Dissociatives The Big & Dandy PCP Thread

[AA357]

ASPD is a very serious condition that shouldn't be underestimated. For the sake of harm reduction, I would like to say that ASPD sufferers shouldn't take psychedelic drugs

I disagree.
ASPD 'sufferers' are emotionally shallow and less easily traumatized than most people so there's less scope for a bad trip.

That said, I wonder if this condition could be successfully treated with psychedelic therapy while under the care of a very highly trained and experienced psychiatrist that hasn't been bought by the pharmaceutical industry.

I highly doubt it.
When I take psychedelics, I get a profound feeling of love for myself. Everything looks so beautiful and it fills me with joy but I know that it's just my brain that's making me see these things. The euphoria is blissful but it's all very hedonistic, superficial and silly.
I never actually learn anything from tripping and these drugs haven't done anything to change my world view. If anything, they just reinforce my way of thinking. I like psychedelics because for the most part they are physically harmless and the euphoria they give is unparalleled.

ya it basically means you're a bad person and possibly dangerous.

Define a 'bad person'.
There are good psychopaths and bad non-psychopaths in this world.
I'm no saint but I do believe that in the grand scheme of things, I am one of the good guys.

 

[psy997]

I disagree.
ASPD 'sufferers' are emotionally shallow and less easily traumatized than most people so there's less scope for a bad trip.

Then wouldn't that also lead to decreased potential emotional consequences, thus increasing the likelihood of acting outrageously? If you are emotionally shallow, then wouldn't the subconsciousness deterrents to acting in ridiculous ways such as "what will my family think...what will my best friends think...how will I feel if I do this...how will I feel if doing this hurts others..." be less, thus lowering the threshold of your mind saying "ok let's do this"?

I'm not attacking you, or the condition. I just had the thought after reading and am seeing two sides to this.

 

[Sporehead]

So I got a little vial of what I'm told is pcp in ether. It has some tobacco in it from the previous owner dipping. Can I strain and evap this then follow with an acetone wash of the vial? It'd be nice to know how much it actually contains for safe dosing. I also have that 3mg I posted about before. Was thinking of combining them if the cumulative weight isn't too high. What's a good starter dose anyway? Was hoping for shorter duration and a mediumish intensity. Not sure the roa for this.

 

[lamanogaucha]

ASPD "sufferers" are emotionally shallow and less easily traumatized than most people, so there's less scope for a bad trip.

Please direct me to the scientific paper(s) that demonstrate the above statement to be fact.

Also, you mentioned that when you take psychedelics (which are potentially and ideally mind-expanding substances), your world view and established beliefs are not just left unchanged, but reinforced, and you apparently prefer that. With that in mind, I have to ask the following: do you take psychedelics for anything other than temporary pleasure and/or escapism, at least sometimes?

 

[Help?!?!]

So I got a little vial of what I'm told is pcp in ether. It has some tobacco in it from the previous owner dipping. Can I strain and evap this then follow with an acetone wash of the vial? It'd be nice to know how much it actually contains for safe dosing. I also have that 3mg I posted about before. Was thinking of combining them if the cumulative weight isn't too high. What's a good starter dose anyway? Was hoping for shorter duration and a mediumish intensity. Not sure the roa for this.

Yeah you could do that! Oral, vaped, plugged, IM, and IV. They'll all work you'd just need to adjust doses accordingly to each ROA. Three mgs vaped would actually probably be a pretty fair dose. Guy didn't tell you the concentration, just smoking like dip a cig in, and smoke X amount?

 

[AA357]

Then wouldn't that also lead to decreased potential emotional consequences, thus increasing the likelihood of acting outrageously? If you are emotionally shallow, then wouldn't the subconsciousness deterrents to acting in ridiculous ways such as "what will my family think...what will my best friends think...how will I feel if I do this...how will I feel if doing this hurts others..." be less, thus lowering the threshold of your mind saying "ok let's do this"?

I'm not attacking you, or the condition. I just had the thought after reading and am seeing two sides to this.

Yeah I see what you mean. I think being less susceptible to having a bad experience in the first place kinda offsets this risk though. I think what you're saying would apply more to borderline than ASPD - people who have strong emotions and insecurities to begin with.

Please direct me to the scientific paper(s) that demonstrate the above statement to be fact.

I've had a look but I can't find any studies on the effects of psychedelics on people with ASPD.
The condition itself is well-documented though.
Personally I have had a couple of bad trips but these were caused by silly things such as my flat being a mess; or restless energy from being bored and having nothing to do (this sucks when you're tripping). When you're chronically unable to give a shit, you're much less at risk of freaking out.

Also, you mentioned that when you take psychedelics (which are potentially and ideally mind-expanding substances), your world view and established beliefs are not just left unchanged, but reinforced, and you apparently prefer that.

Yup - it's a great feeling. It's because of this that I'm able to use these drugs so frequently.

With that in mind, I have to ask the following: do you take psychedelics for anything other than temporary pleasure and/or escapism, at least sometimes?

No... for me, it's all about having a good time.

EDIT: I just noticed this:

I slightly altered the punctuation...

What's the difference between "-" and "--"?

 

[Sporehead]

Yeah you could do that! Oral, vaped, plugged, IM, and IV. They'll all work you'd just need to adjust doses accordingly to each ROA. Three mgs vaped would actually probably be a pretty fair dose. Guy didn't tell you the concentration, just smoking like dip a cig in, and smoke X amount?

Cool thanks. So how much adjusting should be made for each ROA? I was hoping to vape it considering the theoretically shorter duration. I guess the only issue is I don't know what form it is in. If the dry stuff is Hcl I can't do much but eat it right? But we can assume the liquid solution is freebase. Is 3mg really a fair dose? I know erowid is pretty lacking in information on this chem. Due to the long half life, I wouldn't want to redose if the initial dose wasn't strong enough for my preferences. I wouldn't be able to for a while anyway. This bag of K has been too interesting lately so my tolerance has to drop or I need to stay away from the K lol.

Guy I got it from said he paid $20 for it and he and his friend had dipped it a few times already. They were street kids digging through a trash can at safeway. I walked up and offered them a bump of K since I was feeling good. They kicked the vial to me in exchange. It's not a lot of liquid, maybe 1ml. Guess I'll start evapping.

 

[Help?!?!]

No erowids pretty good actually, sorry man, I'm mega fucked or I'd be more help. With PCP you can vape nearly any form really, it's just with certain chemicals it's best because of MP's, degradation, etc. No worries with the wet though!

My best advice is if you don't want to take the trouble, dip a cig yourself, and just start with small hits. With P, believe me youll know when your there!

 

[Nom de Plume]

I really enjoy the effects of PCP, and I regard myself as an inveterate or experienced user of this drug. Although I'm no neophyte with this drug, I've only ever administered PCP via intranasal and inhalational ROAs, with the HCL salt and the freebase forms, respectively.

Recently, however, I have been interested in the exploration of different ROAs, namely IV and IM. Because this compound is so intense, I'm admittedly quite apprehensive and chickenshit about the idea of jumping right into the act of shooting up sherm, tout de suite, without knowing precisely what the hell I'd get myself into.

So, seeing as how I'm far too pusillanimous to learn through my own experimentation, I am wondering if anyone could expound on the qualitative differences between, say, IV and intranasal routes of administration. I apologise if this topic has already been broached in this thread. I don't feel motivated enough to sift through 15 pages of discussion to figure out for sure if my comment is unique.

 

[Help?!?!]

IV would be like instant anesthesia from my understanding. I would go the IM route, but you know HR, and all that.

 

[Sporehead]

Found out the solid I have is hcl. I read it's not effective or recommended to vape this. Is my soirce wrong or?

Erowid is a good site, I just meant the information on this substance seems rather sparse in regards to my questions.

 

[Help?!?!]

Found out the solid I have is hcl. I read it's not effective or recommended to vape this. Is my soirce wrong or?

Erowid is a good site, I just meant the information on this substance seems rather sparse in regards to my questions.

Truth. From what I know vape style, PCP is one of the few that's good to go in all forms!

 

[lamanogaucha]

What's the difference between "-" and "--"?

Nothing, really... The only true but very minor differences were the two commas and the hyphen that I added to "mindbending". I sometimes make small adjustments when I quote posters.

Thanks for the interesting insights regarding your experience with psychedelics vis-à-vis ASPD. What you said seems logical and you may well be correct. On the other hand, I don't think that it's wise to assume that everyone with your condition can use these drugs safely, as the opposite could be the more likely scenario. We simply don't know, due to lack of scientific research and anecdotal reports, and therefore, taking great caution is advisable.

Incidentally, are you prescribed any medication for your ASPD? If so, which one(s) and for how long have you been taking it/them? Also, are you currently under the care of a psychologist and/or psychiatrist? Your mental adjustment seems to be essentially normal, so I wonder if you're dealing with any of the aforementioned or if you're going solo (i.e. "self-therapy").

 

[AA357]

Thanks for the interesting insights regarding your experience with psychedelics vis-à-vis ASPD. What you said seems logical and you may well be correct. On the other hand, I don't think that it's wise to assume that everyone with your condition can use these drugs safely, as the opposite could be the more likely scenario. We simply don't know, due to lack of scientific research and anecdotal reports, and therefore, taking great caution is advisable.

Yeah, symptoms and severity of this condition do vary from person to person. The more impulsive types would probably be better off avoiding drugs.

Incidentally, are you prescribed any medication for your ASPD? If so, which one(s) and for how long have you been taking it/them? Also, are you currently under the care of a psychologist and/or psychiatrist? Your mental adjustment seems to be essentially normal, so I wonder if you're dealing with any of the aforementioned or if you're going solo (i.e. "self-therapy").

My GP prescribed me low-dose citalopram 3 months ago to help "mellow me out" (his words)... it has had a subtle effect. At the time my anger issues were starting to affect my personal relationships with the few people I actually do give a shit about (people think we don't need anybody but this isn't true).

He told me there wasn't really anything else that he or the therapist could do for me. I'm content with who I am and I have no desire to change my way of thinking. I want more out of life and I feel I'm entitled to it. What I need to do is better my circumstances (i.e. find a better job, get more money, have more sex) and stay away from people and situations that piss me off.

 

[lamanogaucha]

I appreciate your frankness. I assume that you're still on the citalopram -- an SSRI. You probably already know that that class of drugs isn't safe to use in combination with psychedelics (except perhaps salvia divinorum, an atypical psychedelic), but I should mention it, just in case. Such mixtures can lead to serotonin syndrome, which can kill, if severe enough. SSRI's are especially dangerous when used in combination with aMT, 2C-T-7, ayahuasca, pharmahuasca, other MAOI's, DXM, ibogaine, tramadol and 5-HTP. Be very careful.

 

[AA357]

I appreciate your frankness. I assume that you're still on the citalopram -- an SSRI. You probably already know that that class of drugs isn't safe to use in combination with psychedelics (except perhaps salvia divinorum, an atypical psychedelic), but I should mention it, just in case. Such mixtures can lead to serotonin syndrome, which can kill, if severe enough. SSRI's are especially dangerous when used in combination with aMT, 2C-T-7, ayahuasca, pharmahuasca, other MAOI's, DXM, ibogaine, tramadol and 5-HTP. Be very careful.

Yeah, I know certain drugs don't mix well with SSRIs.
The psychedelics you mention are pretty atypical in that they cause monoamine release (or act as MAOIs). This is where the danger comes from.

Classic psychedelics (LSD, shrooms, DMT, 2C-x etc.) are straight up 5-HT agonists and are perfectly safe to take with SSRIs... only problem is they can weaken the trip.

 

[lamanogaucha]

I would not call the classical psychedelics "perfectly safe" when used in combination with SSRI's. While such psychedelics are less risky than those which happen to also be monoamine releasers, such combinations can still lead to serotonin syndrome.

However, you're correct regarding SSRI's having a tendency to weaken trips. On the other hand, it's important to keep in mind that they can potentiate them, too.

 

[Solipsis]

PCP (phencyclidine in the following table):
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/649843-Binding-data-for-popular-arylcyclohexamines

binds to SERT, the serotonin transporter.

It is not safe to mix serotonergic drugs like these, granted it is not that simple and people do use things like MDMA together with SSRI's, using PCP may be quite harmful. Especially when you have ASPD besides using SSRIs, you would do yourself a favor to avoid potent dissociatives like PCP.
And lamanogaucha is right: classical psychedelics are not exactly safe to mix with SSRI's and it is not true that they reliably just dull your trip. It can unexpectedly change or potentiate a trip and cause complications mentally. So take it really easy and if you can't avoid psychedelics (if I can use the term hallucinogens as a broader term).. really tone it down and stop using them when you observe that it makes your condition or functioning more problematic.

Arguably dissociatives can be worse when it comes to depersonalization and derealization, they can really wreak havoc on your sense of identity. I imagine that can do terrible things to ASPD, you don't want to isolate yourself too much. Stay a little grounded for your own good.

Trust me, I have experience with mental problems and using all sorts of drugs - you ought to want to take good care of yourself here. Also this is a harm reduction message board and it seems like our duty to warn you.

 

[AA357]

I would not call the classical psychedelics "perfectly safe" when used in combination with SSRI's. While such psychedelics are less risky than those which happen to also be monoamine releasers, such combinations can still lead to serotonin syndrome.

I have never heard of any cases of serotonin syndrome from SSRIs+LSD/psilocybin & co.

Arguably dissociatives can be worse when it comes to depersonalization and derealization, they can really wreak havoc on your sense of identity. I imagine that can do terrible things to ASPD, you don't want to isolate yourself too much. Stay a little grounded for your own good.

The same can be said for anybody, ASPD or not. I'm always careful with MXE - there is something very worrying about being so out of it and physically numb yet still able to walk around. It's not something I enjoy taking frequently or in huge doses TBH.

The propofol experience said it all. Contrary to what people like to believe, you don't have to be a complete nutjob to go loopy on anesthetics... it can and will happen to anybody at the right dose. I NEVER EVER lose my shit on psychedelics, weed, benzos or alcohol. The reason I fucked out on propofol wasn't because I have ASPD... it's because the drug robbed me of my consciousness (which is exactly what it's designed to do to a person) but the dose just wasn't quite strong enough to put me to sleep. This is a very dangerous and fucked up state for anybody to be in, regardless of personality.

 

[Solipsis]

Serotonin syndrome from LSD + SSRI's no, with SRI's like tramadol yes.

Still, the point is there are other unpleasant reactions to be had with SSRI's and psychedelics. People do seem to trip on them routinely, but I think I've read enough posts / heard enough to say that while the majority may experience dulled effects, it is certainly not with all. And it can turn into nasty interaction.

That dissociatives can cause anybody lots of problems is true but not a defense argument.

Just be real careful. Check the 3-MeO-PCP thread for example to see how many fuck-ups and hospitalizations people get, indeed even people who you think should know better. It is not to judge them, it can just be a very close call with dosing / redosing.