☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Storage Thread

[Cyanoide]

Well I don't have access to amber vial, so I let my 2C-C in the baggie as it come, I placed the baggie in a little metallic box with some sillica gel in it (not in the 2C-C but next to the baggie). I placed my box in the drawer, in the dark at room temperature (but I guess the 2C-C is kept fresh via the metallic box). So finally it is OK for decades ? :D

I'll trip on 2C-C tonight Going for 25 mg and maybe a redrop. Will be my first RC !

Phenethylamines are in general quite stable and don't need to be stored in amber vials and kept in a freezer (unlike tryptamines, especially the 4-subbed ones, who are quite prone to degradation). Store it in a dark, cool and dry place. Most phens will last years this way. If you're thinking about storing it for decades, well then amber vials and a freezer would be a good idea.

 

[Kapitan]

I used to keep my tryptamines in amber glass vials, with a small packet of desiccant inside the vial, and then put the vials inside a mason jar filled with more desiccant. The entire thing then goes in the freezer. I've stored iprocin hcl this way for almost two years, and it was still white. You might consider investing in some argon, rather than using a vacuum, if you're aiming for long-term storage.

TIP: Be sure to let the entire container warm up to room temperature before you open anything. Otherwise, condensation will get all over everything, which is probably worse than if you had just stored it at room temperature in the first place. I lost a half gram of 4-AcO-DMT this way

Awesome amber glass vials: http://www.specialtybottle.com/glassvialsmi.aspx

 

[Asante]

You don't need argon for an inert gas, Computer Duster gas is a good substitute, as is butane. Under an inert atmosphere in the dark, tryptamines store indefinitely. Phenethylamine HCl salts in lab vials in the freezer store indefinitely. MXE I'm very curious about, minimum precaution would be storing it airtight in the freezer to ensure long shelf life.

 

[Asante]

A good way to do it is fill a plastic bag with inert gas, and open and close the vials in that through the bag wall. This will drown out most oxygen. You use glass vials because ziplock bags breathe air and water vapor, especially in longterm storage. Like Kapitan said, 2 dram lab vials are ideal. Butane has a boiling point of 0'C yes, but the moment it starts condensing the pressure in the vial drops, and the boiling point drops with it. I agree Argon is the very best (well Xenon is for convenience) If you want to do it the oldschool apothecary way you dip the top halves of the lab vials in molten wax to ensure a perfect seal.

Some people are stocking up for the next few decades of their life. Using inert gas and wax seals isn't so odd from that perspective.

 

[Cyanoide]

A good way to do it is fill a plastic bag with inert gas, and open and close the vials in that through the bag wall. This will drown out most oxygen. You use glass vials because ziplock bags breathe air and water vapor, especially in longterm storage. Like Kapitan said, 2 dram lab vials are ideal. Butane has a boiling point of 0'C yes, but the moment it starts condensing the pressure in the vial drops, and the boiling point drops with it. I agree Argon is the very best (well Xenon is for convenience) If you want to do it the oldschool apothecary way you dip the top halves of the lab vials in molten wax to ensure a perfect seal.

Some people are stocking up for the next few decades of their life. Using inert gas and wax seals isn't so odd from that perspective.

Would spraying computer duster into a large ziplock bag with a vial inside, and then open and close the vial inside, be effective enough? I'm just wondering if too much oxygen will enter the ziplock bag before closing it even if you do it as quickly as you can.

I too have plans for long-term storage but have only used glass vials stored in the freezer with silica gel as a desiccant so far. I've never tried to create an inert atmosphere for the tryptamines.

 

[Asante]

You put the vial in the bag, squeeze the air out, then inflate it with inert gas, then recap it so that the vial's air mixes with the inert gas.

 

[Mandelbrot]

But you're going to open it with some regularity, no? What else is the use of a lifetime stash?

I'd say screw the inert gas. 1 ml of air hold 0.2 ml of oxygen, which is an infinitesimal amount, really. I'm too lazy to do the math on molarities right now. Just pack in individual glass screw-top vials, and make sure there's a Teflon lined rubber seal: I use HPLC-vials. Store those in a tupperware box or similar, in your freezer. Moisture, Warmth and Light are your real enemies.

If you want to find out if your material is susceptible to degradation, leave 100mg of each out in a warm, moist environment in direct sunlight (around the Black Sea in summer would be excellent! %)) for a week or two, preferably on a glass Petrie-dish. If it's still half as potent as before after that, stamp it "indefinite" when in your fridge. If it turns to black mush, don't store it indefinitely. Happy testing, and let us know, please!

PS: Blotters do not keep well at all. Better use those while they're hot, I say!

 

[TheLostSun]

I've seen both tryptamine and phens stay relatively perfect if just left in a dry dark place.
Still in the original plastic bags, a few of them over three years old with no loss of potency. RC'S are like the old dusty wine bottles people find in basements they can last forever. If just stored and forgotten about, its when there left out for the elements particularly moist bright areas that is when most people run into problems I also believe any rc that has a very low dose range like DOB for example should be stored in alcohol for liquid measurement that makes them virtually impossible to decay even if all the alcohol evaporates the powder will still be there.

 

[SleepingTaper]

I have a friend that keeps his in a tupperware dish filled with rice covered of course and in a brown paper bag. All I keep hearing about storage is cool, dark and dry. So I figure that's gotta be the best way, rice will absorb water out of your phone and bring it back to life!!!!

 

[Incunabula]

How about storage of MXE hcl?

Well, MXE hasn't been around long enough for anybody to now. But I can tell you that I stored about 4 grams of ketamine in 1 dram amber glass vials in a tupperware box in the freezer, without ever opening them. Caps did not have an interior lining though. After 5 years I took them out and it had definitely lost a lot of potency. Even though people are always saying that ketamine is pretty stable.

Ok, i'm about to get amber glass vials for each compound to store them. Just a quick question on how you put the oxygen absorber in the vial with your powder or crystals. Do you layer an aluminum foil buffer in between or just let the absorber-pack sit directly in the powder? Sounds messy to me, but well, i'm unsure how not wo waste anything of the substance that sticks to the absorber pack.

Don't put the dessicants inside the vials with the compounds! I'd say the best option would be to get smaller vials (1/4 or 5/8 dram) and fill them to the rim, so all air gets forced out.

I've seen both tryptamine and phens stay relatively perfect if just left in a dry dark place.
Still in the original plastic bags, a few of them over three years old with no loss of potency. RC'S are like the old dusty wine bottles people find in basements they can last forever. If just stored and forgotten about, its when there left out for the elements particularly moist bright areas that is when most people run into problems I also believe any rc that has a very low dose range like DOB for example should be stored in alcohol for liquid measurement that makes them virtually impossible to decay even if all the alcohol evaporates the powder will still be there.

Sorry, but it's not really as simple as that. Research Chemicals's is a word that cover a whole range of various compounds, all with very different properties.

 

[biffhenderson]

I know this is so obvious that it should not have to be pointed out, but I'll do it anyway. Any of you ever have kids in your house? Keep this stuff secure from kids 100% please.

 

[Incunabula]

@fagott
how about putting the tightly sqeezed ziplock bags into a glass vial and put an oxygen asorber with them? then put all glass vials in a mason jar and put some dessicants and absorbers in there as well and put it in the freezer?

i'd really like to keep especially MXE and some tryptamines for a very long time.

Sounds reasonable

I'm pretty sure a lot of your stuff is going to last maybe 4-5 years that way, but longer? Probably not.

 

[Cyanoide]

I'm actually left with lots of options here (excluding some like e.g. using argon for an inert atmosphere because argon is very expensive here and you have to buy it in large amounts).

I want to store my tryptamines for at least 2-3 years, but also use them.

Anyway I intend to do like this;

1) Move the tryptamines from 2 dram vials to smaller vials (is this really necessary? Just thinking there would be less oxygen in the vials this way as was already pointed out. I do have a lot of different vials in different shapes), probably 1/2 dram vials. I'm going to use amber vials but I've also used clear glass vials (I know amber vials reflect less light but the vials are exposed to minimum amounts of light).
2) Put the vials in large ziplock bags, then squeeze the ziplock bags and spray computer duster into them
3) Open the screw cap from the vials and close it again (while inside the ziplock bag sprayed with computer duster) to remove oxygen
4) Store the vials in a glass jar in the freezer

Would this be a realistic plan to store tryptamines for 2-3 years without much loss of potency? The thing is I have to open the vials every now and then when I use anything inside them, and have to repeat the process from steps 2-4 every time. Anyway that's not a big deal.

 

[Kapitan]

I'm interested in this idea of using computer duster as an inert gas. Unless I'm mistaken, those typically consist of halogenated low-weight alkanes, which are very reactive. In particular, primary alkyl halides react well with primary or secondary amines.

The sample I'm most interested in preserving is freebase 4-HO-DMT. This is a tertiary amine, and the "computer duster" available at my local store is the 3M kind, which is 1,1-difluoroethane. I guess a tertiary amine is unlikely to react with a secondary alkyl halide, especially a fluorinated one, not to mention that it's not in solution. At the same time, though, it seems disingenuous to recommend such gases as "inert," especially when compared to something like Argon. It's entirely possible that these types of gases could react with phenethylamines, right?

It's been a while since I took O Chem, so someone correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Solipsis]

I'm interested in this idea of using computer duster as an inert gas. Unless I'm mistaken, those typically consist of halogenated low-weight alkanes, which are very reactive. In particular, primary alkyl halides react well with primary or secondary amines.

The sample I'm most interested in preserving is freebase 4-HO-DMT. This is a tertiary amine, and the "computer duster" available at my local store is the 3M kind, which is 1,1-difluoroethane. I guess a tertiary amine is unlikely to react with a secondary alkyl halide, especially a fluorinated one, not to mention that it's not in solution. At the same time, though, it seems disingenuous to recommend such gases as "inert," especially when compared to something like Argon. It's entirely possible that these types of gases could react with phenethylamines, right?

It's been a while since I took O Chem, so someone correct me if I'm wrong

About 1,1-difluoroethane: (http://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductMSDSDetailCB3854228_EN.htm)

Incompatible with strong oxidizing and reducing agents Incompatible with many amines, nitrides, azo/diazo compounds, alkali metals, and epoxides

Considering phenethylamines are typically quite stable it would be non-sensical to go to such far measures as using gases like this. Most phenethylamine probably would outlive us if just put in a baggy in a drawer somewhere, at least if they don't have sensitive chemical groups (most don't).
With tryptamines which are often tertiary instead of primary (most PEAs) and secondary amines (NBOMe's for example), it's more like inappropriate and excessive. CO2 is also not really inert since it could create carbonate salts out of freebase compounds which is not what you want... though this probably doesn't really happen when desiccants are used.
I agree that oxygen absorbers sound more like the way to go, also don't forget about vacuumsealers and HDPE. But I don't know how porous HDPE is on long term. If you have argon at your disposal, that seems at least interesting but I'd forget about things like duster.

 

[Kapitan]

Thanks! That's what I was thinking, but I wanted to make sure. That other guy seemed so sure that computer duster would work as a cheap inert gas

 

[Cyanoide]

I agree that oxygen absorbers sound more like the way to go, also don't forget about vacuumsealers and HDPE. But I don't know how porous HDPE is on long term. If you have argon at your disposal, that seems at least interesting but I'd forget about things like duster.

I now have amber vials in different sizes, glass jars, oxygen absorbers and desiccants (silica gel and magnesium sulfate). The vacuumsealers are quite expensive though. Can anyone recommend a good but not insanely expensive vacuumsealer?

Also, I'm not familiar with HDPE. Can anyone elaborate a bit on the use of HDPE?

 

[Cyanoide]

I'm probably making a fool of myself here but since my tryptamines are at stake I'm going to ask anyway.

Ziplock bags are strongly discouraged, but there's no way (?) to vacuum seal vials and glass jars with smaller vacuum sealers (for food, not for clothes, those bags are huge). So would vacuum sealed bags with ziplock bags inside, with the vacuum sealed bags in amber vials (which in turn would be put in glass jars with oxygen absorbers and dessiccants (I have silica gel and magnesium sulfate) be sufficient?

Just for the sake of an example, all vacuum sealers seem to be something like this.

If there aren't any objections to this, and my tryptamines could be stored up to 3 years without any noticeable loss of potency I'm going to do it this way.

Edit: And the HDPE, I'd like more information about that. Anyone, Solipsis (you mentioned HDPE)?

Edit2: I did manage to find vacuum sealers I can buy locally at reasonable prices, e.g. this one and this. Translation with Google works poorly but at least you get a slight picture of the specs.

 

[Contained]

How well do you all think Montmorillonite Clay would fair as a desiccant for storage? Any improvement over basic silica gel?

 

[Cyanoide]

I'm pretty certain that this only applies to "Ziplock bags alone" for storage, since they let oxygen travel through. .

Yes this was what I meant, I'm actually going to store them in ziplock bags the way I described above.