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The Big & Dandy Ketamine Thread (Third Injection)

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kenyadigit? said:
Nice, thanks for all that info. Good HR post but a bit disappointing to read all this. I haven't used K all too much yet (first time was only in late December 2010) but I have taken a very strong liking to it. Though all this evidence is even greater motivation to keep my use fairly infrequent, I don't know how much I will be able to hold myself back if I become able to keep more of it around as I find ketamine to possess anxiolytic and antidepressant effects which lingered for even a few days after use.
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same here, i have been using ket since last december, and have found it very interesting to explore. tolerance has built rapidly though, and i can easily go thru a gram in a night now. hideously seductive stuff, with its short duration of effects and its great body buzz. nowadays i don't get the razorsharp lucid psychedelic effects so much anymore, the effects are much more "blunt" and messy/confusing. i should take a break to let my tolerance go down a bit..
 
Glad people are heeding the advice. :)

My impression, and this is completely unsubstantiated, is that what's going on is more of a constant disruption of the maintenance of neuronal architecture, which in heavy users leads to gradual brain atrophy in select areas. I'm not convinced that the mechanism is classical neurotoxicity, with apoptosis of neurons due to excitotoxicity - this, I believe, is the prevailing hypothesis. The deficits, however, could be due to a combination of things...

My pet hypothesis uses the premise that the brain is like a muscle - you use it or lose it - and if you take a drug that disrupts the brains ability to mentally exercise routinely, you'll naturally end up with deficits. Fortunately, if this is true, it means that the deficits are mostly, if not fully reversible.

Any opinions? This may be more ADD material, but just thought I'd voice my thoughts here.
 
i would imagine that many users of ketamine at high levels do not take, overall, very good care of themselves. like what happens to chronic users of many drugs/substances. i would hazard to guess nutrition, exercise, rest and all the other stuff that tends to make one healthy most likely is not a key focus point for a majority of the users/abusers and this could taint the pool. maybe not
 
^Good point.

Regarding the hypothesis I mentioned in my last post, I hold a somewhat similar one for the connection between heavy marijuana use and the development of psychosis. It's clear that marijuana is not neurotoxic, but it does seem to often lead to apathy and listlessness when used long-term. My thought is that if one were to come home from work every night, get stoned out of his/her gourd, and just sit idly in front of the t.v. and vegetate, there has to be some kind of brain atrophy taking place. In general, reduced social interaction seems to lead to reduced capacity for social interaction. It's a vicious cycle. The opposite is true when you train your brain with a repetitive task. Become a taxi driver in NYC, and the regions of your brain responsible for spatial orientation and mental mapping will become more robust.

When you step away from the typical cues that give life a sense of order, it naturally becomes more disordered. I'm not saying that marijuana is a direct cause of psychosis, rather I'm hypothesizing that heavy use is capable of increasing the chance that latent mental illness - which may or may not have ever manifested - will surface in vulnerable individuals. Initially, what happens is that heavy marijuana use impairs the ability of the brain to exercise itself and keep itself sharp. When used chronically, this may weaken the brain's ability to keep up with a typical life routine, resulting in additional stress accompanied by low motivation (see the stress-vulnerability model of psychosis). Lastly, the fact that marijuana can incite paranoia probably also plays a role.
 
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Note that in the Discussion section of the paper they themselves admit lack of cross-matching in the subject groups for Tobacco use as well as Education, both of which could correlate to reduced "grey matter", if for instance the vast majority of frequent K users are heavy smokers with low education levels as compared to the non-K users, so the causality of the results are not exacly crystal clear.

On another Ketamine-related research topic:

just for kicks I did this search:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...oq=&pbx=1&fp=c820984782c38d0&biw=1602&bih=778

Among the result was this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11818769

In which we read that in general "isomers induce less tiredness and cognitive impairment" than racemic, and specifically, that S-isomer users had less decline in concentration and were "more brave." Don't often see medical research studies evaluating "bravery"!!! HAHA!

RESULTS:
Transient increases in blood pressure, heart rate, and catecholamines were similar after administration of all drugs. At 20 min after injection, subjects felt less decline in concentration and were more brave after S(+)- than racemic ketamine. They reported being less lethargic but more out-of-control after R(-)- than racemic ketamine. Ketamine isomers induced less drowsiness, less lethargy, and less impairment in clustered subjective cognitive capacity than racemic ketamine for the 60-min study. Objective concentration capacity [test time, S(+): 25.4 +/- 15.2 s, R(-): 34.8 +/- 18.4 s, racemic ketamine: 40.8 +/- 20.8 s, mean +/- SD] and retention in primary memory [test time, S(+): 4.6 +/- 1.2 s, R(-): 4.2 +/- 1.4 s, racemic ketamine: 4.0 +/- 1.4 s, mean +/- SD] declined less after S(+)- than either R(-)- or racemic ketamine at 1 min. At 5 min, immediate recall, anterograde amnesia, retention in primary memory, short-term storage capacity, and intelligence quotient were less reduced after the isomers than racemic ketamine. Speed reading and central information flow decreased less after S(+)- than racemic ketamine.
CONCLUSIONS:
Early after injection, ketamine isomers induce less tiredness and cognitive impairment than equianalgesic small-dose racemic ketamine. In addition, S(+)-ketamine causes less decline in concentration capacity and primary memory.
 
DwayneHoover said:
Note that in the Discussion section of the paper they themselves admit lack of cross-matching in the subject groups for Tobacco use as well as Education, both of which could correlate to reduced "grey matter", if for instance the vast majority of frequent K users are heavy smokers with low education levels as compared to the non-K users, so the causality of the results are not exacly crystal clear.
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I mostly agree. As I mentioned above, the lack of matching for education and the history of polydrug use in the ketamine group are definitely weaknesses of the study, but they're not fatal flaws. Failing to match for tobacco use is less of a concern to me. They clearly state, "we did not find any correlations between years of age, years of education, age of starting ketamine use, and quantity (g) of ketamine use/time and gray matter volume of ROI regions." But you're right, there could have been a small correlation (p>0.05), for example, between years of education and gray matter volume that they chose not to report between that could skew the results.

But, the fact that both the duration of ketamine use and estimated total lifetime ketamine consumption were both associated with decreased gray matter volume is compelling evidence if you ask me.
 
Just don't use it too often and you'll be fine.

Anyway, I just finished reading "The Scientist" and I'm wondering if anyone here has had John Lily-esque experiences on ketamine? Before I tried ketamine I was hoping to have experiences like that, where I would encounter beings and things but nothing like that ever happens for me. I move through strange worlds but I don't seem to learn much, I would say it's more recreational for me than anything although not at all euphoric, or recreational in a traditional sense.
 
DwayneHoover said:
Note that in the Discussion section of the paper they themselves admit lack of cross-matching in the subject groups for Tobacco use as well as Education, both of which could correlate to reduced "grey matter", if for instance the vast majority of frequent K users are heavy smokers with low education levels as compared to the non-K users, so the causality of the results are not exacly crystal clear.

On another Ketamine-related research topic:

just for kicks I did this search:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...oq=&pbx=1&fp=c820984782c38d0&biw=1602&bih=778

Among the result was this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11818769

In which we read that in general "isomers induce less tiredness and cognitive impairment" than racemic, and specifically, that S-isomer users had less decline in concentration and were "more brave." Don't often see medical research studies evaluating "bravery"!!! HAHA!

RESULTS:
Transient increases in blood pressure, heart rate, and catecholamines were similar after administration of all drugs. At 20 min after injection, subjects felt less decline in concentration and were more brave after S(+)- than racemic ketamine. They reported being less lethargic but more out-of-control after R(-)- than racemic ketamine. Ketamine isomers induced less drowsiness, less lethargy, and less impairment in clustered subjective cognitive capacity than racemic ketamine for the 60-min study. Objective concentration capacity [test time, S(+): 25.4 +/- 15.2 s, R(-): 34.8 +/- 18.4 s, racemic ketamine: 40.8 +/- 20.8 s, mean +/- SD] and retention in primary memory [test time, S(+): 4.6 +/- 1.2 s, R(-): 4.2 +/- 1.4 s, racemic ketamine: 4.0 +/- 1.4 s, mean +/- SD] declined less after S(+)- than either R(-)- or racemic ketamine at 1 min. At 5 min, immediate recall, anterograde amnesia, retention in primary memory, short-term storage capacity, and intelligence quotient were less reduced after the isomers than racemic ketamine. Speed reading and central information flow decreased less after S(+)- than racemic ketamine.
CONCLUSIONS:
Early after injection, ketamine isomers induce less tiredness and cognitive impairment than equianalgesic small-dose racemic ketamine. In addition, S(+)-ketamine causes less decline in concentration capacity and primary memory.
Click to expand...

I think it is diffidently true that S(+)- can increase a persons "bravery".One the last times i got my hands on some was a few months ago. Normally i am usually socially akward on racemic ketamine, i wont put effort into making conversations with peope i dont know well.

But when i did S isomer at a party a few months ago i was very social. At the party was a (fucking bangin) girl that I've really liked and wanted for awhile now. Now even sober im not the best at getting with girls, but while i was doing the S isomer at the party i was able to make conversation and all around hangout with her much better then i normally am. It helped enough to the point that i ended up hangout and making out wit her all night (first time i ever kissed her). After that night i realized that K made me much more brave and make it easy to put moves on girls and made me more comfortable in social situations. I continued to notice it over the course of about a month that i had access to buys S(+)- isomer.

Then a month after that i bought some average (racemic) ketamine and went to a party (same group/scene of people basicly) and pretty much tried to do the same thing i did the month before when i had S(+)- isomer. It didnt work nearly as well and i kept having trouble focusing on what i was trying to do.

but anyway inconclusion, in my opinion, S(+)- ketamine is awesome for getting with girls haha :p
 
Anyone having trouble keeping the nasal airways open should try Vicks Sinex Soother.

3274917.jpg


It works miracles and will clear a blocked k-nose instantly. If that product's not available where you are, then what you need to look for is oxymetazoline hydrochloride, Vicks has it at 0.5mg/l.
 
shishigami said:
I don't trust stuff in pills but Ketamine can come in pills. Personally I wouldn't touch it just like I don't touch Ecstasy.
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Ketamine is extremely uncommon in pills, an oral dose with k is much higher so it's harder to use - so for a dealer, less profit and more k used up. You wont find it in any pharm pressed pills either (some people appear to think this) because the recreational dose of ketamine is much lower as opposed to the anaesthetic dose.
I recommend checking out Pill Reports, you'll find things aren't as bad as they seem with all the anti-drug propaganda leaflets, there isn't really rat poison in your pills. 8)
 
i dont like to snort bumps.. i always put about .3 in a line and sab :D
 
is there anyone that uses K for depression or to abstain from hard drugs? im talking about low dose IV infusion.
 
its such a shame that i had a source for vials for cheap but things didnt work out. preparing powder for IV solution should be ok assuming its not cut, right?
 
well the experiment is on. procured 500mg/10ml vials of racemic ketamine. the thing is that the dosage they cite in studies for depression is .5mg/kg....doesnt that seem a lot if it is only supposed to be a sub threshold dose. this is an IV dose. for someone 160lbs that is 37.5mg of K shot directly into your bloodstream. maybe its because they are doing a slow drip over a period of 1 hr????? to inject that much at once seems to be a lot. i was thinking more like 12.5mg or 25mg at the very most.

i am thinking IM is a better option but i am so used to admin drugs IV and i have insulin syringes, not IM syringes. any thoughts are appreciated. thank you.
 
man, i would think there would be more discussion of K on bluelight...and this is a mega thread. anyone know of a forum where there is a lot of activity in discussion of K?
 
maybe alt.drugs.ketamine? ha ha ha just kidding. you should research methoxetamine.
 
alt.drugs.ketamine is more for.....eh im not even going to say anything.

i am truly surprised that K is not discussed here as it seems EVERY fucking drug imaginable has a megathread. i know its still popular in the UK but maybe since the rave scene died in the US so did K?

i mean ive seen several posts on PCP and nothing on K. DXM and PCP are like the bastard cousins of ketamine. i dont know.

methoxetamine is an RC as far as i know and i have heard it to be very very dirty compared to ketamine. i have had bad luck with things that are not in standard doses approved by the FDA, eg phenazepam. i know methoxetamine is supposed to be an analog to ketamine but i would figure it would be like lsa compared to lsd.
 
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