The Big & Dandy Ketamine Thread (Third Injection)

[burn out]

I tripped on k last night, several injections. I don't even know where to begin regarding what I experienced. It's so difficult to make sense of it though. When I read reports on eworid, or articles about ketamine and metaprogramming, I find it hard to relate to what people are saying. For me, it seems difficult to take anything lasting back from the experience. The whole thing, is like a dream almost and it comes up as a jumbled mess in my memory with the insights fading away. I also don't seem able to control the experience very well at all while it is happening, unlike some articles I've read which suggest that it can be directed. Maybe I just need more experience? I'm also curious about higher doses, I started with 120 mg I.M. last night and I don't have a tolerance. Can anyone tell me what say 150 mg would be like in comparison?

 

[roxyoxy]

K and hydromorphone

I dicovered a while back that Hydromorphone and Ketamin are a lovely combination but be careful because the two alone are powerful but when combined it makes a whole new demon I hit about 2cc of hydromorphone (not sure about concentration but I had a high tolerance at the time) and 1cc of ketamin (both were veterinary grade but again not sure of mg/ml) anyway as soon as it hit me I hit the floor..lol (PS: Don't try while standing dumb ass) lol.. the feeling was beyond euphoria and never had experience like it since then. I can no longer find good shit around here for a few reasons but I LOVE Dilaudid and can't wait to get insurance and talk a Dr. into giving me some

 

[MescalitoBandito]

Ketamine potentiates all opiates, just so long as you don't overpower the opiate with the k.

 

[Gamun]

From what I understand S+ Ketamine is the more psychedelic one, the one which passes through your system faster, leaving less damage presumably, and with reportedly better overall moods afterwards. The trip is better too. Less foggy-brain; more deep wonder.

S+ is what my friends and I had for a few months, when I first started doing it. It was easily the most magical time of my life. Now, it's gone, and replaced with racemic (half and half maybe) or R-

It's a disaster! I think we were spoiled. That stuff is sacred, and now all I get is sedated, for the most part.

How rare is S+? Like 5000 people want it and no one's manufacturing it? wtf. It's like I had my super power taken away. It seems to us that the two isomers are just different drugs. Do you guys do racemic stuff? Am I ever gonna see S+ again? It's been quite a search for some time now..

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

ketamine and bladder damage

I have done quite a lot ketamine lately: on most weekends, I had home sessions where I used about half a gram of racemic ketamine over the course of an evening. I have now come to the conclusion that this is too much for both tolerance reasons and risk of bladder damage, so I will cut down my consume a lot in the future. what do you consider a reasonable and safe consume muster for ketamine? probably once a month?

on s-ketamine vs. racemic ketamine: I much prefer the former one, since I consider it more psychedelic. now my educated guess is that both stereoisomers are similarly bad to the bladder, so could using s-ketamine be somehow healthier on the bladder than use of racemic ketamine?

 

[Delsyd]

to be honest, 1 gram over the weekend sounds completely reasonable to me.

The bladder damage reports are from people using multiple grams a day, everyday, for extended periods of time.

Of course cutting down your use to once a month will help with tolerance issues and to keep the experience somewhat new.

 

[bighouse911]

a gram of ket at the weekend doesn't constitute heavy use at all imo

 

[suckerbunnie]

Yeah, don't worry about it. At my worst I have gone through as much as 8 grams within 48 hours straight But I have since given up ketamine in favor of methoxetamine. Better material in every way and it sure as hell don't take much, even for a k-feind/hardhead like me

 

[CoReCoNTAX]

I have been doing K for almost 6 years on and off now, my K tolerance is ridiculous and i find myself never able to K hole (i have snorted half gram lines but had no luck) I only snort it and am not prepared to inject, however i was wondering if there is any way to potentiate the more psychedelic effects of K? its got to the point were its almost not worth the money, for me its all about the k hole! i miss it! any suggestions??

 

[CoReCoNTAX]

Yeah, don't worry about it. At my worst I have gone through as much as 8 grams within 48 hours straight But I have since given up ketamine in favor of methoxetamine. Better material in every way and it sure as hell don't take much, even for a k-feind/hardhead like me

Did you find you could get closer to a k hole using methoxetamine? I have never used it before.

 

[suckerbunnie]

Whole different animal. There is no methoxetamine hole. It's more like a tunnel or a corridor

 

[CoReCoNTAX]

lol sounds interesting might have to give it a go

 

[Cloudy]

Considering the NMDA receptors populate the hippocampus(1), it shouldn't be to surprising to see loss in memory, or difficulty of retaining all of the memory of the experience.

Like DXM, I find ketamine to hard to retain the same level of enjoyment, or excitement out of the experience from one high dose experience to another. Even though sometimes the experiences turns out less than I'd hope for, its still a relaxing experience, with wonderful aftereffects lasting up to a week I find.



(1) (deals with various forms of memory or memory processing, including long term, short term, and memory formation)

 

[teh1buck]

Quick, does ketamine come in pill form? I've never done it, never had access to it, but a friend of mine said he's getting ketamine pills from a girl in Dallas because some chick has a script for them. I haven't replied back to the kid, but I didn't think K was something you could ever get as a script, only used in veterinary clinics and hospitals. Though, the person he's getting it from could be lying, people lie about the origin of their drugs all the time, especially dealers.

what should I do? I would really like to try K, and I finally might have access to it, just seems iffy

 

[shishigami]

I don't trust stuff in pills but Ketamine can come in pills. Personally I wouldn't touch it just like I don't touch Ecstasy.

 

[psood0nym]

This was posted by Dondante in the methoxetamine thread, but it also belongs here:

I’m sure this will get buried quickly among comments about how MXE represents Huxley’s soma or the Greek’s kykeon, but I think it’s still worth mentioning that long-term use will likely lead negative consequences as with ketamine and other NMDA antagonists when used chronically. Below is a link to a new study demonstrating that chronic ketamine use results in reduced brain matter in the frontal cortex.

Liao Y, Tang J, Corlett PR, Wang X, Yang M, Chen H, Liu T, Chen X, Hao W, Fletcher PC. Reduced dorsal prefrontal gray matter after chronic ketamine use. Biol Psychiatry. 2011, 69(1):42-8.

In the spirit of harm reduction, please use dissociatives sparingly.

The bad news is back in k-tards. When you're done scrubbing the leaked pee stains out of your pants take a look. I kid, but I'm also glad I never went too nuts with ketamine... There's no comforting uncertainty about differences between rats and us anymore. This isn't necessarily the same thing that William White's depressed ramblings were referring to, but it's still brain damage in humans from a dissociative -- and the one regarded as most safe at that. See you, space cowboys.

 

[butterfly118]

I think I was doing it wrong...

 

[psood0nym]

What's considered "chronic ketamine use" can be a very subjective thing though, so actual figures would mean more when taking that article into consideration. Just my .02

I found a source for the full text of the paper here. It's frustrating that they talk about the average estimated lifetime use in grams yet I can't find any numbers for that in the paper. The average usage time for an abuser was reported to be 41 months through, and all participants reportedly met the DSM-IV criteria for lifetime ketamine dependence (which can mean different things depending on which criteria they satisfied to be included). In any case, they found that the longer a participant had been abusing ketamine, the greater the gray matter reduction in the left superior frontal cortex. Gray matter reductions in frontal areas are found in addicts of many stripes, though. I find the cognitive behavioral test data more telling, actually:

We observed overall deficits in executive function in ketamine
use group with the Digit Symbol Test, Trail Making Test A, and
Stroop Color-Word Test. The ketamine group filled in fewer symbols
in the Digit Symbol Test (mean symbols for ketamine use group vs.
control group: 65.0 15.84 vs. 80.2 15.90, p .000) and spent
much more time to finish the Stroop Color Test (mean seconds for
ketamine use group vs. control group: 172.8 53.91 vs. 132.2
36.67, p.000) and Stroop Word Test (mean seconds for ketamine
use group vs. control group: 66.115.52 vs. 54.410.66, p.000)
than the control group (detailed information was presented separately).
Although there is no statistically significant difference between
the two groups in the Trail Making Test A (p .199), the
ketamine use group spent more time to finish the Trail Making Test
A than the control group (39.7 11.65 vs. 36.6 10.35).

The section on the study's limitations is worth checking out, but I'd still say this is a good indication that if you're using ketamine they way I've heard a lot of people on Bluelight say they do you're probably doing significant harm. If you use it at the frequency most use serotonergic psychedelics I'm sure you're fine, though.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Be sure to see the "Discussion" section at the end of the paper, which is rather lengthy and detailed, and seems to suggest the shrinkage is caused by free radical damage, meaning that antioxidants taken before/with/after the K might prevent the brain shrink effect, or at least reduce it perhaps?

 

[Dondante]

The fMRI data is no doubt damning evidence, but I don't think it's necessarily breaking news that heavy ketamine use has detrimental effects on the brain. It's fairly well established that heavy ketamine use for extended periods results in cognitive impairment. A larger study found that frequent ketamine users displayed cognitive impairment and increased rates of depression, but occasional users (1-2 times per month) did not have detectable differences from abstinent controls. As psoodonym pointed out, the new fMRI study replicated this correlation in subjects with ketamine dependence and use over a range of 1-10 years:

"We observed overall deficits in executive function in ketamine use group with the Digit Symbol Test, Trail Making Test A, and Stroop Color-Word Test."

The results of the fMRI data are pretty impressive though, and show fairly definitively (for a retrospective study) that heavy ketamine use results in a decrease in brain matter in some areas.

"The duration (months) of ketamine use was negatively correlated with gray matter volume in left superior frontal cortex (p=0.011) and right middle frontal cortex (p=.009). The estimated total lifetime ketamine consumption was negatively correlated with gray matter volume in left superior frontal cortex (p=.022)."

Overall, despite being a retrospective study, the results are fairly convincing that ketamine is the culprit. That said, there are some minor problems with the study and a few questions that remain unanswered. First of all, the ketamine-dependent group had lower levels of education, higher rates of depression, and relatively high rates of polydrug use (including MDMA, methamphetamine), though they were not dependent at the time of the study. Though they state that these factors were not significantly associated with cognitive impairment or reduced brain volume, there could be some association (p>0.05) that would confound the results. As far as unanswered questions, it remains unclear whether or not the impairment is partially or fully reversible. Perhaps, after months or years of abstaining, there is some recovery in brain size and cognitive function. Also, despite the compelling conclusions, the study says nothing about the neurotoxicity/Olney's lesion debate and it does not necessarily apply to occasional ketamine users.

In summary, my advice is that if you're going to use ketamine, use it sparingly.