Social The Delphic Oracle - Know Thyself: P&S Social Ampitheatre of Doom

[Xorkoth]

Yeah there sure is a lot of information suppression as a result of the pharmaceutical industry. I have actually heard that magnesium is an effective muscle relaxer quite a few times before, it just never really stuck with me.

 

[pharmakos]

I sometimes wonder if the laxative is added to prevent it being used as a natural sedative, though. I have taken it to induce sleep a few times where 900 mgs have been enough to make me sleep (works kind of similar to Valerian). One time I also found a combination of Magnesium and high-grade Green Tea made me feel better than a combination of Klonopin and a legal stimulant I had been using for a few days before.

(I think one thing was that it was much healthier for my body as the stimulant was pretty toxic but I definitely felt a lot better - I had virtually been poisoning myself and was coming off it)

as far as i know there is no laxative added to magnesium supplements. rather, magnesium itself is a laxative.

Nice, I am going to get some I think. I rarely get restless legs now that I am well off opiates, I think age has calmed my restlessness. But there are other times when I'd like a muscle relaxant, ie, I took a long-acting psychedelic or something and want to sleep. I'd rather take magnesium than a bunch of alcohol or a benzo. So thanks.

certain salts of magnesium are much more bioavailable than others. i forget which ones are best. i bet ninae knows off hand -- likely that magnesium citrate she mentioned.

also interesting note -- magnesium's primary mechanism of action is as a non-competitive NMDA receptor antagonist.

 

[Ninae]

as far as i know there is no laxative added to magnesium supplements. rather, magnesium itself is a laxative.

Yes, might also be right, but works out the same all the same. I've seen it mentioned there are forms without that effect, though. Maybe chelated Magnesium?

But still it's a very effective muscle-relaxer and nervous system calmer which few are aware of. Which can be used to induce sleep, for instance, and probably very important for epileptics. But somehow I doubt epileptics are quizzed about their Magnesium uptake. Not that I've seen, I've had multiple grand mal seizures and no one has ever thought to check up on my Magnesium levels.

Also, in serious opiate withdrawal it has got to be gold, with that crazy restless legs thing going on (although I can barely remember what that feels like now).

 

[swilow]

Ninae, I think it is magnesium citrate that causes laxative effect; most citrate bound molecules, indeed citric acid can be a laxative.

I'm told magnesium chelate is a good, bioavailable form, but that was from a naturopath who I neither know nor could vouch for.

But I take a magnesium chelate supplement daily and find it helps with muscular cramping/spasming (I have a weak back) and restlessness. I don't find it helpful for sleeping or anything of the sort.

to be worse in some ways than any other opiate we've been addicted to, mostly the restlessness (which for me is the worst part of withdrawal)

I've never experienced kratom w/d (indeed, I've never taken the drug and from your reports [and others] I doubt that I ever will) but from heroin at least, the restlessness is awful. But for me, its the hot/cold flush and extreme stomach cramping that gets me, and the incredible depression. Its madness. I cannot understand how I got addicted to to opiates really. The pleasure/punishment ratio is skewed massively towards punishment. Suboxone still tops it for longevity of symptoms. I was still getting cramping 12 months later.

Thank god we are both free now

 

[pharmakos]

three or four weeks ago i bought 5 ounces of kratom. just ran out of it a couple nights ago. no plans to order more for a few months.

 

[What 23]

I've had luck with magnesium chloride. Spray on magnesium oil.

Just referring to effectiveness.

I usually just take carbonate.

 

[Xorkoth]

Good call, hope you enjoyed it. If you're able to use it responsibly, kratom is a great substance for occasional use. But not worth it at all if you have a tendency to become addicted to things. It may be a leaf and only a quasi-opiate, but it hits the delta and mu opiate receptors (and a variety of other receptors) and thus it is an opiate and it produces opiate addiction when abused.

Thank god we are both free now

Indeed. I thank the universe every day when I wake up for that... every day when I wake up feeling good, and am able to fall asleep without being restless, and am able to go through my day fully satisfied without opiates. It was such a fucking drag, being addicted to opiates for 10 years... scary how I let that happen, but I've woken up now and nothing could or would make me want to go back. I'm in the best place I've ever been in life right now. And opiate addiction was the worst.

 

[pharmakos]

Good call, hope you enjoyed it. If you're able to use it responsibly, kratom is a great substance for occasional use. But not worth it at all if you have a tendency to become addicted to things. It may be a leaf and only a quasi-opiate, but it hits the delta and mu opiate receptors (and a variety of other receptors) and thus it is an opiate and it produces opiate addiction when abused.

i'm not sure why exactly i've never developed long-term compulsory use of kratom. i've been using kratom on and off for about 8 years now. i think either 1. eventually the diminishing returns due to tolerance along with the difficulty of swallowing 12+ grams of plant matter just makes it not worthwhile to me or 2. some things i feel compelled to use if i have it around the house, but once i run out i don't feel a desire to get more. i have the same sort of usage pattern with junk food. if i buy a bag of doritos or a tub of ice cream i end up eating most of it within a day or two. but if i just never grab it when i'm at the store i never casually have the desire to consume them when i'm just hanging out at home.

the only substance i've ever developed obvious compulsory use patterns with is DXM. i've even tried heroin and just didn't like it.

 

[Xorkoth]

Nice, good for you, I'm glad you don't seem too susceptible to full-on addiction. For the record I've also tried heroin (even got mildly/moderately physically addicted once after 2 weeks of daily dosing with my friend who was really into it when I couldn't get other opiates), and I don't like it either. I liked poppy tea WAYYYY more. Heroin made me feel empty and dark, poppy tea made me feel full of light (and then made me feel empty and dark all the rest of the time eventually, like all opiates will do if you get addicted to them).

 

[ebola?]

it is an opiate and it produces opiate addiction when abused.

Yeah...I'm not sure why some people expected kratom to be a magical opioid that one can take every day without obvious physical dependence. . .

ebola

 

[Erikmen]

Nice, I am going to get some I think. I rarely get restless legs now that I am well off opiates, I think age has calmed my restlessness. But there are other times when I'd like a muscle relaxant, ie, I took a long-acting psychedelic or something and want to sleep. I'd rather take magnesium than a bunch of alcohol or a benzo. So thanks.

Absolutely!

 

[Erikmen]

Yes, might also be right, but works out the same all the same. I've seen it mentioned there are forms without that effect, though. Maybe chelated Magnesium?

But still it's a very effective muscle-relaxer and nervous system calmer which few are aware of. Which can be used to induce sleep, for instance, and probably very important for epileptics. But somehow I doubt epileptics are quizzed about their Magnesium uptake. Not that I've seen, I've had multiple grand mal seizures and no one has ever thought to check up on my Magnesium levels.

Also, in serious opiate withdrawal it has got to be gold, with that crazy restless legs thing going on (although I can barely remember what that feels like now).

I'm happy for you. I really want to be able to say this myself in a near future. NO MORE!

 

[Ninae]

Well, for me when it comes to Kratom, I can only get a real effect from the strongest extracts, or the ultraenhanced strains and full-spectrum extract or tincture. These can be as good as using most opiates with a tolerance I reckon. I used regular Kratom tea for a year as a mild euphoric, but when it stops working that's it.

I agree withdrawal from these extracts can be hell. If it's just after a short time it's not bad, but if it's over a month it tends to cause a very long and painful withdrawal, worse than synthetics for some reason. What I liked the most was probably Oxycontin but they're hard to come by. And of course Dilaudid, etc. all the hard ones.

My first experience with drugs was actually under surgery when I was given intravenous Morphine. Before that I was so innocent I had no attraction to drugs as I only associated them with the negative things. Then suddenly, and to no real fault of my own, I could experience it from the inside which is what changes things around for many.

Still after that I didn't have any thoughts about it. It was first after some time after I went through a very traumatic experience I started thinking about it as I needed something. And as I was living near a big open-air market at the time I realised it would be ridiculously easy to get whatever I wanted. So I did, and it wasn't a gradual process into stronger drugs, I started out with the hard ones.

Though I soon started experimenting with weaker downers as opiates are so hard to abuse. Namely benzos, Gabapentin, Pregabalin, Kratom, also I loved doing an MXE/benzo combo for a while (really interesting). I also came accross some Rohypnol once which were something else. Much more druggy and ephoric than benzos, a bit like barbiturates perhaps. Well, that's pretty much it for me (lock up your daughters).

 

[Ninae]

The first guy I had a crush on as a teenager. He was too old for me, but the most beautiful man I'd seen. And he had a very angelic energy or that rabbit-in-the-headlights look.

Anyway, I'm going to be celebate now.

 

[Xorkoth]

For me, I started on opiates with kratom. I had tried hydrocodone a good handful of times and never found it all that great (I still never have either). Then I heard about kratom and saw it in a head shop, it was 2003 and I was in college. I LOVED it, I would brew it the traditional way because all you could get was crushed leaf. I started doing it every day pretty quickly, but it felt so easy to abuse, it felt innocent and wonderful, it made me feel more alive. Kratom, with no tolerance or years of opiate abuse, feels different from other opiates. The best opiate highs of my life were my early days of kratom.

Anyway, I soon found myself physically addicted but I got off it and was fine in about 5 days. Then a couple of months later I got another pound, and they sent me 2. I took it on family vacation and me and my cousin and girlfriend did a bunch of it every day. And then for the next 6 years I did it every day. Eventually my relationship was becoming painful (we were together for 12 years and got married in 2008 ), we weren't right for each other and as time went on the pain grew. I started using kratom to help mask that pain, and then the addiction got really bad. I worked up a very large amount of debt because I could order my opiate with a credit card.

Eventually in 2010 I decided I needed to stop, and I decided it would be a good idea to use poppy seed tea every other day, for 4-6 days, until I was past kratom withdrawal. It actually worked, after the 2nd dose, on the 4th day, I felt fine, no withdrawals. But, I liked poppy tea much better (still not as much as early days kratom but kratom had basically totally stopped working for me). So a few days after that, I did it again. And again. And before I knew it I was doing that every day and addicted to it. I went through 3 years of quitting, relapsing, lying to my wife about it, getting caught over and over again. My self-esteem was bottomed out, and things got VERY bad with my relationship. By the end of 2013 I was the lowest I've ever been, I felt dead inside, not myself, horribly depressed... I literally wished I was dead, next step was actually suicidal. The pain of my relationship was so great because of the resentment and frustration, it was crushing me, along with my addiction.

Finally we split up and she moved out and I felt a lot better quickly but I was still a junkie... I lived my life to get high, or rather, avoid withdrawals. Finally in April 2014 I took a flood dose of ibogaine at home with supervision after preparing for it thoroughly and forcing myself to not have any opiates for a week. I really believe it saved my life, it dug out the addiction completely and helped me back to the right path for my life. Ever since then my life has been amazing, I'm in the best place I've ever been physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually and everything is going great, lots of new opportunities and pursuits. My thirties are going to be so much better than my twenties, they already are.

I wrote a story about the ibogaine experience if you want to read something very long and interesting (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...First-Time-Into-The-Flood?highlight=ibogaine).

 

[Ninae]

Well done for managing to get off opiates. I found benzo addiction even more destructive but know the first year off opiates can be hard because you can barely prodce you own joy chemicals (after quitting benzo the stress and anxiety or irritation is worse).

I agree Kratom can be as good as or better than synthetic opiates. It all depends on your tolerance, what kind you're using, and what opiate you're comparing with. The strongest I've tried has to be full-spectrum tincture and ulta enhanced indo. Although Kratom tends to make you sleepy at high levels so it's limited how high you can get and be awake on it.

 

[Xorkoth]

I actually felt great right after ibogaine and still do, it's been 10 months now (actually like 10.5), but the ibogaine seemed like it literally dug the addiction out, when it was done I wasn't addicted to opiates anymore. I was very happy and comfortable immediately after and have been since and I never have cravings or anything, it's truly a miracle. Taking it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Really intense, impactful, crazy experience too, I will treasure it always.

 

[Ninae]

Sometimes miraculous changes like that can happen. Although I've found what really helps the most is taking better care of your health with as good nutrition/exercise as possible. Especially if your problems have to do with chemical imbalances and lack of good neurotransmitters.

Plus poor health factors like build-up of toxins and lack of vital nutrients directly effect how you feel anyway. It's just that most aren't raised to pay attention to it, or grow up in a society that sees it that way, but your lifestyle still makes an immense impact on your mood.

And it's definitely a good substitite for beng obsessed with drugs (most are obsessed with what makes them feel good, anyway, so why not might as well something healthy).

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I also came out of ibogaine with the strong drive to eat well and get in shape, which I did start doing and continue to do. It was everything really, I just came out of the experience suddenly on the right path again, I started following my passions because the pain that was blocking me was lifted and it's just been a chain reaction of positivity since.

 

[Ninae]

The first time I was exposed to drugs was so innocent (I'm not innocent now). I never had any attraction to drugs when I was growing up. I didn't understand why they would do that to themselves and thought of them as retarded or something (like people think of me now). Then one day I went to have some surgery done on my hand and they hooked me up with intravenous morphine. So I was totally taken off guard (and it's probably the strongest drug-experience you can have) and felt like I had suddenly entered a new world where everything was beautiful.

At first I didn't think anything of it. I didn't feel the need to, but it changed my subconscious attitude towards it and made see it in a more positive way. Then I experienced some major trauma and couldn't see how I'd be able to live with it. So I found a way, even though I had no connections to that scene, because I'm quite ingenious like that. I've seen some shady stuff just trying to get hold off drugs, though. One time I got trapped in an apartment with two prostitutes who were so evil I could tell they were prepared to break my fingers unless I gave them my money.

Then one time I went to a dangerous immigrant area of Oslo, where I first got robbed by a muslim I had approached (or he ran away with a very expensive phone). Then I was crying so a guy came up and tried to comfort me and said he would show me the way to the police station (don't ask what I thought I was going to do there) so I followed him and when we came to a less populated area, and it was around midnight, he pulled me into a bus shed and grabbed me so hard I couldn't move so I knew he was going to rape me. But just as that thought had crossed my mind a police car drove by so I just had to hold up my hand and it stopped so he ran away.

I was also on 9 Klonopin at the time so it was a bit like watching a movie or I felt quite detached from reality so the whole thing wasn't traumatic. It was more like a dream and in hindsight I thought it was quite amusing though it wasn't really. Then the police questioned me and they clocked that something wasn't quite right but I wouldn't admit to anything. So they drove me to the hospital and dropped me off and the doctor I talked to said they had told him I was a bit off, but he said he thought I seemed fine, as I can give a good impression when I want to. Then they let me spend the night there and I fell asleep right away because of the benzos. Then the next morning they gave me money for the train back home, which I didn't deserve as I already had money and afterwards I went to look for more drugs, but I was shameless enough to take it.

When I told my grandmother about it she said that time I had more luck than I deserved. I agree, although I don't think I deserved to be raped in particular. Not that someone who doesn't get saved does, but I don't think it was part of the plan for my life so I think it was one of those few times when there is some kind of intervention for you, and I'm grateful for that.