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The Old and Overgrown DOC thread (fixed)

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yaesutom said:
i'm really suprised so far no one else on the internet has reported this.. ?
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Perhaps your underestimating the power of your suggestion to them? I mean tripping is all about the mind.
 
^^
Nah man, loops/spirals/"torados" and things like yaesutom quoted above are a core element of a medium/high dose DOC trip.

To think that the power of suggestion plays any role in this seems really absurd while witnessing these various phenomena which seem unique to DOC. Check out my trip report, in which I took LSD > DOC ... my friend and I did a lot of tests with the idea of the power of suggestion and found that we were experiencing the same exact phenomena during both our LSD and DOC parts of the trip.

My only point is, there's more to it than the power of suggestion. Especially if nothing's even been suggested in the first place. The way I see it we've stumbled upon a "new" chemical which works in a fairly specific -- though easily directable at the same time -- way on just about everybody that takes it.
 
Power of suggestion, placebo, etc. plays an enourmous role with all psychedelic drugs. If there is no power of suggestion with the effects of DOC then it wouldn't be much of a psychedelic, AFAIC.
 
There 'is' a power of suggestion, there always will be one present at different levels involving different psychoactive substances.

But what hes saying is that there definitely IS much more to it than 'just' that.
 
^^^^

Power of suggestion wouldn't work at all if he didn't actually believe is was more than "just" that. Its the belief its self that is the suggestion.

Back in the 60's people took LSD and they thought it was the answer to the worlds problems. They wanted to dope the water supplies because they thought it would bring world peace. It really just got to people's egos. I've seen the same thing with nearly every good psychedelic drug to at least some extent. Someone takes it, it gets inside their head, and they think drug is more than what it is.
 
bluedolphin said:
I found the psychedelic effects of DOC to far outlive any amphetamine-like effects (which were barely noticeable for me, I actually slept through part of the DOC trip!)
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So far everyone I've talked to has mentioned 10+ hours of restlessness and an inability to sleep after taking DOC. The concensus is that DOC lasts 10-12 hours, with lingering effects up to 24 hours.

Remember that DOC is 2,5-dimethoxy-4-chloro-amphetamine.

I guess everyone is different but I would say that your experience (with no amphetamine like effects) is highly out of the ordinary.

Great report though :)
 
I guess everyone is different but I would say that your experience (with no amphetamine like effects) is highly out of the ordinary.
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I believe he's pre-loading with benzos, and taking something else to get to sleep every night.
 
^^^
When you assume you know what happens... except I would have mentioned benzos in my report if I had taken any before, during, or after my LSD > DOC trip. They weren't needed at all.

I fell into a trance-like sleep about 8-9 hours after ingesting ~4mg DOC. I woke up (or regained consciousness) and looked at the clock and 6 hours had passed in what felt like the blink of an eye.

I happen to find DOC very relaxing. I was far from restless... in fact, extraordinarily relaxed. The psychedelic effects lingered for about a full day, but they weren't accompanied by any restlessness or extra energy.

I just felt refreshed (and still tripping) when I "woke" from my brief trance-sleep.

Then I had a real good sleep the next day and woke up with a great afterglow.

Sorry if DOC doesn't seem to have any negative effects on me ;)

........

As for the role power of suggestion plays in psychedelic experiences, well, I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I've seen way too much overwhelming proof that the power of suggestion is only one of many factors which determine your experience. If you think the power of suggestion really is all that important, maybe you could go for a 500mic LSD trip to remind you otherwise...
 
That is very interesting and also quite possible. For example some people's brains work differently, why do you think they give ADD people speed? And why do you think this speed has the opposite effect of what you would expect?

It could be that your brain is wired differently than normal, that's all. :)
 
FlameMan said:
That is very interesting and also quite possible. For example some people's brains work differently, why do you think they give ADD people speed? And why do you think this speed has the opposite effect of what you would expect?

It could be that your brain is wired differently than normal, that's all. :)
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That's possible. Or it could be your brain is wired differently from normal, because I've seen plenty of people eat DOC and seem very relaxed doing so. I have also seen a couple people seem to have a bit of extra energy but no more than an adderall might do to you.

Based on my observations you seem to be in the minority... although your reaction does seem possible for some people who might react strongly to amphetamines in general.

Personally I was surprised to find my heart rate not even slightly elevated on top of 4mg DOC. On 2mg of DOC it was elevated slightly, maybe 20% at the most.

Also, I noticed that what very little (barely noticeable) muscle tension I had from the LSD actually seemed to deminish as the DOC took hold. Overall I found them equally easy on the body... some of the lightest body loads of any psychedelics I've tried.
 
Acute Tolerance with DOC

Acute tolerance with DOC seems to work similarly to LSD.

I have tried DOC three times so far:

#1-- 2mg ... medium +++
#2 -- 2mg + 2mg + 2mg (spaced a few hours apart) ... medium/strong +++
#3 -- 4mg ... strong +++

make of it what you will.
 
crOOk said:
Ha, thought of that combination today... Good dose of DOC, some Methylone 5 hours into it and a K hole dose after another 4 hours... Should be fun, sleep should come easily with the aid of K.

crOOk
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Don't bet on it ;)
 
If you think the power of suggestion really is all that important, maybe you could go for a 500mic LSD trip to remind you otherwise...
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I've tripped that intensly numerous times. Power of suggestion is almost everything. Psychedelic drugs are mirrors. The vast majority of what one sees in them is not an attribute of the mirror but an attribute of what is in front of it the mirror. One just doesn't have any ego control over the suggestibility at high doses. But it is still the mind, the deep recesses of the subconscious, that generates the suggestibility.

And in fact I see many people use psychedelics for years and not realize this. They attribute too much of the experience to the drug and not to themselves. They say for example that these drugs are entheogens, meaning "generating god within". Generating? Generating god? No, these drugs do not generate god (or any other realization) within you, god (or any other realization) is already within you. The drugs just wake you up to it, for a while.

So IOW, IMHO, whatever lasting "insights" you get from DOC are not properties of DOC. They are properties of your mind and wisdom. Thats why others will take it and not have such "insights".
 
gloggawogga said:
I've tripped that intensly numerous times. Power of suggestion is almost everything. Psychedelic drugs are mirrors. The vast majority of what one sees in them is not an attribute of the mirror but an attribute of what is in front of it the mirror. One just doesn't have any ego control over the suggestibility at high doses. But it is still the mind, the deep recesses of the subconscious, that generates the suggestibility.

And in fact I see many people use psychedelics for years and not realize this. They attribute too much of the experience to the drug and not to themselves. They say for example that these drugs are entheogens, meaning "generating god within". Generating? Generating god? No, these drugs do not generate god (or any other realization) within you, god (or any other realization) is already within you. The drugs just wake you up to it, for a while.

So IOW, IMHO, whatever lasting "insights" you get from DOC are not properties of DOC. They are properties of your mind and wisdom. Thats why others will take it and not have such "insights".
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Well said gloggawogga. I've really been having trouble trying to define ego lately (maybe you can shead some light on this). It all started when reading some of the threads about ego death. I really started to wonder what is the ego. Really, plain and simple, what is the ego. It seems to me that the ego "suspention" (rather than death) that happens on psychedelics could help one live outside of the direct influence of the ego. It seems that that would be the only way to use the ego as a tool (for filtering or registering and experiencing personal phenomena). Otherwise it is a limiter. But I still cannot satisfactorally define the damned EGO.
 
gloggawogga said:
Psychedelic drugs are mirrors. The vast majority of what one sees in them is not an attribute of the mirror but an attribute of what is in front of it the mirror. One just doesn't have any ego control over the suggestibility at high doses. But it is still the mind, the deep recesses of the subconscious, that generates the suggestibility.

And in fact I see many people use psychedelics for years and not realize this. They attribute too much of the experience to the drug and not to themselves. They say for example that these drugs are entheogens, meaning "generating god within". Generating? Generating god? No, these drugs do not generate god (or any other realization) within you, god (or any other realization) is already within you. The drugs just wake you up to it, for a while..
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Who said anything about drugs generating god? I also think drugs wake you up to what's already there for a while (some drugs,... some do the complete opposite) -- but with some of the better psychedelics there's a lot more to it than that.

Might as well keep to the topic of DOC rather than making broad and highly debateable claims about the nature of all psychedelics...
 
Again^^ well said Glogg.

It's like an Oreal Cookie, most folks can only see the dark exterior of the cookie. While the few, can see within the inner white core of the universe.
 
Spirals

My buddy and I recently tripped on DOC @ 4mg and noticed a lot of "spirals".

Some of these were suspended in the air. Some of them were overlaid on other objects. Most were three dimensional.

Another Bluelighter told me of a story, after agreeing that these spirals were prevelent in his DOC experiences as well, of a girl who ate enough DOC to enter one of these spirals, at which point time stopped completely.

So I'm curious who else has seen these spirals or has experienced stoppage of time on DOC...
 
(some drugs,... some do the complete opposite) I also think drugs wake you up to what's already there for a while
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Right. But "what's already there" is subjective and different for every person, and thus we get a wide range of experiences with psychedelics drugs. Every person's "set" is everything that they have in their mind, which is ultimately everything they have in their life experience up to that point in time. What's "already there" for you on DOC isn't necessarily what's gonna be "already there" when someone else takes it, even if you take it in the same setting.

Might as well keep to the topic of DOC rather than making broad and highly debateable claims about the nature of all psychedelics...
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I didn't know it was debatable that people have a wide range of subjective experiences on psychedelics dependant on the set and setting, and I think it is relevant to harm reduction to keep that in mind when discussing the effects of this drug on people.

But certainly lets not you and I argue in this thread. Lets just respectfully disagree with each other :)
 
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