence unimaginable hell. If you let yourself get addicted then youll need jump off and make sure you have no accute withdrawl symptoms before taking LDN. DO NOT fuck with LDN unless you are absolutly sure youre no longer dependednt on kratom and opioids.

 

[itgiawa]

Hi all,

I have magically found this post and am so glad I have. I have a unique situation, and have nearly given up on my life due to severely Treatment Resistant Major Depressive disorder, CPTSD and the most oppressive, vile Social Anxiety I’ve had my entire life. I’ve failed 16+ medications, TMS & Ketamine therapy. Various types of talk therapy have also failed, various illicit substances haven’t touched it.

The ONLY relief has been opiates / opioids. Alternating between Oxycodone & Poppy seed tea. This has been highly effective for me, but of course at this minute, I’m declining again due to tolerance.

I have been taking Ultra Low Dose naltrexone for around three months now since resuming my opioid use after being sober for over a year and seeing 0 benefits in my mental health. Originally I was taking 10mcg a night, before bed, and taking my my poppy seed tea the following night, with not too great results in tolerance reduction. I later increased this to 80mcg of naltrexone, mixed in to 500ml of water, and using a 1ml syringe measuring it that way, it seemed to have slowed to progression of my tolerance dramatically, but not fully. Two months in my tolerance had risen too much, and out of a freak accident, as I carried a 25mg naltrexone tablet around in my Dexamfetamine adhd medication bottle just in case I ever felt I’d taken too much poppy seed tea as the alkaloid content varies from batch to batch.

I accidentally one night took the entire 25mg naltrexone tablet, instead of two of my usual Dexedrine tablets. Now, when I say it was hell on earth, it was complete, and utter, torture for around 13 hours, as I took it WHILST on poppy seed tea, the adrenaline surge was something out of this world and I had to drive half an hour home in full blown precipitated withdrawal. I nearly lost control of my bladder and bowel on the drive home, and the anxiety and paranoia was something out of this world. I genuinely thought I was dying.

Two days following on non stop crying, appreciating those in my life and guilt, but the days that followed that were mind blowing. I resumed opiates at a low dosage on my third night after the naltrexone 25mg tablet, and 5–10mg of oxycodone felt like I had taken them for the very first time again. My depression had nearly ceased, my anxiety was non existent for the first time in my entire life, I felt for five days after like a new person. The naltrexone had completely reset my opioid receptors to near brand new.

Unfortunately now 7 days on, it’s faded and my tolerance to oxycodone is back up to 80mg a day, due to not taking my usual 100mcg naltrexone dose at night. I took it last night and tonight noticed my first 40mg oxycodone dosage nearly far, far too strong. I almost had to manually breath, whereas last night I felt nearly nothing. HUGE variation in the effects just from overnight and taking 100mcg of naltrexone and then taking my opioid dose over 14-16 hours later.

I am planning to induce the same hell next week by taking another 25mg naltrexone dosage, this time with clonidine & benzodiazepines at my disposal, and going right back on ultra low dosage naltrexone on the third night when I take my opiates again. This whole journey has been fascinating and I’d really love to hear if anybody has had a similar experience to mine, and if they use opiates for self treating severe mental health issues.

danm man that doesnt seem sustainable. If you can get fully off the opiates you can do what the OP did and cycle 2 days off 1 day on taking 50 or 25 mg naltraxone every 3 days. Then you wouldnt have to suffer withdrawals again

 

[Hexenstahl]

@Hexenstahl So naltraxone seems to work really well for keeping opioid receptors pristine, but eventually our dopamine receptors will wear down. A prefect protocol would also up regulate them? Unfortunately there seems to be less research on dopamine receptor up regulation. I'm supplementing with Uridine and Chloine to help support dopamine, but its not the same. I have metroclopromide (a dopamine agonist) but Im scared to take it since I don't wana end up like Michael J. Fox. I wonder if you've given much thought to dopamine sensitivity?​

​

EDIT. Fuck it. im going to do 2 weeks no opoids with 5 days 5 mg metroclopromide and 8 or 9 days of uldn. then Ill dose up and see how fun it is​

Sorry for the extremely late reply, but here is my answer: I haven't done research on dopamine receptors, but according to my experience it really doesn't matter when it comes to ULDN. I'm able to maintain my dose and achieve a fairly good euphoric response without meddling with my dopamine system. Opioids release primarily endorphins (endogenous morphinans), not dopamine, so I think the latter is irrelevant in terms of opioid euphoria. Dopamine modulates the reinforcing behaviour of opioid addiction more than it affects the opioid high itself.

Also @TRDexteme1 why the HELL do you put yourself through the absolute torture of precipitated wd to reset your opioid receptors when you can do it the way I did it for a while: get off of opioids, wait until you feel no physical wds anymore, then take a full 50mg Naltrexone pill, wait SEVEN days and NO LESS, take a newbie dose of your opioid of choice and enjoy.
What you are doing however is traumatic to both your mind and body. You can actually put yourself at risk of dying from dehydration because you're gonna lose more water than you can take in during that time. Pls STOP popping NLTX while physically dependent on opioids. I'm getting PTSD flashbacks just from reading what you did.
I hope nobody who read his post followed suit with his idea. A precipitated wd is not comparable to your usual cold turkey wd. You feel all the symptoms at once at maximum intensity for anywhere between a day (if you're a fast metabolizer) to three days at most. The entire world turns grey before your eyes, you feel anxiety like you never felt before in your life, you puke and shit like the Niagara waterfalls, your body feels like sulfuric acid is flowing through your veins while your muscles are burning and your bones are petrifying at the same time, all the while a blender is shredding your guts. That's just the physical shit. The mental stuff is indescribable. Don't know how in the world that guy even entertains the possibility of going through that for a second time. My experience with it was accidental and fortunately happened in a hospital. Just do ULDN guys and if that doesn't work, taper off your opioid until you're down to zero, take a 50mg pill NLTX, wait seven days and enjoy your opioid honeymoon again for a while.

 

[itgiawa]

Sorry for the extremely late reply, but here is my answer: I haven't done research on dopamine receptors, but according to my experience it really doesn't matter when it comes to ULDN. I'm able to maintain my dose and achieve a fairly good euphoric response without meddling with my dopamine system. Opioids release primarily endorphins (endogenous morphinans), not dopamine, so I think the latter is irrelevant in terms of opioid euphoria. Dopamine modulates the reinforcing behaviour of opioid addiction more than it affects the opioid high itself.

Right. My experiment with my D2 antagonist maybe improved my mood slightly? But Im now a believer in the hedonic hotspot theory: https://www.researchgate.net/public...pots_Generating_sensory_pleasure_in_the_brain. It basically says all pleasure just comes from opioid receptors.
Downregulating your D2 receptors might help you be happy a bit since Reward Prediction Error circuits have d2 receptors on them and they in turn produce endogenous opioids.
Ive experimented with extreme asceticism: no drugs, no tv, no scrolling, no high gi carbs, no porn, etc. After a week It up regulated my RPE circuit and was able to maintain a pretty consistent, but mild "high" from endogenous opioids. It takes incredible discipline to maintain though.
Unfortunately taking opioids sends dopamine backwards and down regulates the RPE. Agamatine and other such NMDA antagonists might mitigate that effect.

 

[pnillyg]

Ok so after 4 days no buprenorphine or opiates should I introduce LDN or ULDN? Could this be something I benefit from or no?

 

[itgiawa]

Ok so after 4 days no buprenorphine or opiates should I introduce LDN or ULDN? Could this be something I benefit from or no?

You should probably always take ULDN 30 min before taking any opioid. ULDN is safe. LND is what you gota be careful about cuz if you take it while still physically dependent on opioids then you experience the hell of precipitated withdraws.
You deff can benefit from LDN or better yet a normal dose of naltraxone. It really is magic. It will reset your opioid tolerance. But you can only take it when youre sure youre not going through acute withdrawals. If youve been on opioids for 5 years then 4 days off aint gonna cut it. You might need weeks. Do you have any withdrawls symptoms? if not and you feel good then start with a test dose of LDN to see if you react ok. Then the next day you can try a slowly upping the dose and work your way up to 25 or 50 mg. Then you gota wait for that to leave your system, 2 to 5 days depending on the dose you take. Then you can take your ULDN, wait 30 min and enjoy your new low tollerance.
Because your tollerance is lower AND youre boosted up on ULDN start a lower dose than noraml of your opoid of choice. You dont want respritory derperssion killing you. Also be sure your not taking any GABA stuff like benzos or gabapentin. I wouldnt combine that shit with your new low tollerance/ULDN enhanced reciptors cuz we really wana avoid an overdose and GABA makes it literally impossible to safely know what dose your taking due to its multiplicative effect on opoids.

 

[pnillyg]

You should probably always take ULDN 30 min before taking any opioid. ULDN is safe. LND is what you gota be careful about cuz if you take it while still physically dependent on opioids then you experience the hell of precipitated withdraws.
You deff can benefit from LDN or better yet a normal dose of naltraxone. It really is magic. It will reset your opioid tolerance. But you can only take it when youre sure youre not going through acute withdrawals. If youve been on opioids for 5 years then 4 days off aint gonna cut it. You might need weeks. Do you have any withdrawls symptoms? if not and you feel good then start with a test dose of LDN to see if you react ok. Then the next day you can try a slowly upping the dose and work your way up to 25 or 50 mg. Then you gota wait for that to leave your system, 2 to 5 days depending on the dose you take. Then you can take your ULDN, wait 30 min and enjoy your new low tollerance.
Because your tollerance is lower AND youre boosted up on ULDN start a lower dose than noraml of your opoid of choice. You dont want respritory derperssion killing you. Also be sure your not taking any GABA stuff like benzos or gabapentin. I wouldnt combine that shit with your new low tollerance/ULDN enhanced reciptors cuz we really wana avoid an overdose and GABA makes it literally impossible to safely know what dose your taking due to its multiplicative effect on opoids.

I take Eszopiclone every night for sleep starting to not cut it which blows I’ve been here before adding gabapentin or hydroxazine always melatonin with it though. Sleep is brutal for me trying to dial it in. I appreciate the words of wisdom. Something I’m curious about doing but scared to start taking it as prescribed because I do have my slip ups…

 

[itgiawa]

I take Eszopiclone every night for sleep starting to not cut it which blows I’ve been here before adding gabapentin or hydroxazine always melatonin with it though. Sleep is brutal for me trying to dial it in. I appreciate the words of wisdom. Something I’m curious about doing but scared to start taking it as prescribed because I do have my slip ups…

You could try an opioid that has less risk of respiratory depression like 7oH or Kratom. Although, Im not sure how to safely buy 7oh. Im gonna post now asking if anyone knows how to avoid 7oh thats laced with bad things. Also Im not an expert on respiratory depression so Id ask more if what you wana do is safe or not

 

[Mycophile]

Here's a few things which can help reduce tolerance build-up / reduce opioid dosage by potentiating their theraputic effects.
All OTC.

• Agmatine - potentiates other drugs, has it's own analgesic effects, neuroprotective
• Theanine - pro-GABA, stops the entire stress response (cortisol, adrenaline)
• linalool, caryophyllene, myrcene, limonene - Terpenes with opioid/adenosine/GABA effects
• Myrrh extract (oil or CO2 extract, in capsules) - analgesic

But I keep hearing people say that Agmatine entirely kills opioid euphoria, specifically Kratom euphoria, and is only good for resetting tolerance. Some will say that you can take it at night after your dose or whatever has worn off, but won't it negatively effect your experience the next day?

I've been taking Kratom extracts (NOT containing 7-OH, or if so, there's none on the bottle so couldn't be much) and plain leaf, and my tolerance is too high. I want to get it as low as possible as quickly as possible cause I'm only on vacation for another 2-3 weeks and I want Kratom to work well again. I mean I really shouldn't have gotten into extracts at all. That's what messed me up.

I do have access to Theanine and Myrrh extract, as well as Magnolia, but I've never used those before. You gave some guidelines that I saved from another thread. I'm out of Agmatine and considering buying more, but I'm not sure if it'll take so long to reset my tolerance that my vacation will be almost over before Kratom works well again. IF I could take it at night and have Kratom work the next day that would be ideal...