Opioids Tianeptine Megathread v1

[pinpoint]

Considering tianeptine has been used to relieve symptoms of withdrawals in opioid-dependent individuals it's safe to assume tianeptine can be addictive in and of itself. I can attest that there is indeed a withdrawal syndrome not at all unlike other full agonist opioids. Mu agonism is mu agonism. However I still believe you'd actually have to put some real effort in to getting yourself in to a situation where you're addicted to this compound. It doesn't exactly last long or provide a very euphoric high. If it wasn't for it's legality & ease of access it probably wouldn't even be worth chasing.

 

[Anamo7tram]

Tianeptine is definitely addictive, a quick Google search shows plenty of cases where people took grams per day, YES grams! Becouse they got addiction.

 

[Mycophile]

Any opioid will have strong and immediate antidepressant effects. Doesn't make heroin a good idea to "spot dose" for depression.

The problem here is that people who think they're only going to take opioids like this occasionally almost invariably wind up cheating a little bit here and there until they're eventually taking it everyday and hopelessly addicted. I'm sure you think you're different, but so did everybody else.

I have depression that's very treatment-resistant and wound up addicted to opioids because they're the only thing that helped - not therapy, not MAOIs, NOTHING ELSE worked. And still I regret it every single day. If you're going to be stubborn and do this either way, at least lose the fantasy and do it with the knowledge that you are resigning yourself to a life of addiction, because you almost certainly are.

I have never taken Tianeptine and don't plan on it as from what I have heard it isn't that great, but I am just wondering for the sake of argument if you'd say the same thing about plain leaf Kratom or do you see that stuff differently?

Because if you WOULD say the exact same thing about it, then I think you are going a bit overboard.

I've been taking Kratom 3 times a week for the past year and haven't yet given in to the urge to use more knowing about the problem of addiction, and I am quite confident I never will.

I have seen no signs of addiction other than VERY mild RLS which was good to experience because it warned me if using it more, which I haven't, hence avoiding addiction.

Therefore, I find it a bit insulting to assume that some people are "resigning themselves to lives of addiction" if they experiment with any opioid whatsoever across the board.

However, just about any stronger opioid I'd probably agree with you, like Oxycodone or Vicodin or god forbid anything stronger, but not plain leaf Kratom.

 

[deruyityn]

Ye I thought he was being rather melodramatic there. In fact what he says is patently false. His statement claims 'take tianeptine even once and you are resigned to a life of opiate addiction'. Well like i said look at the millions of people who have taken it without incident as an anti depressant.

Unlike most people on here Ive also done alot of reading of academic books related to addiction and many say even heroin addicts grow out of their addictions and without the need to go into any institutionalised program. Not saying it is advisable to take it in the first place but the statistics show it isnt a hopeless fate.

I got into reading that stuff cos I was fed up of the stupid rhetoric of the 'disease model' of addiction which if you look into it has its roots in religion and faith based circles. It was alcoholics anonymous (who were originally volunteer bible bashers) who started with this stuff since they said you have to give into a higher power and first you have to give up your free will to do so and so the disease model folowed from there.

I have never taken Tianeptine and don't plan on it as from what I have heard it isn't that great, but I am just wondering for the sake of argument if you'd say the same thing about plain leaf Kratom or do you see that stuff differently?

Because if you WOULD say the exact same thing about it, then I think you are going a bit overboard.

I've been taking Kratom 3 times a week for the past year and haven't yet given in to the urge to use more knowing about the problem of addiction, and I am quite confident I never will.

I have seen no signs of addiction other than VERY mild RLS which was good to experience because it warned me if using it more, which I haven't, hence avoiding addiction.

Therefore, I find it a bit insulting to assume that some people are "resigning themselves to lives of addiction" if they experiment with any opioid whatsoever across the board.

However, just about any stronger opioid I'd probably agree with you, like Oxycodone or Vicodin or god forbid anything stronger, but not plain leaf Kratom.

 

[Tryptamite]

Tianeptine acts as an opiate. It is more noticeable in higher doses.

300mg pure powder IV took away my heroin withdrawal and gave me an opiate like rush.

I can definitely see it being addictive in higher doses. But I don't think it will cause too many problems in prescribed doses and slightly higher. 50mg a day should be a breeze to come off if there are any withdrawals at all.

 

[deruyityn]

I see the risk is pretty small but I do know from the reports that the withdrawals are alot worse than kratom IF one were to have problems so the stakes do seem a little higher.

At the same time though my despression gets really crushing in summer watching every else having fun living it up rubbing it in my face with every loser with his super hot girlfriend and me just wallowing in misery alone. So I have to try something. Ive had so many summers where the exact same thing happens and I just feel helpless to it.

 

[Mad Dash]

I see the risk is pretty small but I do know from the reports that the withdrawals are alot worse than kratom IF one were to have problems so the stakes do seem a little higher.

At the same time though my despression gets really crushing in summer watching every else having fun living it up rubbing it in my face with every loser with his super hot girlfriend and me just wallowing in misery alone. So I have to try something. Ive had so many summers where the exact same thing happens and I just feel helpless to it.

I should ask brother, how old are you? What is the deal with your depression and the comments about girlfriends and such? Have you tried talking to a girl and taking them out? If you are young I promise it is not as difficult as you might think it is, but I promise you girls are not going to walk up to you and ask you out. Be bold and just ask a girl on a date. Doing drugs is not gonna help.

 

[deruyityn]

No dating advise please it just boils my rage. I know how to get girls just my self esteem is bottomed out so i need a synthetic booster. Please resist the urge for more advice about excercise and meditation etce tc etc.

Im thinking the golden elixir could be 2-fa that shit really made me into a terminator.

Does tianeptine feel much differnet than kratom? is it any more pro social? ive read some reports that it also feels quite stimmy. I am thinking it might be a safer bet than taking rcs.

 

[Anamo7tram]

No dating advise please it just boils my rage. I know how to get girls just my self esteem is bottomed out so i need a synthetic booster. Please resist the urge for more advice about excercise and meditation etce tc etc.

Im thinking the golden elixir could be 2-fa that shit really made me into a terminator.

Does tianeptine feel much differnet than kratom? is it any more pro social? ive read some reports that it also feels quite stimmy. I am thinking it might be a safer bet than taking rcs.

God forbid you actully build your self esteem and confidence instead of using drugs.

It's not how to get girls and boost your confidence , it's how to become a person. Who girls want to be with and is confident.

Start with excersize, become productive, follow your passions, life is an RPG and you need to level up.

 

[Tryptamite]

If you use drugs to complete social tasks and get over fears there will come a time when you need to stop the drugs and you will have to learn all that social handling shit that you should have learned when you were younger, except now you're older, dont have a clue how to handle situations and things are extra awkward. Take it from me brother. Thank Jebus for my valium script, I cannot handle reality after 7 years on heroin, but slowly getting there.

 

[deruyityn]

There is such a double standard about the use of drugs for self improvement. Its forbidden to use illicit drugs for it but its A ok to use doctor prescribed anti depressants.

Kratom has improved my productivity when im on it. Im not slavishly attached to it like ppl insist I would be. I take it only once every few days. Took a month off recently. No biggy.

 

[Mad Dash]

It is not about it being a double standard if you use drugs instead of learning valuable social skills you will never learn them, and when you eventually have to quit using you will have nothing.

 

[Moredopamine]

Any use of any immediately reinforcing and euphorigenic drug will being the chain of cellular signaling cascades that lead to substance abuse and, potentially, eventual substance dependence - and thus withdrawal upon discontinuation of the drug.

 

[Anamo7tram]

There is such a double standard about the use of drugs for self improvement. Its forbidden to use illicit drugs for it but its A ok to use doctor prescribed anti depressants.

Kratom has improved my productivity when im on it. Im not slavishly attached to it like ppl insist I would be. I take it only once every few days. Took a month off recently. No biggy.

Am actully against the use of any psych drugs, even legal ones, the exception being antipsychotics.

If your depressed, change your life not your brain, am a firm believer that no one is born depressed or ADHD, but that the environment is mismatched with their psychy.

 

[Mycophile]

Am actully against the use of any psych drugs, even legal ones, the exception being antipsychotics.

If your depressed, change your life not your brain, am a firm believer that no one is born depressed or ADHD, but that the environment is mismatched with their psychy.

Whether or not people are BORN with depression or anxiety is less the issue IMO.

If you have it, you have it.

Of course overall the most healthy thing is to deal with them without overuse of drugs, but drugs can still be extremely helpful.

I have an anxiety disorder, and whether or not I was born with it, Klonopin is very helpful for me and I can be more productive when on it in confronting anxiety producing situations and can't see how it could be considered wrong to ever use it to help me through them.

To be 100% dependent on ALWAYS taking something like that to face life is of course bad, but SOME usage for that reason is totally understandable IMO.

I don't think we should come down on the OP so hard for wanting something to help him with lifes stressors.

Most of us here have used a drug for to deal with stress, anxiety or depression at one time or another.


Also, you say 'if you are depressed change your life not your brain" but many times changing your brain is necessary to change your life.

Many of us can use substances to confront new situations, which then changes our life which changes our brain and then afterwards lower the dosage or the drug or not take it at all and have an improved life at that point.

Also, as far as not being born with mental illness, certain mental illnesses have been scientifcally proven.

Bipolar/Manic depression for example, is a scientific and medically proven FACT which is barely challenged by anyone anymore, and results in a difference in brain activity and needs medication to treat.

http://www.mhanp.org/mayoclinic.bipolar.html

 

[Mycophile]

Any use of any immediately reinforcing and euphorigenic drug will being the chain of cellular signaling cascades that lead to substance abuse and, potentially, eventual substance dependence - and thus withdrawal upon discontinuation of the drug.

POTENTIALLY is the key word here IMO.

That doesn't mean that anyone who uses any euphoric drug will become physically dependent on it.

IMO PSYCHOLOGICAL dependence of one form or another, if you continue to use the drug, is probably closer to being unavoidable eventually.

 

[pinpoint]

^ Physical dependence is the inevitability of chronic mu agonism. The key word is 'chronic'.. nobody is going to get a physical dependence from one-off usage but everyone will develop one with chronic administration regardless of whether they have a psychological addiction (re: chronic pain patients).

 

[Mycophile]

^ Physical dependence is the inevitability of chronic mu agonism. The key word is 'chronic'.. nobody is going to get a physical dependence from one-off usage but everyone will develop one with chronic administration regardless of whether they have a psychological addiction (re: chronic pain patients).

Agreed, but what is considered "chronic"??

So far (fingers crossed) using plain leaf Kratom 3 times a week hasn't cause me to develop serious physical dependence other than some very minor RLS or a tiny bit of irritability, so I think I can keep that going indefinitely, but I can't deny I have a PSYCHOLOGICAL dependence/craving for it...albeit one I think I could stop if I really had a reason or desire for it, at the very least for a while.

 

[Anamo7tram]

Agreed, but what is considered "chronic"??

So far (fingers crossed) using plain leaf Kratom 3 times a week hasn't cause me to develop serious physical dependence other than some very minor RLS or a tiny bit of irritability, so I think I can keep that going indefinitely, but I can't deny I have a PSYCHOLOGICAL dependence/craving for it...albeit one I think I could stop if I really had a reason or desire for it, at the very least for a while.

I believe the euphoric effects of tianeptine start at 50mg. So perhaps that is chronic threshold.

I still stand with what I said, the more beat up you got, the more panic striken you are, the more you can handle it in the future, why take those drugs? To handle the toughest situations? But then you will crumble in tough situations.

The only use of drugs is occasional fun and knowledge, in moderation. Anything else is counter productive to the end your trying to reach.

Anxiety, depression, and all the other stuff is psychological, yes there are people more prone to them due to brain chemistry but these are the people that should avoid those drugs and work on themselfs.

Also Bipolar like all mentally illnesses , is not a fact in the proper scientific method, psychatry is pseudoscience, as far as I can see.

Nonetheless, even if bipolar is real, they only need antipsychotics, which if you look at my previous post, I excluded them from my criticism, since they may prevent dangoures behavior

 

[Mycophile]

I believe the euphoric effects of tianeptine start at 50mg. So perhaps that is chronic threshold.

I still stand with what I said, the more beat up you got, the more panic striken you are, the more you can handle it in the future, why take those drugs? To handle the toughest situations? But then you will crumble in tough situations.

The only use of drugs is occasional fun and knowledge, in moderation. Anything else is counter productive to the end your trying to reach.

Anxiety, depression, and all the other stuff is psychological, yes there are people more prone to them due to brain chemistry but these are the people that should avoid those drugs and work on themselfs.

Also Bipolar like all mentally illnesses , is not a fact in the proper scientific method, psychatry is pseudoscience, as far as I can see.

Nonetheless, even if bipolar is real, they only need antipsychotics, which if you look at my previous post, I excluded them from my criticism, since they may prevent dangoures behavior

Sorry, I strongly disagree with a lot of your points.

You must not have an anxiety disorder or depression to have the view points you hold.

Panic attacks are real, depression is real, these things can be extremely difficult at times to handle without medications and using medications to help with them will not always weaken an individual.

There are chemical reasons for a lot of these disorders despite the fact that there are also environmental factors, both are almost always a part of any mental illness.

I dont' think psychiatry is pseudoscience, I believe that it is in fact becoming more and more of a hard science and Bipolar has absolutely been proven as fact and that it has genetic factors and that one can be born with it.

I don't think you have ever had a panic attack for example, but if you had you would see how useful anti-anxiety drugs are.

Many times people who are anxiety stricken or have deep depression can only tackle their fears with the help of drugs, but then afterwards will be stronger for having concurred those fears even despite the fact that they used drugs to help with them.

For example, if you are dealing with a severe agoraphobic who is afraid to leave their own house then good luck getting them to tackle their fears without a medication, but many times the use of a benzo or anti-anxiety med combined with therapy will give them the ability to leave their houses and tackle their fears.

Later on, once they are out of the house, the medication can be tapered down until they can leave their houses without medication.