cj187
Bluelighter
I tried using sodium carbonate the last time I had some MET and didn't get good results. This time I wanted to try a different method and I already had the potassium hydroxide.
Tryptamines The Big & Dandy MET Thread
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Pfafffed
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Since freebasing has proven frustrating for do many people, why not nebulize? If dissolved in something like propylene glycol and used in a nebulizing vape rig, the temperature would not approach that where it might degrade. Onset might be slower than with true vaporization, but I don't think think that would be an issue since it doesn't have DMT's instatolerance issue. It wouldn't be necessary to freebase if used this way, I wouldn't imagine, especially if using a bowl-style instead of wicking nebulizer. Seems safer, too, as the risk of nasty accidental pyrolization byproducts would be greatly reduced.
Hilopsilo
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Its a cool idea, some quick research reveals its not very practical and can't find a single true success story doing that.
Seems all the other takes people didn't have success with sodium carbonate either, thats so strange that it would just not work well for some things. Wonder what the chemistry-logic behind this is?
Also, any idea why yours came out as a liquid? I'd just be concerned that liquid would be leftovers from the process if it started as a solid?
cj187
Bluelighter
It's not uncommon for freebase tryptamines to be a liquid. DPT freebase is usually liquid. I think it has to be exceptionally pure to crystallize. That's probably why nobody is selling it already in freebase form.
Pfafffed
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That's interesting. I've had luck with EPT, the only one I've attempted it with. While I don't read a lot of reports about it on the forums, I have read several articles in fairly well-known magazines where the use of DMT vape pens in public/concert/festival settings was mentioned. Since I got the idea from a friend overseas that had successfully it by suspending the DMT in a PG/VG solution, I just assumed that was the route most people were using. From reading the forums, it sounds like DMT is tricky, because of the instant tolerance and long time needed to get it into solution. It took me eighteen hours to get EPT in solution, if I remember right. If I experiment more, I'll post on it.
This is common. Heck, with many tryptamines it's more common to end up with a liquid freebase than a crystal. It's quite a pain. The liquid works fine, but it's a pain to weigh and work with, often just easier to use to make enhanced leaf imo.
Pfafffed
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Here's an anecdotal report of an adverse reaction that you can take for what it's worth. I've been meaning to write this up for a while. tl;dr vaporized MET fumarate may have caused lung irritation and bronchitis.
A friend and I were both pretty much completely recovered from what was either a bad cold or mild flu. Symptoms were largely gone, but our energy levels weren't where they normally were. We had been planning a psychedelic experience for the last two weekends, but had been sick/busy. On Sunday evening, we decided that the short-acting, lightweight, friendly, non-challenging experiences that many simple tryptamines like MET provide wouldn't put too much of a strain on us.
I have vaped MET fumarate (and several other tryptamine fumarates) several times before using a dual quartz coil vape pen to no ill effect, as has my friend. I'm aware that fumarate salts are unhealthy to vaporize, but I'm also aware that the actual amount of moles of maleic anhydride produced is quite small if not inconsequential. The one and only time my friend vaporized MET before, they mentioned to me that it felt bad in their lungs, a detail that I forgot about over the intervening months. I've come across a few other reports of vaporized MET feeling "caustic" or otherwise harsh when vaporized (would link to them, but that violates Bluelight rules.)
This time, I used a new vape pen with a bucket style heating element which my friend was unfamiliar with. After loading it up, they attempted to inhale before the powder had melted, and ended up inhaling and ingesting MET particulate. This engendered an instantaneous coughing fit, followed by the use of an inhaler. They again mentioned that it felt bad in their lungs, and that they would never vaporize it again. When I vaporized my portion, it felt more unpleasant than I remembered, but not especially noteworthy. I felt like this was probably due to the larger dose, caused by the marked increase in efficiency of the new vaporizer.
My experience started off familiar and pleasant, but quickly escalated into what felt similar to late stage sourness that I often get from mushrooms. Just a dark and oppressive, but nonthreatening heavy atmosphere--utterly unlike the warm positivity I had always experienced from MET before. This is possibly due to the increased dose, possibly due to some residual oxidized tryptamines in the bucket vaporizer, or maybe it just was what it was. I listened to some music and decided to go for a roll in the hay, which made for a strange experience (as the vibe was one of separation and alienation instead of warmth and connection.) The peak was over quickly and was quite manageable even though it was entirely unpleasant. My friend barely got above baseline, having inhaled rather than vaporized most of their dose.
The following day, my friend was very ill, far more ill than they had been the week prior. The first day was bad, the second day was worse--the fever, shaking, and chills made them consider going to the emergency room. Instead, they went to their GP and were prescribed strong antibiotics with a best guess diagnosis of bronchitis. The next day, they began to recover, eventually recovering ten days later. This was the sickest they have been in their life, apparently.
The next day, I found myself feeling like I needed to cough, my diaphragm squeezing little spasms of need, producing nothing to show for it. The same continued the next day, and the next day. Fourteen days later, I'm still feeling like I need to cough. I don't smoke or vape anything on a regular basis, so this is unusual.
Is any of this indicative of vaporizing MET fumarate as hazardous? Nope. Bronchitis follows a cold, and cold symptoms can persist for weeks after the infection is gone. Occam's razor would suggest that this is the more likely explanation. Still, the instantaneous sensitivity of my friend to the vapor both times and the dramatic turn of their health immediately afterward really stuck with me, and I'd be lying if I wasn't puzzled by my persistent cough. Alone, this still isn't significant, but before I ever with the other reports of adverse reactions to vaporizing MET on other forums, I thought I should make mention of it here just in case. For the life of me, I can't see why MET would be any worse than any other vaporizable tryptamine.
Needless to say, I won't be following through with my plans above to try it in a nebulizer - I'll stick to other tryptamines. It's a crying shame, too, because I quite liked vaporized MET and other ROAs haven't yet been worth the trouble or expense.
A friend and I were both pretty much completely recovered from what was either a bad cold or mild flu. Symptoms were largely gone, but our energy levels weren't where they normally were. We had been planning a psychedelic experience for the last two weekends, but had been sick/busy. On Sunday evening, we decided that the short-acting, lightweight, friendly, non-challenging experiences that many simple tryptamines like MET provide wouldn't put too much of a strain on us.
I have vaped MET fumarate (and several other tryptamine fumarates) several times before using a dual quartz coil vape pen to no ill effect, as has my friend. I'm aware that fumarate salts are unhealthy to vaporize, but I'm also aware that the actual amount of moles of maleic anhydride produced is quite small if not inconsequential. The one and only time my friend vaporized MET before, they mentioned to me that it felt bad in their lungs, a detail that I forgot about over the intervening months. I've come across a few other reports of vaporized MET feeling "caustic" or otherwise harsh when vaporized (would link to them, but that violates Bluelight rules.)
This time, I used a new vape pen with a bucket style heating element which my friend was unfamiliar with. After loading it up, they attempted to inhale before the powder had melted, and ended up inhaling and ingesting MET particulate. This engendered an instantaneous coughing fit, followed by the use of an inhaler. They again mentioned that it felt bad in their lungs, and that they would never vaporize it again. When I vaporized my portion, it felt more unpleasant than I remembered, but not especially noteworthy. I felt like this was probably due to the larger dose, caused by the marked increase in efficiency of the new vaporizer.
My experience started off familiar and pleasant, but quickly escalated into what felt similar to late stage sourness that I often get from mushrooms. Just a dark and oppressive, but nonthreatening heavy atmosphere--utterly unlike the warm positivity I had always experienced from MET before. This is possibly due to the increased dose, possibly due to some residual oxidized tryptamines in the bucket vaporizer, or maybe it just was what it was. I listened to some music and decided to go for a roll in the hay, which made for a strange experience (as the vibe was one of separation and alienation instead of warmth and connection.) The peak was over quickly and was quite manageable even though it was entirely unpleasant. My friend barely got above baseline, having inhaled rather than vaporized most of their dose.
The following day, my friend was very ill, far more ill than they had been the week prior. The first day was bad, the second day was worse--the fever, shaking, and chills made them consider going to the emergency room. Instead, they went to their GP and were prescribed strong antibiotics with a best guess diagnosis of bronchitis. The next day, they began to recover, eventually recovering ten days later. This was the sickest they have been in their life, apparently.
The next day, I found myself feeling like I needed to cough, my diaphragm squeezing little spasms of need, producing nothing to show for it. The same continued the next day, and the next day. Fourteen days later, I'm still feeling like I need to cough. I don't smoke or vape anything on a regular basis, so this is unusual.
Is any of this indicative of vaporizing MET fumarate as hazardous? Nope. Bronchitis follows a cold, and cold symptoms can persist for weeks after the infection is gone. Occam's razor would suggest that this is the more likely explanation. Still, the instantaneous sensitivity of my friend to the vapor both times and the dramatic turn of their health immediately afterward really stuck with me, and I'd be lying if I wasn't puzzled by my persistent cough. Alone, this still isn't significant, but before I ever with the other reports of adverse reactions to vaporizing MET on other forums, I thought I should make mention of it here just in case. For the life of me, I can't see why MET would be any worse than any other vaporizable tryptamine.
Needless to say, I won't be following through with my plans above to try it in a nebulizer - I'll stick to other tryptamines. It's a crying shame, too, because I quite liked vaporized MET and other ROAs haven't yet been worth the trouble or expense.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Thanks for sharing that account. I imagine DMT, which is quite caustic, could severely irritate or even slightly burn the lungs, especially if most of a dose was inhaled. I haven't seen MET, or know whether it's a freebase or salt you had, or whether a salt, if it was one, would also be caustic, but I can imagine such an event maybe causing some damage leading to infection or a worsening of infection.
daveydudely
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zomg I forgot how fun this place was. can't believe my login worked after a decade or whatever. you crazy burnouts.
anyway I recently tried MET for the first time, oddly enough that it took this long given my history. but here it is available so I gave it a try, smoked.
it comes on slowly compared to other substances, which is nice because you aren't overwhelmed. then it builds and builds over several minutes, mind-melting and physically orgasmic as rushes of pleasure shoot through your brain and body. even an hour later I feel them beyond the cannabis I smoked as well.
to be honest I think this would make a great booster for other substances the way I used 5MEO DMT or salvia previously, but BETTER.
no dark corners,which is both a plus and a minus depending upon your intent, but also feels very organic somehow: the simplicity of the tryp? I dunno.
anyway I recently tried MET for the first time, oddly enough that it took this long given my history. but here it is available so I gave it a try, smoked.
it comes on slowly compared to other substances, which is nice because you aren't overwhelmed. then it builds and builds over several minutes, mind-melting and physically orgasmic as rushes of pleasure shoot through your brain and body. even an hour later I feel them beyond the cannabis I smoked as well.
to be honest I think this would make a great booster for other substances the way I used 5MEO DMT or salvia previously, but BETTER.
no dark corners,which is both a plus and a minus depending upon your intent, but also feels very organic somehow: the simplicity of the tryp? I dunno.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Hah crazy you joined 11 years ago and this is your first post? 
I have yet to try MET, for some reason. It sounds really lovely though. Perhaps I should get some.
I have yet to try MET, for some reason. It sounds really lovely though. Perhaps I should get some.
Lostsoul2019
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Hey, I have been struggling to get my MET fumerate into freebase for smoking. Did you start with freebase or convert it. Looking for advice as the usual methods don?t seem to work for me and many others before.
Lostsoul2019
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Hey, went on a funny one and diliberately locked myself out my old account and changed the email address. I still have not had any luck. Maybe I will try your method which a tiny bit like you said. Previous attempts to get it to crash out may have been using too much liquid. I saw a red oil appear and then before I could collect it, it vanished.
OntarioGuy
Greenlighter
Hey guys, I have 1000 mgs (1 gram) of MET fumerate on the way. ive cruised through this thread and see some ppl had trouble freebasing MET? can I vape it as is in a meth bubble? I want to vape 100 mgs of it while peaking on oral 4 aco DMT.... how is this for IV use? i like IV tryptamines. Im thinking if i cant get it to vape in fumerate form, i may try the simple "Foily" method that locals around here use with cocaine hcl. they use sodium (bi) Carbonate with the drug, and a drop or two of h20 to form a paste, this paste is then vaped directly. an instant freebase im assuming... What is the best for converting tryptamines to bases? sodium hydroxide? ammonia like freebase cocaine is sometimes done? or baking soda like the crack form of freebase? Im interested in seeing what this compound does when vaped properly. Id like to avoid IV if possible
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I believe the reason for trouble vaping is that it comes as a fumarate salt and not a freebase. If this is the case, then it's readily dissolvable for IV/IM, but not efficient to vaporize. You'd need to convert it to freebase. I'd like someone else to chime in though as I'm speaking from memory and haven't tried any of it.
OntarioGuy
Greenlighter
Everyone says its lighter then nn DMT as well. Can i get a breakthrough on i..t? If i smoke 100 mgs or give myself an IV injection, surely i can push it too DMT levels? especially if i hit it peaking on oral 4 aco dmt.... and maybe hit a whippit if possible
cj187
Bluelighter
There was a new MET trip report added to Erowid not too long ago where they broke through from smoking a high dose. They said it's as strong as DMT if not stronger.
OntarioGuy
Greenlighter
Got my MET in the mail. Looks like Mars soil. rusty red fumarate powder......tried vaping it as is with no success. how is it orally? i might go that route. does it burn to sniff? I may just take a large dose of 4 aco dmt complimented with oral MET
Hilopsilo
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I think the main issue is lack of user reports of successfully converting MET to freebase, lots of cases of people having difficulties with the teks that work for DMT fumarate. Why? I'm not sure, but I bet its relatively simple chemistry.
Also, on the note of smoking/vaping fumarate, I posted this in another thread but I think it's useful here as well. I emailed psychonaut wiki about adding a warning about smoking fumarate (lots of posts about this around), and he was telling me that its actually misinformation, here is the reply:
"I have previously investigated this topic and concluded that there is unlikely to be any harm from conversion of fumarate into maleic anhydride upon vaporisation and inhalation and this conclusion has been seconded by qualified chemists with whom I have discussed this issue.
Assuming a typical dose of 20mg for most fumarate salt compounds that would be used through vaporisation, for the hemifumarate salt (the most likely form of this salt in this context), 20mg of the compound would include 4.2mg of fumarate, but for simplicity's sake and as a catch-all for cases where a 1:1 ratio may have been used lets say that would be 10mg of fumarate being added. If we assume a 100% conversion rate for all of the fumarate into maleic anhydride (which is extremely unlikely, but that's beside the point for this example) this would yield maleic anhydride levels which are above the safe exposure level for humans; however, maleic anhydride is readily hydrolysed into maleic acid in the presence of water, which is safe to the extent that it's even used as a sour flavouring, and thusly there is by a very large margin sufficient water present in the lungs to hydrolyse 10mg of maleic anhydride so therefore vaporisation of fumarate salts at levels that would be reasonably possible for any of the relevant compounds on PsychonautWiki should be of no concern."
REGARDLESS, fumarate is very difficult if not impossible (given the average users resources and dexterity) to vaporize properly. I read a very easy to understand explanation of why this is; freebase works because freebasing a chemical increases the range between the temperature at which the substance vaporizes and when the substance burns. Effectively, you get a way more generous window for error in getting the vaporization temperature right, avoiding burning it. Fumarate has an incredibly small window of temperatures at which is vaporizes readily and burns, so you need to be incredibly precise. On top of all this, fumarate from user reports is not pleasant at all to inhale, but this could just be because they are likely burning a lot.
Link please?!
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cj187
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daveydudely
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Xorkoth
Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
11 years ago and this is your first post?
I have yet to try MET, for some reason. It sounds really lovely though. Perhaps I should get some.
Heh heh, yes i deleted all my posts from those years ago, after April was busted by the DEA, believing I could erase all evidence of human consumption from the net.
Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
11 years ago and this is your first post?
I have yet to try MET, for some reason. It sounds really lovely though. Perhaps I should get some.
Heh heh, yes i deleted all my posts from those years ago, after April was busted by the DEA, believing I could erase all evidence of human consumption from the net.
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