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The Cannabis Discussion Thread

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^ Not to me it isn't! Even in a set up like California where its basically a fuckin' sham because anybody and everybody can get a card, even for conditions that are generally WORSENED by cannabis like anxiety its a personal freedom issue. Not to mention that full legalisation of cannabis is the first step towards total drug law reform, I know cannabis is less harmful than most other illicits and does get looked upon more kindly than the rest by the majority of the population but I still feel as though it can only be so long after those laws are repealed anyone with a shred of logic is going to apply the idea to other substances.

Besides all that there are plenty of places that medical marijuana basically entails only being allowed to smoke when you suffer really debilitating and usually pretty fatal illnesses, most places don't routinely prescribe it for bloody headaches and insomnia like a few states of the US do. I want to be free from the possibility of persecution from the law to smoke my fuckin' grass whether I am dying of cancer or not!
 
^ you could argue that "medical marijuana" is full legalisation.
as it stands, all you need is permission from a doctor. restricted? sure, but effectively legal.
that's an option most of the world doesn't have. it's illegal, full stop.

however, the federal issue means that it is still not really legal. i mean, it is legit on a state level, but the feds could bust the whole industry any time, according to their laws, and throw the "medicine" growers/distributors in jail. and their laws don't recognise the legitimacy of this "illegal" plant being grown, sold and bought in their jurisdiction, etc etc etc.
i guess that is what i was trying to explain in my longwinded post - it's not so simple and you can't have one without the other. not in any sustainable way.
there are so many contradictions and catches and bureaucratic/cultural/historical hang-ups on this issue.

the peace at present is more of a truce than a federal acceptance of medical marijuana - that is to say that the obama administration is effectively ignoring the MM dispensaries; not changing laws to allow their existence.

who knows what the upcoming presidential elections will bring? what i'm saying is that i'm as pro-cannabis as anyone, but i don't think the battle is won yet.

edit - this was a response to jake's post before i saw d_m's reply - good points also!
 
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^ Yeah you can trip me up on the language, but the concept is hugely different. Would you describe OxyContin as legal? I mean sure it is technically, but in terms of recreational use or getting a buzz it isn't, this 'legal' status has little effect on the overwhelming majority of the population.

Obviously I would much prefer medical cannabis than NOTHING, but really the way its policed is so open to question. Technically medical marijuana is legal under US federal law, but last I heard it was years since they let anyone new on there and they had less patients than there are states in the country, to me thats technically legal but it isn't accomplishing much. You could say cannabis was techically legal in the US when they added those bullshit tax stamp laws, which stipulated its legal to possess cannabis with a stamp but you have to already be in possession of it to get one... Thats probably a poor example since it was one of the first steps towards the prohibition we see today, but I think it still serves to illustrate my point, you can argue the semantics of whether its technically legal but if it makes NO difference to 99% of people who would use it then I don't really see it as much of an improvement.
 
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drug_mentor said:
^ Yeah you can trip me up on the language, but the concept is hugely different. Would you describe OxyContin as legal? I mean sure it is technically, but in terms of recreational use or getting a buzz it isn't, this 'legal' status has little effect on the overwhelming majority of the population.
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that's a good point, but as you said, the way it is set up in a lot of states is a sham. it is a 'sham' that allows it to operate under the current framework in place.
if a state governor announced "we're legalising weed, to be sold and consumed everywhere - party time, kids!" the feds would probably send in the troops or something. it had to work within some "legality" framework that exists in the status quo.

in terms of pragmatism, the guise of "medical prescriptions" for people with (very wide-ranging, possibly vague) "medical conditions" was the path of least resistance in terms of framework for its classification. calling it "medical" has given a sense of legitimacy.
you're right to say that many of the prescriptions were for things that cannabis may not help, or may even make worse. i always thought the "cannabis for back pain" thing made little sense. i guess the same could be said for a lot of medications though.
certainly far from perfect - it is not what we should be aiming for, but it's a big step in the right direction. remember, cannabis isn't actually "legal" anywhere. not holland, not portugal - just not prosecuted. i think a vague "medical" framework is better than turning a blind eye.

i throughly agree that it isn't true legalisation - but it is a form of it.
oxycontin may not be legal without a prescription, but oxycontin is legal with a prescription. it's better than nothing.
at present in australia, cannabis is classed as having no therapeutic value. i don't agree with that - even if nobody can agree on what it is good for.

edit - maybe a medical prescription could mean little more than going to the doctor, saying "i'd like to have a puff of marijuana after a stressful day at the office", have a quick health check (breathing, blood pressure, heart rate) a word about substance misuse (driving under the influence etc) a question about family history and away you go; medical marijuana card in hand?
we need to let go of this idea that cannabis is a drug of serious destruction (like benzos or something) because it is obviously not true. so many of the drugs doctors now currently hand out to bored, depressed suburbanites have far worse toxicity and side effects than a few tokes of grass.
 
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^ Yeah but the point I was addressing didn't say, I am happy with medical marijuana IF it is ran similar to the way it is in California, who is to say it ain't gonna be run the way the federal US Government does it which is basically acknowledging its therapeutic value but restricting its use to the most insignificant percentage of the population possible.

I never said medical MJ wasn't better than nothing, infact in my last post I think I said directly it IS better than nothing. The thing is that better than nothing ain't neccessarily good enough for me when it comes to cannabis or general drug law reform, I will take whatever I get but I will be advocating FULL legalisation of ALL drugs for recreational purposes till either the day we see it or the day I fucking die.
 
me too mate, but it's not going to happen overnight - not without some very radical changes in the world.
what i'm getting it is practical change - and i like i say, i agree with you. but it's not a simple proposition.
a bit like "world peace". it's all about baby steps, or you tend to end up with a political backlash - we are still experiencing the backlash from the impact made by drugs in the 1960s. we have almost 50 years of baggage and propaganda to contend with - social devils don't disappear overnight.
if you don't take social realities into account, it still remains a pipe dream (pardon the pun).

i think we are actually stating the same thing but from different angles.
 
Yeah I know all the stupidities about America's laws with federal and state etc.

It's bullshit but it is getting better for now but I doubt Obama will have power for much longer. Even if he was shit at stopping the federal raids.

D_M, I wouldn't say that anxiety is worsened by Marijuana, in those places they get the choice of strains etc. CBD is GREAT for anxiety, THC is not. Most strains in Aus are grown for their strength which to most people is THC content as they use it to get high not for a specific condition.

If this financial crisis in America continues we may see it become even more common over there as in times of financial difficulties drug use tends to sky-rocket among the population. What helps also is increasing acceptance, a lot of people don't do it specifically for the image or fear of being an outcast.

I don't think any one ever said it is going to be simple, I think it will happen a lot sooner than you do but soon to me is within my lifetime. Measured up against the time-scale of human existence soon is quite a long time.

With my generation at school it seemed like around 40% of kids against it and 40% for it with the rest not caring and a fair faction of those that were against it or didn't care have asked me for drugs since we left highschool, lol. I think things will look a lot more positive in about 40-70 years.
 
There is to much industry and $ behind prohibition for it to change EVER.


The alcohol industry and Tobacco industrys lobby every year and give the government BILLIONS of $ in donations in order to make tighter restrictions on cannabis and other drugs and this will not change. Think about how much less people would drink if they had access to primo weed just down the street and could pop in after work ad pick up a nice thai stick or bubba kush nug.. or some hash oil for the vape!

Alot less... personally I would ! I would be picking up different nugs ever day and maybe a six pack occasionally on the weekend... but I doubt it if I had access to all types of weed, hash and edibles. ;-) I would never get bored of just smoking weed.. no more combo buzz!


Either way.. its nice to think the world is made of candy and that legalisation is just around the corner. They were saying that in the 70's mannnnnnnnnnnnn.



And the US government is RUN by criminal elements, the richest of the rich. They are surrounding iran right now for essentially WWIII and massing troops in THIS country, Syria, the Philippines and other nations. Asian war coming in the next 2 years and Iran within 6 months.. War War War.


They want the pipeline to run right through Iran and then control the straight of hormuz. Not good fellas... have a look at where afghanistan is and iran and iraq. All right there next to one another and iran is the lats card that needs to fall to control middle eastern oil..


I deal in conspiracy FACT. Not theory.


Thus I cannot think that legalization is around the corner when they could not even justify the size of the police budgets/ size of the force... without prohibition. Too many jobs would go.. the courts would clear... police would actually be able to do something useful then shutting down a party with the riot squad after the DOG squad comes through an RSL and finds a guy with a joint... there goes like 200k in overtimes plus around 25k an hour for doggies...


What a waste.

They also pepper sprayed a pregnant women that night all cause a few gentlemen objected to the use of dogs and disrupting their party...
 
spacejunk said:
^ you could argue that "medical marijuana" is full legalisation.
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The problem with this is you would be registered as having a medical problem and this will affect your life in areas you probably don't realise. This list would be able to be assessed by any one who can prove they have a "vested interest". Health and life insurance companies won't cover you, car rental would be in their rights not to hire you a car, even foreign governments such as Singapore would more than likely label you as a drug user and refuse you entry. Singapore can by rights urine test you and imprison you even if you argue that you smoked in a region where it is legal. I'd prefer total decriminalisation or else I'd stick to the annonymous black market.
 
yup, there's no way the boys (and girls) at the top are going to let go of their party so easily. it's a big power game, a big money game - keeps the populace fearful, gives the police some easy targets to help meet their quotas. hell, even the industry of drug testing in america is huge business.
they have the advantage of history, of generations of people brainwashed by propaganda.
the way forward is a windy path of playing it smart and playing the game - the work done by rick doblin and his MAPS organisation is at the vanguard of finding ways to use psychedelics (including cannabis and MDMA) for legitimate purposes - starting with medical/psychiatric.
their main premise is that the world was exposed to psychedelics at a time when we were not spiritually or socially mature enough to handle them, so they scared people and were subsequently all banned. because doblin and co are convinced (like many of us) that these drugs (including cannabis) have the potential to be extremely beneficial to mankind, their organisation is funding and carrying out psychedelic/MDMA/cannabis/entheogen research in a number of countries. the kind of research that practically all ceased in the late 1960s when psychedelic drugs were banned.

until they win the war, maybe we should all seek asylum in portugal?
 
Jakeperson said:
D_M, I wouldn't say that anxiety is worsened by Marijuana, in those places they get the choice of strains etc. CBD is GREAT for anxiety, THC is not. Most strains in Aus are grown for their strength which to most people is THC content as they use it to get high not for a specific condition.
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I am aware that CBD can help anxiety, although I have a hard time believing most of those blow your fucking head off strains don't contain an assload of THC too, I could be wrong though. Seriously though its not like they even enforce what strain you buy as far as I know, so to me anxiety is just a pretty funny condition to see listed that i think atleast 90% of the time its going to be a bullshit excuse for a script. EVEN if you felt cannabis helped with anxiety there are surely healthier and more effective options. I don't have anything against the Californian system in terms of its as close to proper legalisation as we have seen outside of The Netherlands, but personally I do find the amount of conditions and excuses for a card pretty comical.

Spacejunk - I agree we are arguing the same thing from different articles, I hadn't realised last night that your post under mine was actually addressed to Jake and initially was responding to that thinking you were talking to me.
 
I'm sure not all the strains they have are like that, I'm pretty sure you can get any strain. You can also get food, pills, sinus spray etc with varying cannibinoids in it. They have straight CBD products at some dispensaries. The doctors have no idea so they don't give that information but the guy working at the dispensary will help you with that choice. I'm sure a lot of people end up just getting high with that kinda temptation around but the options are there.
 
^ I am not even arguing with you bro, its just from my perspective the whole things a bit of a sham where its as easy (maybe easier) to get a card there (not sure how long a card lasts? But as I understand its like no other potentially recreational prescription where you would need to see a doctor every month or so) as it would be to grab a script of temaze here. There is a long list of ailments they list cannabis to help, even if you thought cannabis MAY help for most of them there are surely better remedies.

I think its much better that those with legitimate need for cannabis medicines have access to them I just don't see that the majority of use there is any more medicinal than it is recreational. I know they got a wide variety of products I just question personally how often some of the more specialist medicine types are purchased over stoney as fuck strains of straight buds like OG kush or whatever. I am not even down on it, its just hard for me not to find the whole thing a touch amusing.
 
Wow this thread has had quite a few interesting posts. Keep them coming, i'd contribute more but I've gone cold Turkey hopefully for good.
 
drug_mentor said:
^ I am not even arguing with you bro, its just from my perspective the whole things a bit of a sham where its as easy (maybe easier) to get a card there (not sure how long a card lasts? But as I understand its like no other potentially recreational prescription where you would need to see a doctor every month or so) as it would be to grab a script of temaze here. There is a long list of ailments they list cannabis to help, even if you thought cannabis MAY help for most of them there are surely better remedies.

I think its much better that those with legitimate need for cannabis medicines have access to them I just don't see that the majority of use there is any more medicinal than it is recreational. I know they got a wide variety of products I just question personally how often some of the more specialist medicine types are purchased over stoney as fuck strains of straight buds like OG kush or whatever. I am not even down on it, its just hard for me not to find the whole thing a touch amusing.
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Oh yeah, I'm not saying you're wrong, the whole thing is dodgy as. From what I hear getting a "club card" is as simple as booking the doctors appointment but for those that do need it for whatever reason do have the option of doing it safely and how it should be done. If it were me, I would not be able to help myself and stick to a CBD limited pill for my anxiety. I know that getting a card for me would be a free pass to get high as fuck all day long. It really does need a proper clean if the medical marijuana industry is going to work. I'm sure some of the other unheard of states it's not so easy to get a script and abused as often, it's hard to gauge as we really on hear of that side of it.

Maybe it is a lot easier to get scripts in general in America? They seem to have a lot more prescription medicine abuse than we have here and that's why the abuse levels are higher.

It's hard to tell without being there. (This is the perfect time for some one to chime in from the US, like you guys occasionally do and confuse the fuck out of us AusDD-ers.)
 
Memory Loss Fears over Cannabis UP IN SMOKE !

NEW research on cannabis suggests smoking a joint might not be as bad for the brain as it was once thought.

The research published in the American Journal of Epidemiology, shows cannabis users' memories are as good, if not better, than non-users'.

The findings have got pro-cannabis campaigners including Nimbin Hemp Embassy president Michael Balderstone hopeful that current anti-pot legislation will go up in smoke.

"I think the Greens will try to get a limited trial of medicinal cannabis happening soon, but it's not going to help the two million regular cannabis users in Australia," he said.

"We've been left behind."

New legislation soon to be voted on in California would see cannabis regulated in the same way alcohol was, he claimed.

Mr Balderstone said the new research was right and cannabis was not bad for memory function.

"I think that when you're stoned, you're spaced out, and some of your short-term memory goes but it does come back," he said.

"If there's a history of mental illness, you've got to be careful.

"But there's not one recorded death from cannabis use.

"Someone might have choked on a plastic bag once trying to eat an ounce or something but that's about it."

Mr Balderstone said "getting busted" was the worst health risk associated with cannabis use.

"You get a criminal record, which you have all your life, and it makes it hard to get a job, and that's when you get mental illnesses like depression," he explained.

Mr Balderstone said the "fear and paranoia of smoking under prohibition" is also one of the biggest causes of mental illness in cannabis users.

The new research on memory function is particularly relevant to Australia and New Zealand as their rates of cannabis use are highest in the world.

Mr Balderstone said the Northern Rivers has a high rate of usage when compared to other regions in those countries.http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/


feel free to move maybe leave it for a bit though guys please...so many stoners here.
 
"Someone might have choked on a plastic bag once trying to eat an ounce or something but that's about it.""

Hahaha, that made me laugh.

I remember in College when I was smoking huge amounts, I realised that every thing you can throw at weed to make it seem bad, these negative effects are pretty much all perpetuated, if not caused by prohibition.

When's the last time you remember a friend bugging out from weed. Most of the time it's because they're scared of getting arrested, or busted or what people will think of them. Honestly, had I not had the attitude of "fuck all these idiots" in college and actually developed some real independence, the mental effects of having most people I knew turn against me and judge me because I started smoking weed would have done more damage to me than actually getting caught once or twice.

It's common sense that a lifetime of smoking weed isn't going to be as harmful as say,
10 years in jail with big old hairy bubba as your sponsor/daily rapist.
 
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