took sub this morning, copped H this afternoon . WTF?

Yeah ok , hey dad i got a dope habit . And you think he is gonna say Oh no problem "after we have helped you out for 10 years and your still messin up its ok " LOL He is gonna say hey your own your own now and im gonnna be SOL

So what, your dad would prefer it if you remain a heroin addict, and just lie to him? If your dad has helped you out for 10 years, he isn't going to randomly stop helping you. If you come up to him and say "look, I don't want this to be something that could potentially be a problem for me in the future... I should move away" he might be able to help you without him knowing you have already relapsed.

What you need to do is move, far away, from the north eastern United States, to an area where it would be impossible for you to so easily go and cop heroin.
 
^
i dint think thats possible.

... this thread has been going on a while now, and it seems like you are missing some steps and carrying this, and those that care further on then necessary.

what have you learned that will help you finalize this, or start to stop in a way all concerned are happy with.
 
It really depends on how smart Jakes dad is as addiction only recently started being treated like a disease in society, and some parents can definitely be old school with their thinking.
But if he sees is as a sickness, like most people do now and days, Jake going to his father and saying I'm doing heroin is like Jake going to his father and saying "I have a fatal disease, that will kill me if left untreated", and part of the disease aspect is Jakes own thoughts towards how his dad will react.

Like "maybe my dad will blame me for having this fatal disease, and cut me off for life". In a way it seems like a logical fear, but thats only cause I'm an addict too. If you told a nonaddict that they might be like "you're fucking crazy, you have a fatal disease and actually think people are gonna scorn you for it? worse than the disease itself has already?"

Part of the "disease" component is a social imbalance of how people actually view addiction. If some people believe its a disease, and others don't, then those who have the disease can never be too sure who is there to help them, and who is there to make their lives worse.

But I still think after all the shit Jakes put his parents through, that it would simply be impossible to turn away his addicted mind. Its almost like an addicted gambler walking out of casino to ask their parents outside for help, and the parents say "no, we've helped you too much, go back in the casino and blow the rest of your life away". It just doesn't make logical sense that his dad would actually turn him away.

Jake I won't tell you that you can't get through school cause I know you can. But it still doesn't mean anything. What is the point of even getting an associates degree if you're just gonna use your associates degree for copping more dope and sub?
Or would you rather prefer to graduate THEN drop the motherload on your parents? Are you thinking it might soften the blow?

Seriously, indulge me, I'm curious to see where your logic is at.
 
Hey jake why dont you just go on methadone maintenance? Itll be cheaper then doing heroin its legal and you can still get your fix everyday! Its win win then in 6 months after you graduate and become self sufficent if you still wanna do dope you can put needles in your arm until shit goes south then get back on the methadone and repeat ad nasuem. Otherwise your gonna end up getting arrested and then your parents are gonna be really pissed cause thats a bad way to find out your son relapsed.
 
Wow amazing how many peoplle dont get it ..........................There comes a point when your parents help you for years and years and finally get so fed up that they say "you know what , you are on your own " I am one step away from that happening. I asked my dad if i can use my insurance for rehab and when he found out it cost 500 buks plus 200 a day even with my insurance he said "YOu need to just taper off, get a job , and finish school"
 
It almost sounds like your dad "doesn't get it". But I understand that you prob feel like you're already walking on eggshells with him so it changes what you can and can't say to him.

All I can say is after prison, I was clean for 5 years. (well 1 year before prison) And at that time of my life I was 100% sure if anything happened my parents would be done with me. But I think what I had going in my favor is how well I was able to hide problems from my addiction. I was able to keep a job for 4 years with the last 2 spent addicted to pods. So my parents were happy with me right up untill the point I told them I was hooked again.

The conversation that day started with them saying "why can't you just taper yourself off and stop?" and I said "because I've already tried 3 times and the wds are too intense". Than my mom said something like "well maybe you didn't try hard enough?" and thats when I basically lost it and started cursing at them.
"You don't know a FUCKING THING about how 'hard' I tried!!! I've have used every ounce of energy I could to taper, it DOES NOT work." And eventually they stopped talking and took me to my schools drug counselor, who told them I had to go to rehab because of the amount of drugs I was on. That there was no way I was tapering or doing it w/out a detox.

I guess I got lucky in that respect that my parents were still openminded somewhat. I'm not sure if your dad is the type of guy to say "well fuck it, if you can't stop then I'm done with you". Cause my dad definitely is the type to say something like that, but my mom is much more level headed about things.
It truely is looking more and more to me like you are stuck.

And in those situations it can really have to get ugly before you get "unstuck". I just wish I didn't have to go down that route. Is it gonna be worth going back to prison just cause your dad was ignorant about addiction? Definitely not.
I came to the end of this previous addiction with the same mindset as you. "If I tell my parents ANYTHING its over".
But that became reason for me to find willpower to taper. Not reason to keep using. You keep using, and you need to have willpower now more than ever.

In a way I feel like you'd be 100times better off right now not buying ANYMORE sub, OR methadone, OR dope, and maybe trying the pod route? Pods are NOT difficult at all to taper. Sub was a mfkr in that respect, and adding methadone and heroin to the equation essentially makes it impossible.
Pods never had those huge crashes that sub did. And subs not even a full agonist which is weird. Its such so damn strong that when you come down from your dose it hits you hard. Pods are damn strong too, but the crashes were completely tolerable. I can't even wrap my head around what the come downs from heroin must be like (comedown as in prewd stages).

You still gotta use your mind and try things dude. What if you took pods and were like "wow, these hold me pretty good and are easy to taper". You just have to look at logic. Logic is that I see A TON of people on this forum successfully tapering from them.
I see A LOT LESS people tapering off subs/heroin/methadone. And the ones that do are usually sick as all fuck no matter what.

Idk man I just found it fairly easy to taper with pods. I think you should try. Sure the paws are no fun but I would have to work pretty hard to get back into severe wds now. And that shit is simply not fun.
You should try stablizing on some pod tea, then taper it down. It might break the associations you have with scoring/doing heroin and aid the taper more psychologically. I'm almost out of ideas at this point man. I mean at some point you really need to accept its gonna be hard no matter what. But in another way you make it that hard at the same time. You have built sobriety up into such a chore thats its not. Everyday you're STILL taking multiple drugs and STILL chasing a high. Theres no logical reason for you to be doing sub/heroin AND methadone if you have ANY remote desire to actually stop using opiates.

You were on the sub by itself for a while so I know you have the willpower. I just think you've tricked yourself into the idea that getting clean is for w/e reason impossible for you.. which its not. And no matter what your history says, or me, or people on this forum, if you had the DESIRE TO STOP, thats the ONLY thing stepping in the way of being clean.

Your first job should be to crawl out of psychological hole of thinking you can't control how many drugs you take.
And you need to start becoming comfortable with a certain level of sickness everyday. It doesn't even have to feel like a cold, if you gradually stablize on ONE DOSE OF ONE DRUG for a week, then slowly drop it. You CAN STOP.
Its not rocket science bro I've said it before.

You have the rest of your life to use heroin and waste your life away. But you're using like its going out of style. It seems almost to me like you subconsciously realize this is the end of the road, so you're trying to have as many last hurrahs as possible.

But I don't think you really realize that the road ended 100 miles back, and you're not really having any "hurrahs" anymore. Call the addiction for what it is, NOT FUN ANYMORE. What other sort of motivation do you really need? Does the idea of being sober not appeal to you? It really is a lot more fun than what you're doing with your life now.
Sobriety opens to the door to unlimited potential and happiness in life, while being high all the time will only further imprison you to hell.

Just accept the fact its over bro I mean somedays I have absolutely no clue whats going through your head anymore. "I wanna stop", "I used sub", "I wanna stop", "I used heroin", "I wanna stop", "I used methadone", "I wanna stop" BUT YOU WON'T STOP. You can NOT possibly like the life you are living anymore dude I don't get it. Make up your mind one final time and at least get a week or 2 of proper tapering accomplished. Focus on small goals cause they will give you will power for the bigger ones.

Otherwise, you ARE gonna have to accept the fact that your life is not in your hands anymore. And where it winds up I really really hope you're ok with. But I sure as hell know I'd fight it with every last ounce of strength I had no matter what excuses I had not to. The road is nearing an end soon bro... make up your mind for once and just roll with the punches. You keep making this so much harder than it really is or should be.
 
Wow amazing how many peoplle dont get it ..........................

No, we get it just fine. Apparently you don't get it or don't want to get it. The problem is the way you're doing things and not listening to the advice you get. The way you think is right hasn't worked too well for you, has it? So don't expect nothing to change unless you make some changes yourself. And no, that doesn't mean start another sub taper.
 
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I just think you've tricked yourself into the idea that getting clean is for w/e reason impossible for you.. which its not. And no matter what your history says, or me, or people on this forum, if you had the DESIRE TO STOP, thats the ONLY thing stepping in the way of being clean.

Your first job should be to crawl out of psychological hole of thinking you can't control how many drugs you take.

Yeah for real, I've been somewhat following your recent threads and I get where you're coming from. I really do. I literally JUST realized that I was actually in control of everything I did and put into my body. It's exactly as Bojangles described it above, you literally feel like you CAN NOT stop using, when in reality there is nothing further from the truth. The thing that sucks is that it's hard to realize it while your mind is so clouded by the ups and downs of addiction. You CAN get on the road to getting clean with a decent amount of willpower (I'm by no means any sort of saint or expert on willpower since this is only my third day completed on suboxone off a decent size OC habit but it really is true) It truly is the first step to recovery, sounds cliche but it's so true.

The first day you decide to get clean is the worst imo. You have no real reason to stay clean that day, nothing to throw away, your life is already shit so it doesn't really matter if you use again that day. BUT if you just take one day and say I'm not gonna use today who knows maybe at some point you will be so fed up with this endless cycle of addiction that you'll want to build on that one day and make it two. Then three. Then a week, etc etc. You'll find that after a while you'll start to feel SO much better (which is exactly why I am taking the opportunity to do it NOW, there's no better time you know!) I can't even stress how much easier life is when you're clean. Frankly I can't wait until I've built up a lot of clean time, shit even three days of just avoiding wd's on sub but not being high is an incredible accomplishment. Baby steps.

Posting on this forum isn't going to get you clean. I'm by no means trying to say that bluelight isn't a great resource for those trying to straighten up (in fact I have a thread in TDS right now about trying to get clean and it is amazing how helpful of a thing the internet can be) but I feel like you've somehow deluded yourself that posting on here will better your situation or something. Dude, if you want it, just DO IT. Take that first giant leap and the rest will fall into place if you really want this. Look into suboxone maintenance again if you feel you really cannot do it on your own, but I'd highly suggest just either going cold turkey and sticking it out for a week to ultimately feel great afterward or tapering, though I'm fairly certain you don't possess adequate will power to do a successful taper, no offense.

We on bluelight can't get you clean. YOU need to get you clean. From the various other threads I've read of yours it seems like you never even really take into consideration the great advice people have tried to give you so I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to get clean, though I do hope for the best for you. Remember, You can do anything you set your mind to.
 
Wow amazing how many peoplle dont get it ..........................There comes a point when your parents help you for years and years and finally get so fed up that they say "you know what , you are on your own " I am one step away from that happening. I asked my dad if i can use my insurance for rehab and when he found out it cost 500 buks plus 200 a day even with my insurance he said "YOu need to just taper off, get a job , and finish school"[/Q


its funny me and u r in the same boat i honestly wish i can go back to rehab but like u said last time my pops sent me 2 rehab this is the last time n if i relapse he wont talk to me anymore and he wasnt kidding the last time after that my dad didnt wanna hear it n my uncle wound up paying for my rehab then after that relapse my girl went to my father behind my back and told him that im doin really bad n guess what he paid for my rehab again as much as he told me last time that he will cut me off n not talk to me he still helped me again mayb its cuz im the only son i duno cuz my dad is a no joke hard person he fought 3 wars n all that so hes a serious person but he is my father he doesnt mind paying again for the rehab its not the money i guess its just tough love but honestly now like today i really wanna go back 2 rehab n i cant because i cant face him again n all my friends tel me im crazy for not asking for help but im done i rather do anything but go up to my dad n tel him dad i need to go away again even tho i honestly feel like he knows anyways just like yours probably also knows but as long as no one mentions it then whatever cuz on me u can c it right away when i relapse i loose weight automatically n im skinny as it is so u can tell right away when 10 pounds dissapears basically u just gotta do it on ur own n thats it that is what im doin right now 2day is day 7 for me on subs n i can stretch a 8mg sub for like 3 weeks lol n ive bin doin dope from age 17 i am 24 now i dont hav no baby habit but trust me the sub is stronger then u think that more is less shit is true i went 2 vegas 4 a week like a month ago 2 kick there n i made 4mg last me the whole time when i was in full blown w/d i cant say i felt perfect but nuthing makes me feel perfect in w/d anyways hows ur benzo sistuation goin? as u guys know i really suck at punctuation so sorry if its hard 2 read
 
Haha! You are getting funny Jake.

All I have left in my water bottle is half a bottle, but that doesn't mean I can't just go refill it. Every single time you ever type "I only have x amount left", the following day you have double that amount left.

It definitely seems like you only write that cause you get anxious, but you know better than us that you don't only have 4mg left. Tommorow you'll get another 8mgs and swallow the whole thing.
 
I can recount the same addicted to Heroin for X amount of years, jail X amount of times, friends died X amount of times... but I will spare you all.

why do we even try? you know Jake is only going to quit dope when he wants to. it sounds like you don't want to. so be it Jake. I don't mean to be nihilistic but one only drops the habit when one is ready amirite?

if you don't feel like quittin, then - use clean needles, don't die, and don't get arrested. have fun and feel good, until the feelin good runs out
 
if i had the money id stay high honestly but at same time i wish i could be clean and be happy with it
 
^
so would i : ) if i had my own private island n enough money for food n shit i would just grow my own poppy plants n live there by myself 4 ever unlese ofcourse i had a hot junkie wife 2 : ) but hey u never know that might happen one day but for now til i hav all that money i gotta stay clean : ( but im tryin to make the best of it i will never b able 2 get that island if i dont stop now
jake i was askin bout the benzos addiction wise
do u take the kpis evreyday?
have u tried skipping days n c how u feel?
sorry i just wanna know cuz ive also bin taking benzos sometimes i take xanax evrey night for 2 weeks then ill go a week without them n back n forth n im really not sure if i get w/d from them or not cuz i just think its my opiate w/d so im confused as if im sick from benzos or not its not like im dying im doin fine wit the subs but after a week on subs id think the sweating n shit would stop by now but it doesnt so mayb im goin thru benzo w/d i duno sheyyttt!!!!!!!!wut u think?
 
i just got on suboxone maintenance 10 days ago and its true that even on a high dose (mine is 16 mg) those WDs and horrible negative thoughts come creeping crawling in. When your mind starts to wake up and you realise you'll either never use dope again or simply die off faster with more misery, you kind of hate yourself and feel ashamed. the same feelings that keep you using. just forgive yourself. in time your family and my family will forgive me. the point is for those who are in love with opiates, it is simply impossible to quit without help. this means many things. detox, slow or fast, finding inner content, finding a way to brush off others negativity and the world's bullshit, finding patience, and realising that the only result of continually fucking up will be your visit to your Maker is gonna come much sooner. my parents are helping me through thick and thin but i know i cant test their support any longer. and my own. i know that NEXT time i fuck, i will break like an egg. so that is keeping me in the mindset - as well as the suboxone - that I simply WILL NOT INJECT OPIATES OR USE THEM OTHERWISE EVER AGAIN. Keep repeating that yourself like a mantra once youre on maintenance. if oyu've reached a point (like me) where even a week clean is like some Herculean feat, you NEED desperate help no matter what you're taking in what route. [jake, dont listen to those hypocrites who call you some hopeless case because theyve been clean for fucking TWO WEEKS and pretend like they've nevere touched dope!) so bite the bullet and say hello to your Face before the word rips it off for you and your family dies with you. Amen.
does it feel crazy? yes. does it feel horribly scary actually deciding in your mind never to use again? extremely. psychotically. is the suboxone gonna help? yes. but its only a temporary crutch while you heal. treat it like a pill without colours and contours or something that youre eventually shit out never to twig with again.

[these words are mostly me talking to myself. i dont know you at all, lol. and i am trying to get totally clean both because i am in massive debt because of my use but also because i know my mind, my body, my family, spirit-life-love simply will not withstand another crisis period of drug binging]
 
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who cares what anyone thinks? you are your own world; your own god. if you chase the dragon of destruction you will only create pain, not pleasure. so make your choices very wisely in the long sad road to recovery.
 
totach i take k pins every day i need them , i have real bad anxiety , control denied i was seeing a sub doc for a few months but it was really expensive and i would just end up using becuse i knew i had a sub stash to fall back on..............so so far today i had a sub yesterday 6 mg woke up kinad crappy this morning but also had taken mad zanex last night ..........made it to class, then copped a bun .............now i have half a sub left 4 mg.............oh the joys of opiate addictions
 
i can see why everyones gettting so frustrated with you. it seems you havent suffered enough of the truly dark - pitch black - sides of opiate abuse that convince even the fiendiest fiend that it is evil, devil-dreamed-up stuff that is a curse that, to glamorise, and yet swallow the poison, is just from a rational perspective a disgusting and shocking human act that sadly many of us more sensitive humans cling to senselessly and desperately, a trend that is stronger than hunger or lust.

you sound very young (im only 24 thoi guess). that's sad you're abusing the system, your parents money,besides your SELF which i do but Honour amongst thieves (ecept in this case Junkies) as i say

sadly for me, thoguh the subs are helping hugely in many ways, they have a terrible effect of making me feel listless, emotionally numb and confused, and shakey. kind of like SSRIs mixed with opiates, just like fucking tramadol. seizure sauce. there is no magic medicine... i hope these symptoms are temporary. the idea of relapsing due to a craving while detoxing off subs makes me want to actually commit suicide. i just feel like i cant carry this burden and watch my family watch me do this and fall with me, basically.

hopefully that idea alone will deter me forever. added to this is this bizarre craving for cigarettes which i normally never have.
 
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okay that sounds hash, you're going throug thru the same shit we all are, i guess you meant "joy" in a sarcastic way...but i think you are lacking that time in which you acknowledge your problem a lot more than you seem to be.

and actually try the solutions.

which admittedly i havent hard enoug at all
 
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