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The Old and Overgrown DOC thread (fixed)

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^ Yeah, the fluoro group is small enough to not stearically hinder the active site of MAO (unlike Cl, Br & I), so 2C-F is most probably subject to metabolic degredation before it has a chance to reach the brain (a bit like 2,4,5-TMPEA). Tagging an alpha-methyl group on to prevent MAO chewing it up had chance to produce an active drug - not a clue as to the dosage levels though

Characterized by not caused by.

Theve stuffed people with severe ADHD into NMR machines (both with and without ADHD medication) after having a radioactive tracer injected and seen the increase in activity of the dopaminergic reward pathways to levels seen in normal subjects after medication that were much less active before. That seems pretty good evidence to me.

How they kept them still in the before scans is beyond me though (probably lots of tight leather straps!)
 
to all these people eyebaling DOC, DOI, DOM, etc... ONE of you will die... and it wont be at all pleasant. If u can afford the drugs u can afford the scales. Dont die and screw it up for other RC uses. Hell Eyeballing 3mg is damn near immpossible...

I aint worht either the overdose trip or the bother your family goes through when your getting buried. Get .00mg scales...
 
GreenBarts said:
shut the fuck up or catch an uppercut.

You should realize you're on the wrong forum if you think that NOT measuring the amounts you ingest is an okay thing to do, IT IS FUCKING STUPID and I agree that sometime someone probably WILL fuck up if they continue to do so, it just might be you. If you know what's good for you, DON'T eyeball your dosages.

And by the by, this is the internet, not real life.. Threatening to uppercut someone on the internet is probably one of the least intelligent things to say, but I don't think anyone expected something like that from you anyways.
 
A friend of mine recently tried out 8mg and said he had the best trip and when he relaxed as in mentally he was extremely relaxed. It's almost as if the relaxing aspect he could "control" he said. He also didn't feel in any danger at any time he said.
 
I finally had a chance to try this stuff on friday. I took 2mg at around 7:45pm. It took probably 3 hours to really kick in. The time dilation on come-up was so extreme I felt like I had pretty much peaked at an hour and a half.. it didn't seem like I was getting any higher... just a spaced-out feeling and a bit of mild stimulation.

Then at about 3 hours or so, I was totally smashed. I went to take a shower (we have a crappy bathtub/shower combo thing), and stood in the shower with the water running for probably 15 minutes... but I wasn't getting wet. I couldn't understand wtf was going on. I had my clothes off, I was in the shower, I knew the water was runnng.. but I was not getting wet. I walked from one side to the other a few times... no change. I finally figured out that the water was coming out of the faucet and not the shower head. That was kind of wierd.

The visual element was particularly striking. I remember looking down at the tile floor.. all of the grid lines were prefectly straight. My shoes, the dog's food bowl, some clothes.. they all looked perfect normal. But the patterning on the floor itself was very rapidly shifting, squirting back and forth between all of the different tiles in a very fluid manner. Kind of like the way milk looks when you pour it into coffee or water.

Sometimes, for a brief moment, I'd feel strangely sober. I'd stare at something, and nothing would happen. And then all of the sudden whatever I was looking at would explode into a kaleidoscope of colors and shapes. Very fluid and organic.

I did seem to get some negative side effects. After 4 hours or so, I started having rapid muscle spasms in my thighs. At first it just felt kind of wierd. This happens to me on mushrooms. After a while it became seriously annoying, though it did stop a couple hours later.

The stuff also wrecked my stomach for a couple hours after it really started kicking in. It felt like I had terrible indigestion. To be fair though, I had eaten a ton of greasy french fries about 45min before dosing (I decided not to dose, then changed my mind). That was probably my own fault. Antacids did not help. Pot helped a bit.

Normally smoking nugget when I'm tripping turns things up a few notches, but this time it didn't seem to have as big an impact. I did get more spaced out, and the visual effects became stronger, but not significant so (after 3 puffs or so).

At about the 8th hour, I could tell things were beginning the gradual decline. It was closer to the 12 hour mark before I was really beginning to sober up, and I wasn't totally baseline until about 24 hours post dose. There was then another 12 hours or so where I could not sleep at all, and some halfway delerious from exhaustion. Over the course of a couple of hours I took 2mg xanax (0.5mg every 30 min), and 5mg valium. This did not put me to sleep, but turned me into a total zombie. It was a pleasant stupor, but I really wanted to sleep.

I didn't really eat anything saturday or duing the trip aside from a couple of ales and some crackers. There wasn't an anorexic effect like with speed, but I wasn't really hungry either, even though it was clear I needed to eat.

I spent most of today laying around recovering, and after eating a bunch of pizza few hours ago and walking around oustide a bit I feel much more rejuvinated.

My muscles are kind of sore, though.. especially my neck.

This was a fantastic drug, and relatively clear headed. It will be hard to find the time for it though. I'd recommend having a whole weekend free to try it.

I may be a bit sensitive to it. I seem to have gotten more effect from 2mg than a lot of people, and I am certain I took 2mg.
 
the dose range is 1-3 mg. i notice alot of people are taking double or triple this amount. why? do you need more than suggested? because on other rc's like 2ce or amt people hardly ever do a strong dose let alone doubleing the recommended dose. why is DOC different when it comes to doing the suggested dose.? people usually follow shulgins dose range but on DOC it seems as though people are ignoring his dose advice. any answers?
 
I don't know, unless people are losing a lot of product when trying to dissolve it into water and meter out doses, getting impure product, or some kind of tolerance or something.

I had planned on passing this out to friends, but now I'm not so sure. The possibility for a total trainwreck disaster is pretty high, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I had a fantastic experience and will do the stuff a number of times in the future...

But if I had taken, say, 4-6mg or so (on purpose or accidentally), it could have been nasty. Its not just that the stuff is long acting...but its fucking strong for a very long time.

I've taken things that lasted pretty long before, but they all had really slow and drawn out come-up/come-down phases. On this stuff, I was really fucked up for the better part of a day.
 
illusion25 said:
the dose range is 1-3 mg. i notice alot of people are taking double or triple this amount. why? do you need more than suggested? because on other rc's like 2ce or amt people hardly ever do a strong dose let alone doubleing the recommended dose. why is DOC different when it comes to doing the suggested dose.? people usually follow shulgins dose range but on DOC it seems as though people are ignoring his dose advice. any answers?

cuz

a. it's not as pure
b. shulgin's experience is outdated
c. i have done 8mgs at once on two separate occasions... it's not bad at all infact i recommend it for people with stable minds.
 
Well, look at 2c-c...Shulgin recommends 20-40mg, and many people barely even get responses in that range, while others seem to get pretty far gone. DOC may be just as variable in response.
 
The idea is to use Shulgins dose as a relative measure for safety.

Yet, just in case, start at half the maximum dose for a first time. Otherwise you may be one of those 'few' people that are sensitive to the particular compound.

Though in my experience, DOC is a pretty unpredictable compound. A friend had 5mg however and foud it by and by much too intense. He is not sensitive to psychedelics and likes his ego crushing experiences at 400mc of LSD. :) Yet a friend who usually responds pretty normally to LSD found he didn't feel ANYTHING on 3mg of DOC. Yet all of us having 2mg found we could have tried that little bit more, perhaps 2.5 or even 3.

Though 3mg of DOB is too much for me or most of the people I have spoken to.

It could be set and setting, it could be the quality of the product.
 
illusion25 said:
the dose range is 1-3 mg. i notice alot of people are taking double or triple this amount. why? do you need more than suggested? because on other rc's like 2ce or amt people hardly ever do a strong dose let alone doubleing the recommended dose.
actually I think there are plenty of examples on this board of people taking way over the recommended dosages of all kinds of substances including 2C-E and AMT.

reasons?:

Some people here are tripping really frequently and have built up tolerance.

Some people here use SSRIs, GHB/GBL, tranqs, opiates, ADD drugs and other substances which effect their tolerance and perception of tolerance.

Some people seem to think that the optimum dose is the one which gets them the "most %@#&ed up" without actually harming them. This was not Shulgin's intention at all in developing recommended doses.

Shulgin and his research group tended to be rather more mature, physically and mentally, than most here. They may tend to prefer sipping their cocktail rather than chugging the bottle.
 
maxX said:
cuz

a. it's not as pure
b. shulgin's experience is outdated
c. i have done 8mgs at once on two separate occasions... it's not bad at all infact i recommend it for people with stable minds.

Dunno about letters "a" and "b" there... any DOC I've seen has been very pure looking, clear crystals, and there's no reason based on anybody's reaction to think we're working with impure product anymore.

In other words, I think everyone who got 2C-I as DOC way back when has got that figured out by now.

....

Fizzacyst, thanks for your input!

I have to agree with you that your upset stomach was probably thanks to the greasy food you ate 30 minutes before. That seems to be the main factor determining if people get nauseous or not. Personally in my three experiments with DOC, I actually *tried* to get nauseous the second two times (after hearing that some people get this side effect) but it wasn't to be. But I would also probably wait for any significant food to digest before taking anything like DOC.

That probably had something to do with your delayed onset too.

Muscle spasms... hmm, interesting. I get those sometimes on small doses of amphetamines that I take once in a while. Sometimes a little agressive self-massage is all it takes to get rid of that one :)

I'm surprised it took so many benzos, so long after you tripped, to not even pass you out! DOC definitely gives you a lingering energy which is noticeable into the 24 hour mark... but in a way I almost find this energy relaxing, like it barely qualifies as "energy" at all. Good thing you had a weekend to put aside for this one. And I'd agree, people should probably eat this one on a Friday or Saturday rather than a Sunday if they have anything really important to do on Monday ;)

You seemed to think that trip could have got sloppy if you doubled the dose. I disagree... based on my observations people simply seem to have a hard time flipping out on DOC! The 4mg trip and the 2mg trip are very different... there's just a lot more unique DOC-phenomena (spirals, time warps, balls of energy in the air, etc..) going on at the higher doses.

I personally found my 4mg trip no harder on my body or mind than my 2mg trip, although it would have been harder to give a guest lecture on quantum physics on 4mg because of all the distractions floating around.

The highest I know of anybody eating first-hand is 6mg (but I've heard of larger doses taken on message boards like this) and I've yet to see anybody flip out. I took 6mg in split doses of 2mg, each on an hour apart, and it was weaker than the 4mg all-at-once trip, so I don't consider that a real trial. All it says is that acute DOC seems to exist.

....

So far it seems that higher doses make it more likely for your stomach to get upset for those whose stomachs actually notice the presence of this chemical.

Anyway, sounds like you had fun with 2mg. I sure did my first time. But now after trying 4mg I consider that very much "do-able" and easier to handle than I might have expected, and there's so much more psychedelia and weird stuff going on at 4mg, I'll probably eat 4mg again next time (to test for consistency) before eventually, when I got time for all this extended tripping, exploring higher doses.

I mean, those spirals obviously are meant to take us somewhere! =D
 
In retrospect, I think I would have been a bit alarmed if I'd taken twice as much, but I would have been ok. This stuff is remarkably clear-headed to me. I mean, I still get all spaced out like I do on any other psychedelic, but this was quite managable (compared to, say, LSD or mushrooms).

The main reason I'm concerned for the general drug using population as far as taking a bit too much is not so much a fear of extreme intensity making them flip out, so much as the duration (and the length of the plateau). If you get a few hours into it and decide its too much and want out... well, you're fucked. On the other hand, duration aside, I think I'd rather take too much of this instead of too much acid. I think I could handle the mental portion much better. It was all very positive, aside from when it was first really starting... and thats probably just because I get a bit nervous pretty much all the time when a trip is starting until I get a feel for how messed up I'm going to be. I'm quite anxious sometimes when taking a new drug as well.

I really don't know how to describe the mind state on this substance. I really was both clearheaded and very spaced out at the same time. I remember sitting in front of my computer, trying select and queue up different music (the Ocelot and Kindzadza was brainfucking me), and it was so difficult to work anything, or figure out what I wanted to listen to, or to sort through the various styles of music. Yet at the same time, my girlfriend was asking me all kinds of questions and telling me about various things that went on when she went to see her family on thinksgiving. I was responding to all of her questions and tracking the conversation extremely well. I don't know how I was doing this. I'd just open my mouth and the right things would come out, seemingly without thinking about any of it. Then a few minutes later, it was a major task to open and properly pour a bottle of beer.

As far as the benzos, I take xanax as needed for anxiety. 0.5-1.0mg here and there. sometimes everyday for a few days, then every other day, then everyday, then 3 days or week-week and a half without needing it, etc. So there is probably a little bit of tolerance. It can't be a lot though, as 0.5mg makes me very sleepy/tired.

I probably described the stimulation after the primary effects were wearing off poorly. It wasn't so much a stimulation as a wakeful state. Oddly, during most of the trip, even with this wakefulness/stimulation, I was actually very lazy. I did a lot of laying around staring. It would take a lot of will to actually get up and walk around sometimes. Though when I did, I wouldn't feel so sedated (this is way before the xanax).

I'm going to see how a friend responds to 2.5-3.0mg this weekend, or whenever he gets around to taking it, and use the two experiences to decide on a dose for my next trip. If that goes well, I'll probably go for 3.0-4.0mg and plan a little better as far as food and stuff to do.

I'm looking forward to it, since that first trip anxiety won't be there, and I have a much better idea of whats going on.
 
any DOC I've seen has been very pure looking, clear crystals, and there's no reason based on anybody's reaction to think we're working with impure product anymore

You do realize that just by looking at a product, no matter how clear it looks, you have no way of verifying if it is pure, do you? And the dosage range is a bit strange, a bit wide, don't you think?

I don't think you can say that everyone is working with the same pure product without any verification. It's just making wild guesses.
 
^^
Actually I don't really find the dose range all that strange. It's similar to the DOI dose-range (some people like 10mg+) and similar to LSD in terms of the dose/effect curve (but we don't know where DOC becomes possibly dangerous or fully saturated in terms of the experience yet).

I have no reason to believe my supplier lies about purity. I should presume most people with access to DOC at this point aren't getting anything different.

I mean, most people get a light "trip" off 1mg and can go up to 6mg+ without flipping out or having problems, so... sounds good to me!

...

Anyway I firmly believe the dose range is part of the nature of this chemical... not having to do with potentially impure product (which I have good reason to believe doesn't really exist, at least right now).
 
What can i say? i like getting smashed. 12mg was highest dose..i'm going for 15mg next, then 18, then 20...
With 2C-C i took 60mgs and wish i had eaten 80mgs...

DOC has a very annoying half-life where the trip is pretty much over, but you're all stimulated and awake for hours and hours more...this is where benzos and some seroquel will do perfectly...fuck, i'll just keep some Midazolam on hand.

I would always wait at least 2 weeks between tripping, cept for one time, to eliminate tolerance issues. the only prescribed drug i take is seroquel, and it has an amazingly short halflife..i would simply cease to take it for 2 days prior, so that wouldnt effect the trip...then i'd eat around 10mg or so..and STILL, wanted to trip harder...im a looney, ok?

Opiods when the trip is winding down is nice..cause the stimulation turns into a focused nod, that you can channel some great creativity/relaxation towards.

My DOC had been analyzed in a lab for purity, and not by the vendor.
 
Dayumn, nigga! That's hardcore! You're probably gonna get another round of threads telling you how stupid you are for doing this or that, blah blah blah... I say *kudos* to you good sir for having the balls to semi-safely expand the known boundaries of this stuff. A safe dosagel at 4X the recommended level seems to indicate a low toxicity of DOC or developed tolerance in your particular case. If more people are similar to you (I'm sure we will find out in the coming months), this chemical could be relatively safe. People build immunity to amphetamines, again, let's reinforce that. Would other negative effects such as addiction and amphetamine psychosis be a factor with continued use of this RC?
 
The recent DOC batch (at least the one I have seen) is certainly not in question,very pure stuff!
 
21p said:
Dayumn, nigga! That's hardcore! You're probably gonna get another round of threads telling you how stupid you are for doing this or that, blah blah blah... I say *kudos* to you good sir for having the balls to semi-safely expand the known boundaries of this stuff. A safe dosagel at 4X the recommended level seems to indicate a low toxicity of DOC or developed tolerance in your particular case. If more people are similar to you (I'm sure we will find out in the coming months), this chemical could be relatively safe. People build immunity to amphetamines, again, let's reinforce that. Would other negative effects such as addiction and amphetamine psychosis be a factor with continued use of this RC?
i can't say for sure if it has a low toxicity level.. For whenever i did the heavy trips, i would puke my guts out on the come up, then start tripping immediately..like on shrooms. The fact that it makes me violently puke everytime at this level makes me suspicious of it's toxicity actually.
 
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