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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

The GHB/GBL Addiction & Withdrawal Thread: mk. II

I don't know if having a high tolerance makes you immune to getting in trouble with this shit though. I'd say probably not. I'm not saying enjoying G is a one way road, but it was for me. A long road, with a long time of safe enjoyment and some really good times.

That said, my last 'poor me, in bed all day' post has spurred me out of bed and off to wilkos, going to finally paint my living room. In a ghb enhanced state, but still. Catch you guys later
 
If my ghb enhanced state causes me to splatter my mxe inspired tv i'll have to have a lot of booze and benzos to calm down.
 
Oh, no I wasn't suggesting I'm immune at all. I will take a few days break from the stuff (which is easier said than done, because it is so fucking great =D, so it'll be a challenge). And I'll stop trying to use it for sleep, that sounds like a bad idea.

I miss Wilkinsons. At first I thought it only existed in the Conny, but then I found one in the St John's Centre. None in Scotland to my knowledge. Decent budget household store.
 
knock said:
And I'll stop trying to use it for sleep, that sounds like a bad idea.
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Definitely do this (or if not then keep it as a very occassional thing. Sleep was amazing when I first started taking it, but it gets to the stage where it is horrible and is essentially a matter of knocking yourself out for 3 hours at a time, waking up with a jolt feeling awful and repeating in the hopes that you'll feel slightly more normal next time (and in my case that I'll feel together enough to make it through another day at work).

Don't let it get to that stage...
 
It's a fucked up withdrawal knock. Be careful. GBL is one sneaky drug. It makes everything in life better, it's not toxic, so while you're consuming it everything seems fine and dandy. One day you'll find your heart racing between doses and your hands shaking. Then your stash runs out, you slip into delirium where you're too delusional and psychotic to help yourself, and that's one fucking nightmare. It's hell on earth.

If you do happen to fall into withdrawal. Make sure you have benzodiazepines, baclofen, and most importantly, pregabalin or gabapentin to halt excitotoxicity and apoptosis. Otherwise you're in for some nerve and brain damage, seizures, and delirium tremens.
 
^ Whilst I agree with this in a general sense I don't believe for one second this is inevitible. Personally, I've always found the rapid taper to be the answer to GBL w/d. If I have any given amount I will hammer it 24/7 until it's gone - usually for months at a stretch - but once I'm down to my last 20, 30, 40ml or whatever I get my arse in gear and taper. I've never once had problem in tapering GBL (alone - not talking about in conjunction with benzos and/or other GABA-bashers - or indeed any other drugs). Just knock off 0.1ml per dose (or every other dose, or every third, fourth, fifth or whatever suits, dose) and it's easily done. Usually takes me 2-3 days of concerted effort and I've never once had a single w/d symptom this way. It's entirely possible I'm an exception to the rule but I kinda doubt I'm that special.

Am kinda wary of saying that in the addiction thread but I simply cannot see how anybody can be "more" addicted then me when I'm on the geeb. If I have geeb I usually get through 30ml or so per day and take no breaks. The one thing I have noticed I seem to do differently to some geebee folk is that I never use it to sleep. KO doses are the devil with GBL. Whether to sleep or recreational or any reason whatsoever. If you KO yourself more than once in a blue moon you will likely get w/d symptoms if using daily. If you don't you won't.

(imo, ime, ymmv, etc, etc)

WithMyLife said:
I went to see a drug counsellor yesterday. A "key worker". I know from other threads that they must see people in some REALLY bad situations, and I felt like a time waster. She didn't make me feel like one though.... Talking to her made me wonder how the cause/effect relationship between my social isolation and drug use might be not entirely one sided. I always see it as "i don't have friends because they'd find out the truth about me" but it perhaps it is more complicated than that.
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Yup. It's always more complicated than that unfortunately. If this shit was easy there wouldn't be people like us would there? ;)

Congrats on seeing a drug counsellor/key worker/whatever. I've been seeing mine for getting on for 20 years now. Obviously it hasn't stopped me using drugs but it has kept me just this side of the abyss. You need to find one you click with but if/when you do they are a lifesaver. Stick with it. There is zero shame in seeking help - quite the opposite cos it's a sign of progress :)

Only thing I'd suggest is to not go in purely for the script. The script will come when it's good an ready. It's not just the script that such services can provide though. Yes they do see people in REALLY bad situation, but they also see people in not quite so bad situations. Kinda like Yellow Pages, they're not just there for the bad times ;)

Good luck and stick with it :)<3
 
You can easily slip into delirium. I think you are truly the exception to the rule. Tapering with alcohol or GHB is never ideal due to the short half-life, and inconsistency of potency between batch and batch. It's also sometimes out of a users hands when it comes to availability.

I used about 2-3ml every hour 16-18 hours a day for 6-8 months. The first time I had mild psychosis, tremors, seizures, anxiety, depression, and insomnia. Due to the nature of kindling, a process in which inhibitory/excitory neuroadaption malfunctions, withdrawals become worst as they repeat. This applies to every gabaergic drug.

My second time around I missed a dose, started shaking so bad that when I grabbed the bottle of GHB I spilled it all over the floor, slipped into delirium, seizures, panic attacks, hypertension, photophobia etc. Luckily my friend was around to call the ambulance.

I was in for 1 week until the psychosis completely subsided. Instead of being given pregabalin/gabapentin which would completely erase the withdrawals, I was continuously pumped with anti-psychotics which would worsen most of the symptoms, especially the psychosis. It was a nightmare. Truly hell on earth.

I should also note that I was also hemmoraging when I was first admitted. This could be completely unrelated to my consistent GHB use but I thought I'd throw it out there.
 
Ive had a few wds where ive had nothing to east them, due to a delivery fuck up and it was only for 3 days, delirium is a cunt i thought i was on deadliest catch and had 3 pots with lobsters/scorpions/crabs in them, started checking my shoes for them, its fucking nasty/insane x/
 
I came very close recently with all my phenibut malarkay but thankfully things worked out. Just. One day later and I would've been utterly screwed though :|

That was kinda different cos was phenibut (ie legal, next day delivery etc) but was the geebee I was needing. Fairies are not so much thanked as worshipped around Chez Sham <3

When it comes to GBL though, if I assume my ease of rapid taper is not unique to me then I see no reason why anybody else's should be really. If you are nearing the end of a bottle then taper to nothing over the last couple days even if you are expecting a re-up. Common sense really given it needs to get through customs and shit so is always at some risk of not arriving.

Just to make clear, I am not saying this in a sneery, derogotary, "I know best" sense at all. I'm sure it could be read that way but it ain't that way. Is looking after #1 is all. Running low on geeb? Taper, taper, taper. I've squeezed a full-on taper from 30ml-odd/day down to nothing in 36h a number of times. That's about as hairy as I'd dare but is definitely doable.

I've said this before and people have said they just can't taper. I call bullshit. You will not go into w/d if you drop by 0.1ml. You just won't. GBL is short-acting so you can keep dropping those 0.1ml (or even more if needs be) pretty frikkin rapidly as long as you accept you ain't gonna get high at any stage of the taper. It's a taper. It ain't mean to be fun. But it also ain't (physically) hard. I'm an utter pussy (okay, Marmz, point taken ;)<3) when it comes to w/d so if I can do it... Y'all can too. Staying away is a whole other matter but quitting should not be a problem if you are able to keep track of how much you're taking. (I realise this is not possible in all situations but I suspect it is for most)
 
If I drop my dose between doses though I begin to feel symptoms. Heavy symptoms. And they don't subside even for days until I bring my dose back up.
 
Obviously you're gonna feel some symptoms cos you're tapering. I really do struggle to see how dropping 0.1ml is gonna make life unbearable but if it is then drop 0.05ml. Or 0.025ml.

However, you are not the first person to tell me that they find tapering impossible. This intrigues me greatly. Obviously it's possible it's summat unique to me (or at least pretty rare and I happen to be in that group) but this seems pretty unlikely to me. I've been a flat-out addict - physicalal addictions rather than mental ones - for pretty much anything it's possible to be addicted to. For years on end mostly. In the case of GBL I used more or less constantly, more or less daily for several years but could always do a rapid taper to quit if needs be.

I have zero willpower and usually no real desire to quit beyond the terror of facing w/d. Seems to me I should have exactly the same problems anybody else has. Hence my confuzzlement :?

Once again, I am absolutely not meaning this in any kinda bad way (believe me I know what addiction is like :|) so would be fascinated to discover what differences there may be...

How much do you take? Has your dose crept up over time? How many times do you need to dose a day? How many days at a stretch? Do you ever KO yourself whether deliberately or accidentally? Do you need to dose to get through the night? What (specifically) prevents you from sticking to a taper - however slow and gradual it needs to be?
 
Hey man, you're not coming off like anything. It's not that I don't believe you or that it can't be done, it's actually healthy to taper. I just don't have the self-restraint plus it simply doesn't work for me. If I reach a dose dropping becomes impossible. Then again I've never tried to taper with a dosage as small as you mentioned.

My sleep patterns are fucked. I wake up at night sweating with my heart beating out of chest. Pretty much after 3-4 hours of my nightly KO dose. The first thing I do is reach for the GHB. I'm almost immobile until it hits me. My muscles become hypertonic, and I become almost paralyzed.

Thankfully I have pregabalin so I can take breaks whenever I want with zero withdrawal symptoms. All my experiences with DT's are before I had access to pregabalin.

Truth is when one is withdrawing from a heavy GBL habit they at times completely resistant to benzodiazepines since they operate on GABA-A where as GBL operates on GABA-B.

The recommended treatment is an anticonvulsant such as pregabalin or gabapentin to handle the apoptosis and excitoxicity, and baclofen which like GBL, operates on the GABA-B receptors and can be tapered safely in a medical setting.

GBL/GHB should be treated with respect and considered completely identical to alcohol withdrawal.
 
baooozs said:
Hey man, you're not coming off like anything. It's not that I don't believe you or that it can't be done, it's actually healthy to taper. I just don't have the self-restraint plus it simply doesn't work for me. If I reach a dose dropping becomes impossible. Then again I've never tried to taper with a dosage as small as you mentioned.

My sleep patterns are fucked. I wake up at night sweating with my heart beating out of chest. Pretty much after 3-4 hours of my nightly KO dose. The first thing I do is reach for the GHB. I'm almost immobile until it hits me. My muscles become hypertonic, and I become almost paralyzed.
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Hehe. Just me being kinda paranoid is all (I blame the drugs :!) cos I know how irritating it can be when somebody comes along and says they have no problem dealing with this, that or t'other addiction so wanted to make very clear that was not my angle.

The second paragraph is the one that leaps out at me in big, flashing, neon lights. KO dose. Therein lies your problem, I'd say. It's the one and only constant I've found after many years of GBL/GHB abuse. If you take KO doses - even one - you get severe w/d symptoms. If you stay below KO levels there's no such problem.

My recommendation, fwiw, to you and any others in similar situation is to try the taper method and - most importantly - never, ever take KO doses unless you have enough to taper with afterwards. I've never used GHB to taper cos mostly use GBL but the advice would be the same only you could get away with bigger drops and/or spread it over more days. But for GBL, dropping 0.1ml should cause zero discomfort. Won't KO you. Won't even get you fukked. Will feel kinda meh. But you won't be in withdrawal. Rinse, repeat. As rapidly or as gradually as suits you needs.

I've found precious little help comes from booze, benzos, baclofen or pregbalin for me but everybody is different so go with whatever works. If nothing works, tapering really does. Promise. Drop 0.1ml per dose or every other dose or every third dose or whatever you can cope with. It's never taken me more than 72h to be completely clear with no w/d symptoms whatsoever.

And, for the record, I do know what GBL w/d feels like cos have had 'em many times when trying to push too hard. Doesn't work. At least not for me. Cos those kinda w/d are just plain scary and, frankly, dangerous. Is not summat anybody should approach lightly and should always be done under medical supervision if you're lucky enough to have a doctor who has any clue what you're talking about when explaining the problem. If medical assistance is not an option for whatever reason (it isn't for anybody I know cos docs here have no fukkin clue what GBL is) then it can be tackled alone. Just requires extreme caution and sticking rigidly to the taper. Pause the taper as often as you need but never up the dose once tapering unless you wanna start from scratch.

Good luck to all struggling with addiction. It's doable it really is <3
 
Seems like lofexidine is another effective medication for withdrawal. Coupled with phenibut/baclofen, anyone could quit this horrendous addiction. Lofexidine stops adrenaline being released, which is mainly what causes the physical withdrawal symptoms. Pretty decent drug, and it has the habit of just sending you to sleep. You have to watch your blood pressure, if you take higher doses, because it can cause you to faint, etc. So, baclofen, phenibut, propranolol, benzos, lofexidine, and booze can all help. Not all at the same time, obviously, because that spells death.
 
Been on a GBL binge this weekend, 24/7 since yesterday when I got home. Got through 17ml since last night. Something went wrong with the GHB I made -- I think it's either impure GBL or I added too much, but it's nasty shit. Just makes me feel really sick, and makes my fingers go purple.

Whenever I took it to sleep I'd have really vivid and intense nightmares. Or more than nightmares -- one of them was in the house, and it turns out I did some of the stuff in my nightmare. Sleepwalking? Nothing bad, but glad I didn't have a nightmare about leaving the house.

I'm in for a rough comedown now, as I've run out of etiz. Still, better to get it over with now than on Monday morning. The guy above me at work has quit right at the end of a product release, so I now have a team of 12 to look after. I've got to figure out what's going on with everyone and what he was doing without him there to hand over anything. The stress is almost unbearable, since it seems we've bungled this release and will have to delay it by about a week. I've gone from thinking "I can't handle this any more" about the G use to "this is the only way I can handle this" about work stress. No good.
 
Did you pH test your GHB? It should be nearly neutral (6-8ish). As for turning your fingers purple, that's very weird. Sounds like you've made a proper mistake there. You might be able to salvage it, by adding an acid/alkali, but you NEED to pH test it, so you know which. Which sodium hydroxide did you use? Don't take any more of it, until you're certain it's fine.
 
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