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the bluelight preconception, pregnancy and parenting l337ness thread

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A lot of women don't have the time to breastfeed. I know plenty of coworkers who have their nannies formula feed because the mother has to get back to her career asap, theyre both single mothers.

Personally I do not feel women in these situations should have children. Just my opinion, not trying to tell anyone else how to live. But I wouldn't have a baby if getting back to my career was the most important thing on earth. I believe children should be raised by their mothers, not nannies.
 
^ not everybody plans to be a single mother, and the bills don't pay themselves. sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

These c list celebs in the uk have been bickering about this very subject for months after one of them gave up b/feeding stating she didnt want the paparazzi to photo her feeding her baby.

Her decision to stop breastfeeding her three-week-old daughter Betsy caused outrage amongst the breastfeeding police, including supermodel Gisele Bundchen. But TV star Denise Van Outen has hit back at her critics, branding them 'breastfeeding bullies' - despite admitting that perhaps she should have 'persevered'.
Speaking in New! magazine, Miss Van Outen, 36, admits to struggling with mastering breastfeeding, and says she felt self-conscious nursing in public. She is however adamant that it is every mother's right to choose whether to go for breast or bottle.

'I think it is really unfair because not every woman can breastfeed,' she says, 'There is a form of bullying when it comes to breastfeeding and I don't think it is right. If you are struggling with breastfeeding, like I was, it is not good for the baby to have a stressed out mother.'

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2010/08/17/denise-van-outen-unfair-pressure-from-breastfeeding-bullies/
 
A lot of women don't have the time to breastfeed. I know plenty of coworkers who have their nannies formula feed because the mother has to get back to her career asap, theyre both single mothers.

Regardless of if its a better option or not, some women dont have the time to feed their child 3 times a day or w/e and dont have a husband bringing in an income. These girls gotta get back to work to provide, it sucks, but most forumula companies market to these types of mothers because their the ones that use it the most.

Thats why they make breast pumps yo. In that case bottle feedin pumped milk is better than bottle feedin formula--if you gonna use a bottle either way might as well still try and give em the best u can. If you got the milk, if you got enough of it, if you aint got the time to nurse em, pump that shit. I always have a tough time understanding why in that situation, (as long as teh woman has enough milk) she wouldnt pump it. At that point u dealing with similar amounts of work...makin up the formula, boiling the bottles and the water needed for the formula, heating it, etc, vs pumping the milk and storing it and then heating it up when its needed. both are work, so i dont know that one or the other is really that much easier. (I dont know, Im just guessing. so i could be wrong.) Like i said before, they got pumps these days that will empty those milkbags out quick as hell. Electric double pumps, you just sit there gettin milked like a big ol' mama cow til you done, it aint nothing like those old hand pumps that take 45 minutes each breast, etc. When i was a kid my mom pumped her milk for me and my sisters for anytime when she couldnt be there to nurse us.


Honestly tho I blame the society in the US and the workplaces and the pitiful maternity leave laws we got here. If breastfeeding was seen as a necessary , important thing instead of a luxury, if employers respected women enough to allow them paid leave to take care of their baby and not just 3 or 6 months unpaid, if there was a focus on making work places friendly for children so that mothers could bring their child and let him sleep in a baby-space all day and then she could periodicly go over and nurse him and be with him on her breaks....If the need for a mother to care for her child was seen as JUST AS IMPORTANT as a womans career in the eyes of society and the men in charge...Maybe shit would be different. Women cant be blamed for needing to make ends meet and its a sad fact thats how shit ends up. But if breastfeeding was seen as a necessary, important, valued thing, not something that a mother should have to make a compromise on, if society was more accepting of it as something that everybody should have a right to and not just the "lazy" stay at home moms who dont work, etc, maybe shit would be different.

during World war 2,in the US, women were needed to work the factory jobs and other jobs that the men had left behind when they went to war. Women worked in huge numbers then, doin the mens jobs that were empty, but the thing is, the government knew they needed these women, so they were smart and did their best to take care of them. They set up child care centers in the workplace, so that women could bring their children to work with them and take care of them throughout the day. They had all kind of facilities set up to make it easier for these women to work and still care for their kids full time. It was pretty damn progressive for the US especially for that time. but when the war ended all that ended and women were expected to either stay home, or work and sacrifice bein able to take care of their babies full time.

It fuckin sucks that in this culture, you gotta choose one or the other. That a woman who has a high stakes, serious, involved career that she went to college for 4 years to learn, either gotta choose between "throwing away" everything she worked for to be a stay at home mom, or being a "bitch" and "selfish" and puttin her career first. (Im lookin at it more objectively and not thru the lens of my personal opinions. honestly,my feelings on it aint quite as strong as Deja's but still leaning kinda towards that. when women are in high paid, high rank jobs, making good money, you know, the upper west side manhattan type working in these advertising firms and law offices and publishing houses and magazines and shit like that, and they can AFFORD to hire nannies and shit like that out the ass and they got tons of money, they live in expensive homes, got 3 benz's, etc....and they pop out a kid then go back to work and let the nanny raise it...I think thats fucked up. They can afford to not work. But their career is their life, its the main thing thats important to them, and when a woman is doing that kind of 80-hours-a-week job at a investing firm or wtfever, those high-stress, high-involvement jobs that take up your whole life, I dont believe she should have a child.)

But, for the women who HAVE to work, who aint got no choice, becuz most of us do, and sometimes shit happens and you get pregnant...you get put in a tough spot. A woman who CAN not work, and just chooses to , when she has a little baby at home, I think thats fucked up yea, but most women aint like that. They need to work , and so do their men, and especially if they a single mom then they really got all the weight on them. they would love to stay home and nurse all day and chill with the baby but baby gotta eat and have a home and heat and lights, you know?

And the fact that a woman in that position, who really aint got much of a choice, would have to choose to stay home and live on the pitiful crumbs that welfare throws you, and sacrifice some quality of life for the baby, or stay working, but not be able to be there with her baby all the time, in order to keep them living in a halfway decent standard....That just fuckin blows. And thats how our society is set up. And if she stays home and goes on welfare everybody says "Oh you shouldnt have a baby on welfare, WTF's a matter with you, wat kinda mom are you, welfare mom, you should be prepared when you have a baby and have some money stacked up so you know you can take care of him, etc...." But if you go back to work when the baby is still little, and cant be with him every second, and gotta hire a babysitter or leave him in daycare, people talk shit about that too, about you being selfish for not moving heaven and earth to be able to stay home with your kid, and it just goes on and on.....

Like I said....the high paid, high power executive style woman with a serious career who has a kid becuz shes gettin close to 40 and dont wanna end up missing her chance, who hires 3 nannies to raise her kid and never sees him except for an hour at the end of the night once hes already asleep....That shit, dont seem right to me, and I feel like in that case, when you CAN choose between career and baby, you shouldnt choose the career.

But when you CANT choose, you are a victim of societys lack of respect for mothers and the real work and devotion it truly takes to be a mom. You dont get paid for that job, but the work you do is so very important. People dont treat a "stay at home mom" or "homemaker" with the same respect that they treat a "Realtor" or "Sales executive" and thats just how it is. And the companies that women work at, they dont offer a whole lotta options to women with children. Sure , you can stay home sometimes when your kids sick and gotta stay home from school. Great. Im talking about making affordable, QUALITY child care available to all women who need it thru the company, giving them PAID MATERNITY LEAVE so they can stay home for those first crucial months and not have to stress about where foods comin from, offering them flexibility and more options , more ways to work with the baby and the job together, not having to be these 2 mutually exclusive things constantly at war with each other.

I aint tryna rant about this so Ill be quiet now, but damn the shit just got me thinking of how fucked up our system in america is that mothers do so damn much yet in the grand scheme of things, other than lip service about how "moms are so great and we need them" and Hallmark cards and Mothers day, in reality, they get so little real respect. Its all talk but no action, and its sad becuz without mothers WTF would this society be. But the fact that in these times, a woman would STILL have to choose between nursing her baby and working to put food on the table, its just really fucked up to me.
 
Just be warned Lacy that in order for you to feed expressed milk you have to use a bottle and once a baby realises they can do that they often don't want to breast feed. It takes a lot of effort to extract breast from a boob and when they decide they would rather lie back and be gravity fed they will not be bothered reattaching to the nipple. Being a baby is about being fed as much as possible as often as they want.

"Not my little one, he'll do what he's told", I hear you cry, but believe me I have seen in happen in dozens of households. Being a conniving, lazy cunt comes easy to newborns and no amount of mothers law is going to change their mind. After a while you will realise that you will never produce enough from you breast without the little dude or dudette sucking the extra ducts. If you can't keep up with bub's demands things start to fall down.

They won't tell you that sort of shit in text books. Just be prepared for things to be different to what you want them to be. This goes from delivery to child raring.
 
Just be prepared for things to be different to what you want them to be. This goes from delivery to child raring.

This is true. Ive seen it several times, the parents who have very firm definite plans on how they want the birth & rearing to be can find it very difficult to cope mentally when things dont go as intended. You can only plan so much, baby might have other ideas.
 
Yeah yo lacey and deja, I agree it sucks, I was just sayin it how I saw it through a very small sample of my friends.

That's just how it is, my company gives 3 months maternity leave, then she's gotta come back, it's fucked up. Both these women work 40-50hrs a week and are pretty successful, idk if they could take a whole year off though with mortage, car, ect. just to breastfeed the kid you know?

It sucks being a single mom, but you gotta do what you gotta do and I'm sure in their minds being able to pay for a college education and nice clothes for the kid and a car when theyre old enough is how they're justifying it in their minds, which honestly, IMO, is extremely important as well.

idk just my 2cents. I'm not a woman, nor do I have kids.

edit: and I'm not close enough with them to ask if they do breastfeed in the AM when they're home or in the PM after work.

and as much as it is illegal for a company to discriminate against a women with children (or any gender discrimination), let's face it-- Who are they gonna promote, the woman who may be taking a couple extra days off to stay with the sick kid, or breastfeed or whatnot, or the man who they know doesn't have any of those concerns? Also, even if its wrong, if she's still young and just had one, I think in the back of their minds they think there may be another one coming, which would mean another few months off and another reason to miss work with the kids. It sucks, but thats how it is, and most of the people in upper management are men, who need their profits to be as high as possible at the ed of the quarter and paid maternity leave is just another thing to write down on the expense side of the ledger.
 
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In the US, about 80% or more of women get episiotomies. They aint done when there is a definite need, but they are done as a matter of standard routine becuz it makes it quicker and easier for the doctor to deliver the baby.

When they cut an episiotomy, they make a deeeep cut, deep into the muscle, all the way to the butt.

Hmmmmm, American doctors are definitely doin it wrong then...
I would refuse an episiotomy as well if I was in the US :D

That is so awesome that your mama's gonna be there for the birth :) <3
 
Just be warned Lacy that in order for you to feed expressed milk you have to use a bottle and once a baby realises they can do that they often don't want to breast feed. It takes a lot of effort to extract breast from a boob and when they decide they would rather lie back and be gravity fed they will not be bothered reattaching to the nipple. Being a baby is about being fed as much as possible as often as they want.

"Not my little one, he'll do what he's told", I hear you cry, but believe me I have seen in happen in dozens of households. Being a conniving, lazy cunt comes easy to newborns and no amount of mothers law is going to change their mind. After a while you will realise that you will never produce enough from you breast without the little dude or dudette sucking the extra ducts. If you can't keep up with bub's demands things start to fall down.

They won't tell you that sort of shit in text books. Just be prepared for things to be different to what you want them to be. This goes from delivery to child raring.

Oh I know that about the bottles and all that, you aint givin me news there busty. that does happen alot. Ive noticed these days they actually design the fake nipples to be really resistant, i seen ones with springs and shit in them and all kinda crazy ish that makes it much harder to get the milk out the bottle to make it more realistic. Still tho, that is a problem that lots of people have. IDK how my moms dealt with it but I know that she used expressed milk once in a rare while when she had to, but i agree the more you do it the more that the baby will say fuck a titty, i want the bottle its less work.

But, my point in sayin to use the pumped milk was for women who are already gonna bottle feed their baby anyways-- in that case they might as well bottle feed them breast milk instead of formula, as long as their boobs work. :)
 
But, my point in sayin to use the pumped milk was for women who are already gonna bottle feed their baby anyways-- in that case they might as well bottle feed them breast milk instead of formula, as long as their boobs work.
boobs know the difference between baby and pump, they dont often work for a pump. my mom breast fed me for 18months and never could pump. also if you start off pumping you are way less likely to get a let down. also if a mom has working breasts but chooses not to nurse for whatever reason, i dont see her making the choice to "just pump instead" because it requires a lot more work and pain to pump then to nurse
 
Hey, good things dont come without a sacrifice. For me, the extra work is worth knowing that i would be giving my kid thebest option of the 2 in my opinion. for some people it might not be. let them do their thing, its all good. but for me, i would take the extra effort and make the sacrifice, yea it would make my day harder but I feel that the benefits of breast milk is worth that extra effort. thats just me tho.
 
This is something I feel really strongly about (i'm the bloke), when we had our first child we planned to breastfeed from the beginning wanting the best start in her life and her to be fit and healthy and planned to stick it out regardless as we had been told everyone can do it.
In Uk hospitals your not allowed to leave until you are feeding you child. My partner worked so so hard to breast feed, trying every angle every trick in the book. The breastfeeding expert was at her wits end too. It was nothing my partner was doing wrong she would latch onto the nipple perfectly but just didn't suck hard enough for the milk... after 4 days of being in hospital the midwifes discharged her and new baby despite the fact she wasn't getting enough milk. She spent 5 weeks constantly trying everything, she didn't sleep and it was destroying what is meant to be a joyous time. All are daughter would do is scream as she was litrally starving to death, my partner was in tears feeling like a failure and then when I changed her nappy I saw her urine had this bright red stuff and she was getting jaundiced really quick. My partner never wanted to give up but I knew it was the best thing for all of us and I went to the shop and bought the bottle and milk and took it home and took charge and gave her her first proper meal. I was in the position to take the guilt off her and I know 100% it was the right decision. My daughter is now two and a half and has never had so much as a cold and is so healthy....When we had our second child the breastfeeding went and is going great so we are sticking at it. I mean who wants to spend £8 a tin on baby milk! but this stuff about people being bad mothers not to breastfeed is disgusting sometimes it's just the best way. Sorry rant over!
 
nobody thinks that a woman who is physically incapable of breastfeeding is a bad mother, and I dont think anybody here has said that. :)
 
Hey, good things dont come without a sacrifice. For me, the extra work is worth knowing that i would be giving my kid thebest option of the 2 in my opinion. for some people it might not be. let them do their thing, its all good. but for me, i would take the extra effort and make the sacrifice, yea it would make my day harder but I feel that the benefits of breast milk is worth that extra effort. thats just me tho.

I would a million times over rather actually spend time with my baby then be attached to a pump. I guess we each pick our battles.

I'll write more later on why I think it can be more neglectful to be a stay-at-home-mom then to have someone else watch them while both parents work.
 
i have so many strong opinions on this, but it boils down to what lacey has tried to elucidate vehemently despite the comments to her that didn't seem to realize this....and that is basically that some feed formula for need, and some for convenience, and can you please explain to her why you go with option b.

i personally have known moms who while exemplary as a mom, i mean really. stop taking the goddamned kid to the park twice a day before the nap and after nap. how many projects did you do today? srsly? for fuck sake, i'm feeling guilty over here. and you already did a picture shoot last month, and the private schools and the plethora of extracurricular classes, just stop. *hangs self*

.....but these are the moms i hear most that just didn't want to nurse. "ew", and "didn't wanna" were some of the answers in these casual convos. unlike forums, you don't delve into debates with your acquaintances. but it is these casual convos that lead me to also ask the same damn question.


i would like one decent answer to why you would choose formula over breast milk without regards to health, time management or pain.

i'm not saying you are a bad mom if you can't, by all means no way in hell, just curious what the reasons are if they aren't dictated by roadblocks. i mean, it is simply better to feed nutrients via option A. you are choosing option B. why?
 
basically that some feed formula for need, and some for convenience, and can you please explain to her why you go with option b.
i would like one decent answer to why you would choose formula over breast milk without regards to health, time management or pain.
Aren't all those reasons why its inconvenient?

Of the mothers i know that choose formula their reasons are, pain; inability to pump, and milk production.

I can see how there could be some mothers that choose not to breast feed because they dont feel comfortable. Like how some people don't feel comfortable wearing shorts. Sure i dont understand why on earth somewhere would choose to never ever under any circumstance even in the hottest weather ever, still not wear shorts..but its not that big if a deal!! Some women/people are just uncomfortable with their bodies..wow news flash!
 
Personally I do not feel women in these situations should have children. Just my opinion, not trying to tell anyone else how to live. But I wouldn't have a baby if getting back to my career was the most important thing on earth. I believe children should be raised by their mothers, not nannies.

Maybe its just me because I have 2 babies under the age of 2, and of course my older one is borderline special needs, but I have found that I cannot be a good mother to them if I am the only one that takes care of them (meaning, stays with them all day, my husband still helps at night and we have family that babysits)
I think the first 3 months are definately crucial for bonding time with baby and mother. Its traumatic for both baby and mother to be physically separate for the first time in 9months, so I agree that for the first 3 months or so the baby and mother should be together, and the baby should be worn as much as possible.
Beyond that though, I am a firm believer that it takes a village to raise a child I think its beneficial to have someone watching babies/kids who doesn't care about the dishes, the laundry, etc.. and can be focused on the baby 100% (of course finding adequate childcare is important! ideally grandparents or other family members are the best!) The parents are still there to love, care for, sing to, learn with, etc the child(ren) But its incredibly draining to be with children 100% or even 80% of the time, and all parents NEED ways to distracts ourselves and recharge our batteries so that when we are with our children we can give them 100% of ourselves. Its just like sleeping, we all NEED sleep, we cant function without it. I dont think one parent can function being home all day with kids without a regular, consistent break.
I used to work part-time when it was just my daughter and that was AWESOME!!! I missed her sooo much when i was gone and just loved her to pieces when ever i was with her. When i got laid off i I was really excited to be able to give her all my love and attention. That didn't last too long though! I only got a chance to be away from her a few times a week when i went to PT and occasionally when my husband and I went on dates. It just got to be too much and slowly I started seeing that i just couldn't give her everything i have.
I guess everyone is different though and it appears that some mothers are perfectly capable of staying at home and raising their children by themselves, but I'm begining to think all of that is a facade and really in the inside they are breaking down. Maybe I just tell that to make myself feel better though because I am definately emotionally broken :|
My husband and I made the decision for me to go back to work, not only because my brain decided to go on vacation, but also because my in-laws are GREAT with my kids! And my kids do so much better with them around.

I dont see anything wrong with a women choosing to help provide for her family and put food on the table over spending every waking moment with her kids
 
The british government are taking steps to help working mothers breastfeed...

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ng-areas-at-work/story-e6frfku0-1225962403818

BRITISH working mothers should be given the right to breastfeed their babies during office hours, according to a government proposal to be launched on Tuesday.
A Department of Health white paper will set out a plan to encourage firms to adopt “breastfeeding-friendly employment policies” in a push to increase the UK’s low rates of breastfeeding.

Firms will be urged to provide private areas where women can breastfeed or express milk and dedicated fridges for storing it.

Another proposed measure is greater flexibility around when mothers take breaks, enabling them, where possible to return home to breastfeed their child.

Government ministers argue that increasing breastfeeding rates has the potential to boost children’s health and cut infant mortality levels.

The UK Health Secretary Andrew Lansley said: “Giving young families good support is key to tackling health inequalities and key to good health in the whole population.

"Breastfeeding is one of the best ways to give babies good health, but our society doesn't always make it easy for new mums to do it. We want to make it easier for new mums to breastfeed.”

“If we can make it easier more mums would breastfeed and they might do it for longer, giving their children the best start in life,” Mr Lansley added.

Around 66 percent of British women in manual jobs breastfeed, compared with 88 percent of professionals.

National Health Service figures recently showed that 39 percent of mothers who stopped breastfeeding between four and six months after childbirth blamed work.

Women in England won the right to breastfeed in public last month and the European parliament also voted last month to give women the right to two separate, one-hour periods off for breastfeeding each day.

The scheme, due to be introduced over the next few months, will be tried out initially by several as yet unnamed private companies at no cost to the businesses.

It will be concentrated in less affluent areas where the number of mothers breastfeeding is traditionally low.

And Indonesia is taking a more militant approach...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11586719

In Indonesia a new law has been passed that stipulates all babies should be exclusively breastfed for the first six months of life. From early next year, anyone who stands in the way of this will be fined up to 100m rupiah (£7,000; $11,000) and sentenced to up to a year in prison.
 
There's been some great discussion in here so I'm going to merge this with our general parenting/conception/birth thread :)
 
I dont usually agree with things I read about British laws but RIGHT ON!!

as far as Indonesia...wow....thats messed up
 
Why did this thread get merged into the other one?

Does every thread that has anything to do at all with parenting gotta go in here now?

If this one got merged, how come the breast feeding sucks thread didnt also?

Usually I wouldnt mind but I think they were better apart.
 
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