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The Suicide support thread
- Thread starter n3ophy7e
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sconnie420
Ex-Bluelighter
Aww sweetie, did something did something happen?.. Shoot me a pm if u like, I'm here 4 ya..
Username123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 96
So here's why I want to kill myself. I probably won't for a couple of months because with the method I want to, it's easy to fuck up, and suicide is the one thing I'm not going to fuck up. I've laid out this argument to several friends. All of them gave up on arguing against me. I'm going to give bluelight a chance, perhaps someone here has been closer to my position than my friends are.
Anyways, background info: 19, virgin, never kissed anyone, been on one date. moderate social anxiety (formerly severe), MDD. Abusive childhood. Not currently on meds, perhaps I'm still withdrawing from phenelzine, I've only been off of it completely for 9 or 10 days now. The first 3 was just a repetition of suicidal thought loops. Phenelzine worked, but it made me worse cognitively. I've spent all my time being a spectacular student with straight A's all throughout high school and college, attending a top school. Learning is all I have, I can't ruin it with fucking meds. I've also had years of therapy. It mostly helped a little with the social anxiety.
To move on:
Premise 1) I have always been alone. I do not feel any emotional connection with family, particularly my parents. I do not speak to my dad, currently. As far as I can remember, I have felt this way all 19 years of my life. Sure I have friends, but I've never been in a relationship.
Premise 2) I've been working on changing these aspects of my life the past 5 years. I've made practically no progress (one date that I fucked up due to anxiety? The notion of me ever being confident is a joke).
Premise 3) Women are attracted to confidence and interesting people.
Premise 4) I'm not interesting, my hobbies are math, science (applied math?), weightlifting, drugs--the combination of these is not interesting to anyone.
Premise 5) I'm not capable of internalizing confidence. Confidence is a joke anyways. I feel like I know very little, I'd be lying to myself if I was confident. I find it difficult to do so. Except, perhaps, on a combination of benzos or phenibut and d-amp.
I will argue: I will always be alone. This loneliness makes life painful. Suicide is an escape from pain. There is no joy in my life other than drugs. Math and science make things feel less painful, but does not make me not unhappy.
Argument:
Given my background and premises, I have never attracted a woman and never will. Note: I'm not physically unattractive, at least--I've had women clearly hit on me, I'm just too socially retarded (and always have been--I never really had the chance to learn social skills given my abusive upbringing) to get anywhere.
My idea that I never will is based on probability. Let's assume I will live until 70 (I hope not...) Then 19 years is slightly more than 25% of my life. Now, let's say meeting people will primarily occur before the age of 40. 19 is slightly less than 50% of my life. Now throughout these 19 years, it has been a 100% probability of me being alone (looking only at the interval from my date of birth to this exact moment). That has always been the case. I have put 5 years of effort in changing this. Nothing has happened. So over 5 years, I've made no difference in my probability of being alone. Given these circumstances, it is a low probability that I will a) ever not be alone given my life so far and a low probability that b) ever be able to change the circumstances that make me alone.
So why bother? The probably is non-zero sure, but the probability that unicorns exist is non-zero. It's so small that it makes no sense to believe it will occur in a lifetime.
So this loneliness, it always has, and still does, make life painful. And I emphasize the word painful. Sure I'm sad, apathetic, unmotivated, but that's all irrelevant. What makes me want to kill myself is that every second I am alive is painful. Then:
a) I am alone.
b) I am in pain because I am alone.
c) I will always be alone.
d) Therefore, I will always be in pain.
e) The only solution is suicide.
Counterarguments people have given:
1) People have gotten over anxiety and depression.
Response: This is the dumbest argument because there are also people that haven't. As far as I see it, neither of these will ever change since they're a function of my loneliness, which is strictly increasing.
2) There's more to life than relationships
Response: Sure. Are you willing to live all of life without any relationships? Would you feel that way if you never had a relationship and felt like you would never experience such a thing? Do you have a family that cares about you? Do you really know what it's like to truly be fucking alone? If you do, then you know damn well why someone would want a relationship.
3) You're just going through phenelzine withdrawal
Response: At this point I'm at how I remember feeling pre-phenelzine. This is confirmed by looking at my writing before, during, and after.
4) But you actually are interesting.
Response to women: You're lying. Some of the women who've told me this I've asked out and they said no. Some I haven't. Either way, it's clear none of them have any interest in me and are just lying to try and make me "feel better".
Response to men: All my male friends are studying, math, a physical science and are heavily into drugs. All three of those things are cockfests. And any woman who is in either 3 of those things is relatively high-value to the rest of the men in those groups, all of which are generally more socially competent than I am.
Someone here have better counterarguments?
Anyways, background info: 19, virgin, never kissed anyone, been on one date. moderate social anxiety (formerly severe), MDD. Abusive childhood. Not currently on meds, perhaps I'm still withdrawing from phenelzine, I've only been off of it completely for 9 or 10 days now. The first 3 was just a repetition of suicidal thought loops. Phenelzine worked, but it made me worse cognitively. I've spent all my time being a spectacular student with straight A's all throughout high school and college, attending a top school. Learning is all I have, I can't ruin it with fucking meds. I've also had years of therapy. It mostly helped a little with the social anxiety.
To move on:
Premise 1) I have always been alone. I do not feel any emotional connection with family, particularly my parents. I do not speak to my dad, currently. As far as I can remember, I have felt this way all 19 years of my life. Sure I have friends, but I've never been in a relationship.
Premise 2) I've been working on changing these aspects of my life the past 5 years. I've made practically no progress (one date that I fucked up due to anxiety? The notion of me ever being confident is a joke).
Premise 3) Women are attracted to confidence and interesting people.
Premise 4) I'm not interesting, my hobbies are math, science (applied math?), weightlifting, drugs--the combination of these is not interesting to anyone.
Premise 5) I'm not capable of internalizing confidence. Confidence is a joke anyways. I feel like I know very little, I'd be lying to myself if I was confident. I find it difficult to do so. Except, perhaps, on a combination of benzos or phenibut and d-amp.
I will argue: I will always be alone. This loneliness makes life painful. Suicide is an escape from pain. There is no joy in my life other than drugs. Math and science make things feel less painful, but does not make me not unhappy.
Argument:
Given my background and premises, I have never attracted a woman and never will. Note: I'm not physically unattractive, at least--I've had women clearly hit on me, I'm just too socially retarded (and always have been--I never really had the chance to learn social skills given my abusive upbringing) to get anywhere.
My idea that I never will is based on probability. Let's assume I will live until 70 (I hope not...) Then 19 years is slightly more than 25% of my life. Now, let's say meeting people will primarily occur before the age of 40. 19 is slightly less than 50% of my life. Now throughout these 19 years, it has been a 100% probability of me being alone (looking only at the interval from my date of birth to this exact moment). That has always been the case. I have put 5 years of effort in changing this. Nothing has happened. So over 5 years, I've made no difference in my probability of being alone. Given these circumstances, it is a low probability that I will a) ever not be alone given my life so far and a low probability that b) ever be able to change the circumstances that make me alone.
So why bother? The probably is non-zero sure, but the probability that unicorns exist is non-zero. It's so small that it makes no sense to believe it will occur in a lifetime.
So this loneliness, it always has, and still does, make life painful. And I emphasize the word painful. Sure I'm sad, apathetic, unmotivated, but that's all irrelevant. What makes me want to kill myself is that every second I am alive is painful. Then:
a) I am alone.
b) I am in pain because I am alone.
c) I will always be alone.
d) Therefore, I will always be in pain.
e) The only solution is suicide.
Counterarguments people have given:
1) People have gotten over anxiety and depression.
Response: This is the dumbest argument because there are also people that haven't. As far as I see it, neither of these will ever change since they're a function of my loneliness, which is strictly increasing.
2) There's more to life than relationships
Response: Sure. Are you willing to live all of life without any relationships? Would you feel that way if you never had a relationship and felt like you would never experience such a thing? Do you have a family that cares about you? Do you really know what it's like to truly be fucking alone? If you do, then you know damn well why someone would want a relationship.
3) You're just going through phenelzine withdrawal
Response: At this point I'm at how I remember feeling pre-phenelzine. This is confirmed by looking at my writing before, during, and after.
4) But you actually are interesting.
Response to women: You're lying. Some of the women who've told me this I've asked out and they said no. Some I haven't. Either way, it's clear none of them have any interest in me and are just lying to try and make me "feel better".
Response to men: All my male friends are studying, math, a physical science and are heavily into drugs. All three of those things are cockfests. And any woman who is in either 3 of those things is relatively high-value to the rest of the men in those groups, all of which are generally more socially competent than I am.
Someone here have better counterarguments?
Pagey
Bluelight Crew
^Your whole argument is bullshit.
That's all there is to say but I'll develop.
For starters, I'm 18 and a few of my friends, who are primarily between 17 and 20, have never kissed anyone either or had a relationship or whatever. You're really young ffs. How is it that not having had a relationship at 19 = you're gonna die alone?
Yes I understand you must feel really lonely. I get that it must make you feel like shit. But I mean come on. My ex is now dating this girl who's borderline obese, has more of a mustache than he does and the personality of a cucumber. If she can find someone, I'm convinced anyone can. And you're surely more than 'anyone'.
From what I understand it lietrally sounds like you only want to kill yourself because you've never been in a relationship. In no way, shape or form is this a 'good' reason. Dunno if there are any good reasons and I guess those that sound valid to each one of us always sound stupid to others but I stick by my point, this is just a ridiculous reason to consider suicide. Your friends are right, there is more than life than relationships; and your answer to them is idiotic because once again, you're NINETEEN YEARS OLD. How the hell does that mean you're never gonna find someone? It doesn't, because that's not true.
And don't try to apply mathematical probability to that because you and I both know that relationships and emotional shit in general have nothing to do with rationality.
Also, dunno why the hell you think your hobbies aren't interesting to anyone. There's people interested in absolutely anything out there. Taking the example of my ex once again, the guy was a computer geek who spent his days playing WoW in his room or doing physics for fun, whereas I'm a lit student and considerably more outgoing etc etc. Well guess what, I was interested in him and we did spend over two awesome years together. Also I know lots of girls who are into math and science; one of my closest friends is studying math at a top school back home.
So yeah okay I'm sure it feels like shit that you've never been in a relationship. I'm sure it feels like it'll never happen. But take a step back and realize how fucking young you still are. It's just idiotic to think that because it hasn't happened yet, it never will.
Look in the past few years I've had my best friend die, I've been physically and mentally abused both by my father and my ex who then proceeded to cheat on me and dump me for one of my closest friends, my mother try to kill herself, my grandfather aka the only person in my life who was proud of me die, I was raped, anorexic, addicted to a number of drugs - and I've had people tell me I was stupid for trying to kill myself. So I'm not going to refrain from saying it to you.
That's all there is to say but I'll develop.
For starters, I'm 18 and a few of my friends, who are primarily between 17 and 20, have never kissed anyone either or had a relationship or whatever. You're really young ffs. How is it that not having had a relationship at 19 = you're gonna die alone?
Yes I understand you must feel really lonely. I get that it must make you feel like shit. But I mean come on. My ex is now dating this girl who's borderline obese, has more of a mustache than he does and the personality of a cucumber. If she can find someone, I'm convinced anyone can. And you're surely more than 'anyone'.
From what I understand it lietrally sounds like you only want to kill yourself because you've never been in a relationship. In no way, shape or form is this a 'good' reason. Dunno if there are any good reasons and I guess those that sound valid to each one of us always sound stupid to others but I stick by my point, this is just a ridiculous reason to consider suicide. Your friends are right, there is more than life than relationships; and your answer to them is idiotic because once again, you're NINETEEN YEARS OLD. How the hell does that mean you're never gonna find someone? It doesn't, because that's not true.
And don't try to apply mathematical probability to that because you and I both know that relationships and emotional shit in general have nothing to do with rationality.
Also, dunno why the hell you think your hobbies aren't interesting to anyone. There's people interested in absolutely anything out there. Taking the example of my ex once again, the guy was a computer geek who spent his days playing WoW in his room or doing physics for fun, whereas I'm a lit student and considerably more outgoing etc etc. Well guess what, I was interested in him and we did spend over two awesome years together. Also I know lots of girls who are into math and science; one of my closest friends is studying math at a top school back home.
So yeah okay I'm sure it feels like shit that you've never been in a relationship. I'm sure it feels like it'll never happen. But take a step back and realize how fucking young you still are. It's just idiotic to think that because it hasn't happened yet, it never will.
Look in the past few years I've had my best friend die, I've been physically and mentally abused both by my father and my ex who then proceeded to cheat on me and dump me for one of my closest friends, my mother try to kill herself, my grandfather aka the only person in my life who was proud of me die, I was raped, anorexic, addicted to a number of drugs - and I've had people tell me I was stupid for trying to kill myself. So I'm not going to refrain from saying it to you.
Username123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 96
To clarify:
I want to kill myself because life is painful. Life is painful because I'm alone. I'm alone due to my mental illness. I had an abusive childhood and have disconnected myself from my family, so I'm alone in that aspect as well. My mental illness will also always be there. It hasn't gotten better over time.
To respond:
You've given the same stupid arguments everyone else has:
1) You're too young. I already responded to this. If you think mathematics doesn't apply, then you're an idiot. Humans are animals, we study other animals with a rational framework, we can do that to ourselves. Saying "emotions has nothing to do with rationality" is stupid.
2) Other people got over it. It doesn't follow from this that I will get over it.
3) You know the ratio of women to men "into math" in science is really low. Regardless of how many friends you have into it.
4) You didn't counter any of my arguments. You just said "math is stupid" (i.e. one of the things that makes me lonelier, people hate math and hate people who think mathematically) and "you're young".
Username123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 96
1) Yes they are. I've read plenty of Plato, Aristotle and the classic Greek philosophers. Perhaps you should read some Frege, Russell, and Kripke. I never said animals are by virtue rational. I said we can study animals rationally. Humans are animals. Therefore, we can study humans rationally (I believe that's what the field of psychology is). And can therefore make rational propositions about human behavior.
3) http://crookedtimber.org/2011/02/04/gender-divides-in-philosophy-and-other-disciplines/
Yes. It is. I wish it was "a sexist stereotype", but it isn't. It's a sexist stereotype to assume women are worse at math or science (In fact, women are better at computation at a younger age, this falls apart as people age though because of sociocultural influences). But in sheer quantities, far less women in math and science than men.
4) "and yes, you're young. Which makes your whole argument invalid." Perhaps you should study some basic propositional logic. I'm being a prick because you clearly ignored what I said and simply said nothing but "you're young and stupid". You are being much more of an asshole. Clearly I came here to see if anyone could help. All you did was call me stupid. Congratulations.
Pagey
Bluelight Crew
I didn't ignore anything you said. I responded to it and you literally answered that I'm giving the same stupid answers as your friends did. You don't seem open at all to any kind of help and you're being quite narrow so no, I don't know how to help. I never called you stupid. I said it was stupid to consider suicide for the reasons you mentioned. Just like I was told I was stupid to try suicide for my own reasons. I'd say it to the next person who wants to kill themselves. It's not a reflection on you as a person, it's a reflection on your state of mind as you post this message, and those are two very different things.
I find it very difficult to answer to someone who posts such a cold (don't say I'm insulting you, I just mean un-emotional) and analytical suicide message because I don't understand how the two can go together and it makes it difficult for me to get exactly where you are in your reasoning.
But once again, have no idea what kind of help you're looking for so I'll jsut leave you alone.
P.S. In France where I come from, about 70% of people who go to med school (science last I checked) are women; and in science schools, math not included, the proportions are pretty mcuh equal.
I find it very difficult to answer to someone who posts such a cold (don't say I'm insulting you, I just mean un-emotional) and analytical suicide message because I don't understand how the two can go together and it makes it difficult for me to get exactly where you are in your reasoning.
But once again, have no idea what kind of help you're looking for so I'll jsut leave you alone.
P.S. In France where I come from, about 70% of people who go to med school (science last I checked) are women; and in science schools, math not included, the proportions are pretty mcuh equal.
Username123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 96
Sorry. I try not to look at it emotionally because when I allow myself to do that I'll get to the point of attempting suicide rather quick. Medical doctors are not scientists. Are they equal in physics schools? Math is what I like the most and is, by far, the most alienating. And regardless of that, I'm in the U.S., at least within the relative framework I have to work in--it is not the case that women are in the sciences as much as men.
But if you want to, I guess, know emotionally why I want to is, clearly, that I've never felt loved. Not by family, not by anyone else. Not by myself. There's not much to say about my emotional perspective beyond that. I can try writing an emotional message to you sometime, but for now I have schoolwork to attend.
Thanks for responding despite the fact that I was a cold asshole.
Pagey
Bluelight Crew
I just meant that people who go to med school are often interested in science as well. Yes here they are equal in physics schools although I'm sorry to hear it's not the same in the US.
Also, do know that it's not because less women study science that less women will be interested in a guy who does. As I mentioned, I study lit but I'm more into math/science-y guys myself.
I do find it much easier to relate when you answer like this and I'm really sorry if my previous answers were rude or whatever (not in a very good mood tonight I have to admit, though that's no excuse).
And I also know exactly what you mean regarding not ever feeling loved by anyone, including yourself; that's exactly what I've been feeling these past few years and I know how horrible and crippling it is. It's important to remind yourself that it's not true. It's silly and you won't really believe it but keep telling yourself it isn't. There ARE people who care. There are people who love you. Even though you might not be able to see it right now. You have to believe it and slowly you'll come to realize it as well.
May I ask why you feel that way in the first place?
I know how tempting it is to just put ourselves down and focus on every single thing about ourselves that we hate (could be everything atm) but we just have to remember that's not how others see us and it's a veil that can come off eventually - and it's worth sticking around just in case it does because I'm sure that'll be a wonderful moment, even though I haven't gotten there yet.
Also, do know that it's not because less women study science that less women will be interested in a guy who does. As I mentioned, I study lit but I'm more into math/science-y guys myself.
I do find it much easier to relate when you answer like this and I'm really sorry if my previous answers were rude or whatever (not in a very good mood tonight I have to admit, though that's no excuse).
And I also know exactly what you mean regarding not ever feeling loved by anyone, including yourself; that's exactly what I've been feeling these past few years and I know how horrible and crippling it is. It's important to remind yourself that it's not true. It's silly and you won't really believe it but keep telling yourself it isn't. There ARE people who care. There are people who love you. Even though you might not be able to see it right now. You have to believe it and slowly you'll come to realize it as well.
May I ask why you feel that way in the first place?
I know how tempting it is to just put ourselves down and focus on every single thing about ourselves that we hate (could be everything atm) but we just have to remember that's not how others see us and it's a veil that can come off eventually - and it's worth sticking around just in case it does because I'm sure that'll be a wonderful moment, even though I haven't gotten there yet.
roundnround
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2012
- Messages
- 171
well im not gonna beg u to live as it is your decision but i love math and science i have always had minimal friends (my own choice partially) i over analyze the hell out of everything and see relationships as a weak human need (IM ALSO MARRIED) mainly cuz thats what humans are supposed to do lol.. my friends call me a creepy genius and they definitely think im weird their attraction towards me is definitely out of novelty .. without sounding conceided im pretty damn hot and guys have always wanted me (long term not just for a 1 nighter) im not exactly sure what my point is or how to not make this sound like rambling but i guess my point is .. embrace the weirdness that is u... part of my problem is my iq is very high and life in general bores me to death.. i grew up poor and never pursued education if i had maybe i would have found more "peers" like me but i didnt.. i hang around with ghetto hookers and millionaires on a day to day basis... as a teen and young adult i always felt like i didn't really belong where i was no matter where i was i think i was fighting too hard to throw myself into a category that just didnt exist... and now at the age of 31 i can tell u .. no one fits in .. everyone is fake... and no one who exudes happiness is truly happy.. i went from wanting to put myself on a sociopath watch list to realizing im just a well rounded individual that is way too smart for my time (we live in a world of absolute bullshit if u havent noticed check out your friends facebook statuses and their awesome days and so excited had so much fun last night statuses.. i call bullshit on everyone pretty much)... hang in there kid the time will come when u realize all u r suffering from is being too awesome... relationships are overrated and mostly created out of co=dependency.. the fact that u havent had one yet is a plus for u in my book
Username123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 96
That's true, but a single case, or even several, does not hold true for the general population. My school in the U.S., even, is 2nd in % of female students who go on to get PhDs in biology, 6th in physics and chem, 8th in med school, 5th in math and computer science. And my school leans female in population. And still people here interested in that sort of thing (supposed to be a top school) is still a cockfest. Especially in math.
I feel that way because I'm certainly not loved by family, the hell would I love myself for? I see myself as a failure. It bothers me more that other people don't see me as one given that I'm studying something at a top school that could potentially lead me into a lucrative job, since that's what everyone around me fucking cares about all the time. Or into my dream job of professor. But what's the point of any of that if I always feel lonely and unloved? I don't really feel like my friends love me, sure they like me, I guess, but that's about all I can construe. Nobody else has ever loved me. I've tried to put effort towards it, and it's never gotten me anywhere. So why would it change? It's difficult for me to see how there will ever be a wonderful moment. I see "in case it does" and just think about how unlikely it is and how in the moment all I experience is pain, and that hasn't changed. Why would it ever change if it hasn't by now?
roundnround
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2012
- Messages
- 171
when i was 5 i would get spanked at night cuz i would scream for my mom to come in my room at 11:23 and then again at 12:35 (the warning usually came at 11:23 the ass whooping at 12:35) i was calling her in my room cuz i wanted her to see the magical numbers (the fibonacci sequence if u dont know) on my clock.. i didnt know they were known by other people at the time cuz i was 5 but i thought they were magical... she never got it.. still doesn't i'm married with 3 kids and only even feel connected to my middle child... u dont need to die u need to stop trying to fit in and realize "normal" is overrated
Pagey
Bluelight Crew
Why don't you feel like your friends love you? I know it can be difficult to see 'love' in friendships but it might still be there even if it isn't necessarily obvious.
I really don't think it's unlikely that it'll change for you, I really don't. It hasn't by now because well, I know it's not what you want to hear but you haven't given it that much time (not blaming you), and also it's just the sort of thing you can't force. I'd been really wanting to get into a relationship again these past couple of months and it wasn't happening which was getting me ridiculously frustrated and I also felt like it was hopeless and wouldn't happen but it randomly did. There's no logical amount of time for things like these to come, but there's also no reason to believe that they won't. You seem to be a person with a tremendous amount of potential and it would be a shame for that to go to waste.
Also, the world works in a weird way in that it's when you're not looking for a relationship or hook-ups or whatever that they'll happen...sounds cliché but it's actually kidna true.
If you believe in yourself people will find it easier to connect wih you. It's a very difficult step and it can take years to really achieve it but it's worth trying and it's worth the wait. I know you're worth more than what you think and I know everyone else can see it too.
This good friend of mine (the one I mentioned who's going to a math school) has never had a boyfriend and I can't figure out why. She's incredibly beautiful, really smart, fun, the whole package - but somehow it just hasn't happened. She beats herself up about it a lot as well and I never really know what to answer because there's no 'logical' reason why it hasn't happened yet, but I'm convinced that when she does find someone it'll be a person who will have been worth the wait and who'll be as awesome as she is.
I coupled up pretty fast with my ex, we got together when we were 15 and broke up when we were almost 18 and I can tell you, it ended so fucking badly I'm not quite sure how good of an idea it is to rush into things with people. Sometimes it's really better not to be in a relationship until the right one comes along than to be in many shitty ones.
roundnround
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2012
- Messages
- 171
when i was 5 i would get spanked at night cuz i would scream for my mom to come in my room at 11:23 and then again at 12:35 (the warning usually came at 11:23 the ass whooping at 12:35) i was calling her in my room cuz i wanted her to see the magical numbers (the fibonacci sequence if u dont know) on my clock.. i didnt know they were known by other people at the time cuz i was 5 but i thought they were magical... she never got it.. still doesn't i'm married with 3 kids and only even feel connected to my middle child... u dont need to die u need to stop trying to fit in and realize "normal" is overrated
roundnround
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2012
- Messages
- 171
sorry for the double post i just joined and have no clue what im doing
DeathDomokun
Ex-Bluelighter
You've already got a couple of replies, so I'm just gonna throw this out here as food for thought.
Chances are this isn't going to become a conversation, and I don't really care what you do, although there are people on this forum that would sincerely care if you were to kill yourself, despite never having known you.
Now I'm not trying to guilt you into living, but you have to be aware of the reality of this situation. You don't even have to had felt the 'loving' aspect of a relationship to be aware that even when you're disconnected, apathetic, empty, etc other parties can still feel a bond and connection to you. Just be aware that you're going to hurt people.
First up, you're telling me about not having kissed a girl or gone on a date. You obviously haven't been trying very hard for 5 years, if you don't look horrendous. Hell, you can even be ugly and attain that sort of physical intimacy.
I honestly think you're going to feel like absolute shit if you have a one night stand, anyway. You've built this up so much without realising the very important emotional aspect, and I think masturbating with someones vagina with no love will make you feel even worse, but you can go and try to get laid if you want.
1. If you can bond with friends, you're capable of bonding with a lover.
2. Farce.
3. Stupid. Women are attracted to things they find attractive. A lot of women are attracted to a physique with less fat and more muscle, try lifting more if you just want to pick up.
4. Interest is in the eye of the beholder. You, someone whose hobbies are as boring as maths and science, as well as repeatedly lifting heavy things, should know this.
5. What do you want to be confident in? If you don't value your time or existence, how are you supposed to value yourself?
Opposing facts: You choose to be alone. Suicide is an annihilation of your being. You have a warped perspective on attraction. You refuse to take responsibility for your personality and blame your parents for something which is in your control.
Your maths is also wrong, based on you having been underage for 18 years. You can go hit the town now. You can stop being alone, and interact with new people.
You haven't taken into account the very real possibility of taking responsibility for your life.
You see, my problem with the very basis of your proposition is my ability to think of a scenario I'm quite certain you would want to experience. A very attainable scenario.
You missed something.
a. You are alone.
b. You are lonely.
c. Loneliness hurts.
d. You continue to be alone.
e. Your loneliness is perpetual and the breaks from it aren't relieving you.
f. Finding love is a solution.
g. Your desire for love is the root of this problem, and instead of playing the odds of you finding love, you're trying to take away all chance.
Here's a counter-argument.
Do what you want.
It's against HR for me to tell you to kill yourself, but these pixels aren't going to fix your solution.
It's your responsibility, but you're rejecting it.
Attaining your fundamental desire is too hard, oh how I know. Why not give up and go for the consequent desire? It's right there, just waiting.
Hell, it doesn't even have to be an action.
You could a homage to the barrenness of it all by doing nothing.
Emerge yourself in the void until it kill you, from dehydration that is.
Go get some drugs.
Live or exist. Live or die.
Username123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 96
Because why should they? And these things haven't, and won't come. Especially for a man. I have to be prosocial and get rejected hundreds of times before I can get anywhere, like the other guy said. But I'm too socially anxious to get anywhere with that, and I've given up on my social anxiety ever going away. Maybe they've happened for you, but that's never happened for me and I doubt it will.
If your friend really is an attractive smart woman whose never had a boyfriend, people probably are just too scared to hit on her. She can probably get whatever guy she wants, if she were to say, break social norm and ask the guy on a date.
I've been on a date before, just never kissed anyone. That's not easy with my level of social anxiety. And hit the down where? A fucking coffee shop? I'm in school, it's not like parties are helpful either. Though it's not a party school. Can't do drugs for another 2 weeks, coming off an MAOI. And doing them with the intent to be social never worked in the past. And I lack access to benzos or coke. All I can really get is d-amp, alcohol and phenibut in terms of things with potential prosocial effects.
I'm taking away all chance from pain when i'm taking away all chance from love. When I said confidence, I clearly meant social confidence as that's my problem.
But that's not a counter argument. I'm aware it's my responsibility, and I've put effort towards it. And gotten nowhere, except one date, where I was practically having a continuous panic attack.
Your argument can be summed as:
"Deal with it. I did all this. So can you. If you don't want to. Kill yourself or rot away."
What if I've put effort and failed? You can believe that I haven't, I don't care if you think so. But I have put effort, and gotten nowhere.
severely etarded
Bluelight Crew
^ I would try benzos like valium and low doses of xanax to fix that socially awkward anxiety you have. As a kid that moved every couple years, I probably never really gained a sense of 'stability'. I ended up with this AMAZING 10/10 girl I've been with for 5 years, who is probably going to leave me soon anyway (that's another story...)
Xanax gave me the ability in high school to talk to all sorts of chicks I never had the balls to sober. I used to take xanny all the time in high school, and wake up the next day with phone numbers of hot chicks I didn't even remember speaking with!
The memory thing was always a problem with xanax, but my memory stays pretty clear on valium, and has the same basic principle of correcting anxiety issues.
I feel like dying a lot, but I just keep doing my thing and hoping for a terrible accident or something. I have a 357 magnum loaded with JHP's for personal protection, but I often tought about using it on myself. The only reason I haven't is I'm really just too pussy to pull the trigger. I know one well-placed shot would do the trick, probably the quickest/easiest way. I've looked up "most lethal head shots" etc. There's some hot spots that will knock your lights out quicker than you can blink (literally). - from here to a place we don't return from. Dark, I know![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
I promise I know where you're coming from man. Try the benzos for social situations. if you can get your hands on valium, awesome!
Xanax gave me the ability in high school to talk to all sorts of chicks I never had the balls to sober. I used to take xanny all the time in high school, and wake up the next day with phone numbers of hot chicks I didn't even remember speaking with!
The memory thing was always a problem with xanax, but my memory stays pretty clear on valium, and has the same basic principle of correcting anxiety issues.I feel like dying a lot, but I just keep doing my thing and hoping for a terrible accident or something. I have a 357 magnum loaded with JHP's for personal protection, but I often tought about using it on myself. The only reason I haven't is I'm really just too pussy to pull the trigger. I know one well-placed shot would do the trick, probably the quickest/easiest way. I've looked up "most lethal head shots" etc. There's some hot spots that will knock your lights out quicker than you can blink (literally). - from here to a place we don't return from. Dark, I know
I promise I know where you're coming from man. Try the benzos for social situations. if you can get your hands on valium, awesome!
Username123
You sound like an intelligent chap but clearly your judgement is clouded by depression, and an emotive depression at that, forcing you to hide in oversimplified logic. Still, you must have some of the drive left in you, even if you're dying for an immediate resolve. Your arguments are all valid, and clearly you have well thought it thru, or at least you think so. However you omitted one very important fact, which others have already pointed out but you fail to validate, thinking you know better. You have no experience and you can't say you have tried hard at this age, excuse me but it's ridiculous. Trying hard can mean years but not giving up also means you will eventually succeed -- I am old enough (33) to have friends in 30s and 40s, all of whom found their place, no matter how fucked up and hopeless they were at some point in 20s, with many of them having mental problems and drug addictions at the time. Well, apart from those few who didn't make it (RIP).
It's also not all about banging your head against wall where you believe there to be happiness on the other side. Ever so often it means coming back to the place once the wall is not there anymore, or just going around it. Stop being fixated on you being lonely, you better use your lonely time to work on your character so when the women start coming at you themselves you will be confident enough to take on some relationship. Having not to need anyone at all costs and being reasonably independent not only is very attractive to women but it also means you won't be blinded by your despair to fall in love at every chance. The same goes for friends -- most of the people can't really connect to a cold and depressed person unless they know of what his positive side is like. Not because they are selfish, they just can't really connect to someone they don't quite get, or who appears to distance himself from the others, or hide. I couldn't be more confident about what I am saying here, having been through this myself and talking with other people about the subject so many times before -- psychology and sociology are my two dearest hobbies, and I been blessed with having introverted nature with deep analysis skills and yet breaking through it to have wide friends circles and people coming to me and trusting me with their stories.
Don't fall into trap of mathematical logic (and that coming from a very logical person). Psychology is far too complicated to be calculated, although theoretically you probably could do it (unless there's a missing ingredient from the scientific recipe which is always a possibility). Experience and intuition covers that gap and that only comes with time, you can't really see the bigger picture just by plain logic, the understanding comes with time only when you have gathered enough of information. Also, you will be changing physiologically, and that's something you can't project in your head before it actually happens, no matter how much you read and study it. Another thing worth noting is that people's attitude and judgement towards each other changes dramatically with age. While you are talking about student girls you should know older women can really find scientific and mathematical types very attractive for a number of reasons. Your future SO don't have to be a mathematician herself, in fact you are more likely to be looking for someone who can complement and challenge you. You are also a very sensitive person, what is highly valued with women, although you surely try to cut down on your pain by your logic, which is a sane thing to do, just aim at a different direction, will you? In the end, you can always kill yourself later, when you have seen it all and have no desire left (at the moment you got some, although clearly unfulfilled). It's not like anyone can take it away from you.
If I am to give a practical solution then here it is what I would do if I was you. First of all, choose the life or death. As long as you contemplate the suicide, I can't see you going for what you really want/need. Only when the suicide is out of equation, you can harness the mental power to overcome your internal and external obstacles to the happiness. Be strong in what you are despite the lack of love, drop the self-pity and have some faith. You deserve it and can have it, just like the others. At much higher cost than your average person, of course, I am not gonna lie to you it will be easy. But that only adds to your value once you overcome this. You will have learnt about life and yourself as much as someone else maybe didn't in their whole life. I can see all of this I'm saying probably appears as a cheap talk to you. And it is, unless you find something in it and take it to your heart. So again, it's up to you. How are you going to get yourself together is a whole different question, and there are plenty of methods, but I don't think you can get through it by purely scientific means. Well, anyway, you got a mission here, I hope
Oh, and another thought. Why don't you try online dating, you are more likely to find the type of girls you may connect with at this age on there. Not only some of those sites have excellent matching formulas once you have given enough of information on your personality -- but they also let you to get to know each person better by exchanging letters, so to prepare grounds for meeting up.
You sound like an intelligent chap but clearly your judgement is clouded by depression, and an emotive depression at that, forcing you to hide in oversimplified logic. Still, you must have some of the drive left in you, even if you're dying for an immediate resolve. Your arguments are all valid, and clearly you have well thought it thru, or at least you think so. However you omitted one very important fact, which others have already pointed out but you fail to validate, thinking you know better. You have no experience and you can't say you have tried hard at this age, excuse me but it's ridiculous. Trying hard can mean years but not giving up also means you will eventually succeed -- I am old enough (33) to have friends in 30s and 40s, all of whom found their place, no matter how fucked up and hopeless they were at some point in 20s, with many of them having mental problems and drug addictions at the time. Well, apart from those few who didn't make it (RIP).
It's also not all about banging your head against wall where you believe there to be happiness on the other side. Ever so often it means coming back to the place once the wall is not there anymore, or just going around it. Stop being fixated on you being lonely, you better use your lonely time to work on your character so when the women start coming at you themselves you will be confident enough to take on some relationship. Having not to need anyone at all costs and being reasonably independent not only is very attractive to women but it also means you won't be blinded by your despair to fall in love at every chance. The same goes for friends -- most of the people can't really connect to a cold and depressed person unless they know of what his positive side is like. Not because they are selfish, they just can't really connect to someone they don't quite get, or who appears to distance himself from the others, or hide. I couldn't be more confident about what I am saying here, having been through this myself and talking with other people about the subject so many times before -- psychology and sociology are my two dearest hobbies, and I been blessed with having introverted nature with deep analysis skills and yet breaking through it to have wide friends circles and people coming to me and trusting me with their stories.
Don't fall into trap of mathematical logic (and that coming from a very logical person). Psychology is far too complicated to be calculated, although theoretically you probably could do it (unless there's a missing ingredient from the scientific recipe which is always a possibility). Experience and intuition covers that gap and that only comes with time, you can't really see the bigger picture just by plain logic, the understanding comes with time only when you have gathered enough of information. Also, you will be changing physiologically, and that's something you can't project in your head before it actually happens, no matter how much you read and study it. Another thing worth noting is that people's attitude and judgement towards each other changes dramatically with age. While you are talking about student girls you should know older women can really find scientific and mathematical types very attractive for a number of reasons. Your future SO don't have to be a mathematician herself, in fact you are more likely to be looking for someone who can complement and challenge you. You are also a very sensitive person, what is highly valued with women, although you surely try to cut down on your pain by your logic, which is a sane thing to do, just aim at a different direction, will you? In the end, you can always kill yourself later, when you have seen it all and have no desire left (at the moment you got some, although clearly unfulfilled). It's not like anyone can take it away from you.
If I am to give a practical solution then here it is what I would do if I was you. First of all, choose the life or death. As long as you contemplate the suicide, I can't see you going for what you really want/need. Only when the suicide is out of equation, you can harness the mental power to overcome your internal and external obstacles to the happiness. Be strong in what you are despite the lack of love, drop the self-pity and have some faith. You deserve it and can have it, just like the others. At much higher cost than your average person, of course, I am not gonna lie to you it will be easy. But that only adds to your value once you overcome this. You will have learnt about life and yourself as much as someone else maybe didn't in their whole life. I can see all of this I'm saying probably appears as a cheap talk to you. And it is, unless you find something in it and take it to your heart. So again, it's up to you. How are you going to get yourself together is a whole different question, and there are plenty of methods, but I don't think you can get through it by purely scientific means. Well, anyway, you got a mission here, I hope
Oh, and another thought. Why don't you try online dating, you are more likely to find the type of girls you may connect with at this age on there. Not only some of those sites have excellent matching formulas once you have given enough of information on your personality -- but they also let you to get to know each person better by exchanging letters, so to prepare grounds for meeting up.
Username123
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 96
@severely etarded:
I've tried getting a benzo script and failed. Used to have a xanax script. Actually ordered phenibut recently in hopes of doing what you suggested. I don't particularly find alcohol an effective anxiolytic, but I developed a bit of a tolerance to benzos when I was a moderate user slightly over a year ago. Thank you for your advice.
@66z
As for online dating, I've thought about it, but I've always been too anxious. It's really the last thing I see, I guess, in terms of things I could put effort towards.
"Trying hard can mean years but not giving up also means you will eventually succeed"
I have a lot of difficulty internalizing the latter half of this message.
"I been blessed with having introverted nature with deep analysis skills"
From my experience, those are curses, not blessings. You can clearly see from the thread of previous messages that being analytic is quite possibly the most alienating thing I could do. But it's how I dealt with my childhood--it's ingrained me; I see no me without it.
"It's also not all about banging your head against wall where you believe there to be happiness on the other side."
I don't see happiness on the other side. I merely see a will to live, or perhaps, a lack of depression (not a lack of sadness).
No offense, but a lot of what you said just seemed like the same optimistic crap rehashed in a more elegant manner with perhaps better supporting evidence. But it all rests on the anecdotal cases your familiar with that "I/friend did it and eventually succeeded". That does not necessarily mean it applies to me. Furthermore, in your group of 30-40 year old friends of course they got over their problems in their 20s, those who didn't probably killed themselves.
"You have no experience and you can't say you have tried hard at this age, excuse me but it's ridiculous."
Trying "hard" is an arbitrary construct. When you're 70 your going to think you didn't try very hard at 33 and that the notion of it is ridiculous.
"you better use your lonely time to work on your character so when the women start coming at you themselves you will be confident enough to take on some relationship"
Funny thing is, there is the rare occasion that happens (2-3 times a year if you want the frequency over the past 2 years), but my anxiety gets in the way and I fuck up every time. I don't see how this lack of confidence will ever be alleviated.
But thank you for responding anyways. You're right in saying "I can see all of this I'm saying probably appears as a cheap talk to you.", but thank you for taking the time to type that out anyways. I probably won't follow anything you said, except perhaps the online dating thing. But it's difficult to determine the future effects of me reading your advice. Thanks again.
I've tried getting a benzo script and failed. Used to have a xanax script. Actually ordered phenibut recently in hopes of doing what you suggested. I don't particularly find alcohol an effective anxiolytic, but I developed a bit of a tolerance to benzos when I was a moderate user slightly over a year ago. Thank you for your advice.
@66z
As for online dating, I've thought about it, but I've always been too anxious. It's really the last thing I see, I guess, in terms of things I could put effort towards.
"Trying hard can mean years but not giving up also means you will eventually succeed"
I have a lot of difficulty internalizing the latter half of this message.
"I been blessed with having introverted nature with deep analysis skills"
From my experience, those are curses, not blessings. You can clearly see from the thread of previous messages that being analytic is quite possibly the most alienating thing I could do. But it's how I dealt with my childhood--it's ingrained me; I see no me without it.
"It's also not all about banging your head against wall where you believe there to be happiness on the other side."
I don't see happiness on the other side. I merely see a will to live, or perhaps, a lack of depression (not a lack of sadness).
No offense, but a lot of what you said just seemed like the same optimistic crap rehashed in a more elegant manner with perhaps better supporting evidence. But it all rests on the anecdotal cases your familiar with that "I/friend did it and eventually succeeded". That does not necessarily mean it applies to me. Furthermore, in your group of 30-40 year old friends of course they got over their problems in their 20s, those who didn't probably killed themselves.
"You have no experience and you can't say you have tried hard at this age, excuse me but it's ridiculous."
Trying "hard" is an arbitrary construct. When you're 70 your going to think you didn't try very hard at 33 and that the notion of it is ridiculous.
"you better use your lonely time to work on your character so when the women start coming at you themselves you will be confident enough to take on some relationship"
Funny thing is, there is the rare occasion that happens (2-3 times a year if you want the frequency over the past 2 years), but my anxiety gets in the way and I fuck up every time. I don't see how this lack of confidence will ever be alleviated.
But thank you for responding anyways. You're right in saying "I can see all of this I'm saying probably appears as a cheap talk to you.", but thank you for taking the time to type that out anyways. I probably won't follow anything you said, except perhaps the online dating thing. But it's difficult to determine the future effects of me reading your advice. Thanks again.
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