Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy DOM Thread

[Help?!?!]

TheBlackPirate is very obviously biased against DOx compounds, so it's not really a surprise.

Truth! Don't want to hate, but he's very similar to SteamboatPhilSR...

DOM is still one of the DOx's I must try, and really want too(besides DOEF!)...it's crazy this one has eluded me for so long!8(

 

[TheBlackPirate]

^Why does me disagreeing with an idea make me biased? Furthermore why attack me rather than my argument. The evidence supports my belief DOX chemicals have much less safety than LSD. My only goals are protecting novice psychedelic users from potential risks and protecting the reputation of psychedelic medicines. People overdosing on fake acid with multi-day durations or having peripheral amputations from accidental overdoses could create confusion prohibitionist governments could exploit in an attempt at keeping psychedelic medicines illegal. In giving my honest opinion supported with evidence I am attempting keeping both psychedelic users and the reputation of psychedelics safe.

I apologize if y'all disagree with my goal.

I am only attempting keeping history from repeating itself as mentioned here.

 

[Help?!?!]

No, it's just way it's gone about that's a bit wonky. Your much better at it than Steamboat, honestly. It's just perpetually obvious that the DOx's are clearly more dangerous than LSD or psilo, anyone who can't realize that by quite simple/easy observations doesn't have any business working with these chemicals in the first place, IMO. Your comparing DOx's though with two of the safest psychedelic chemicals known to man, which is fairly unfair. Realistically though a fair majority of psychedelics are relatively safe(DOx included), as long as there used with proper basic safety protocols... Comparing them to other drugs, surviving 120 or so mgs when an active dose nicely active dose can be one....could just be luck or could be a curve showing a pretty damn fair margin of safety. Even though it was spread out and tolerance was at play, you'd have to have serious eye problems to mistake 50mgs for something like five, as there's a pretty clear difference there(so as long as you use the right equipment, stay rational, and don't have unfortunate things like blacking out on benzos during consumption...you'll be safe, though obviously anything can happen at anytime...). Yes it's sad that everyone and their mothers have acess to these compounds, but that's just reality. Like how some people will never use any compound safely because they have no care for themselves or others. These people die, be it from mischance, misfortune, bad luck, stupidity, Darwinism, or whatever you would choose to call it....

I truly respect the spreading of a proper message on safety, but there's a time, and place! I apologize for that post, I had misread trying to speed read your post. I thought you were debatibg the safety again(not a bad thing but do it in the right thread, not that you didn't!). I find it proper to debate these things, but in the proper channels...so sorry for off topic junk!

PN, if you have a chance, it'd be awesome if you could write a brief summary about your experience with DOM or a TR! Thanks!

 

[IamMe90]

^Why does me disagreeing with an idea make me biased? Furthermore why attack me rather than my argument. The evidence supports my belief DOX chemicals have much less safety than LSD. My only goals are protecting novice psychedelic users from potential risks and protecting the reputation of psychedelic medicines. People overdosing on fake acid with multi-day durations or having peripheral amputations from accidental overdoses could create confusion prohibitionist governments could exploit in an attempt at keeping psychedelic medicines illegal. In giving my honest opinion supported with evidence I am attempting keeping both psychedelic users and the reputation of psychedelics safe.

I apologize if y'all disagree with my goal.

I am only attempting keeping history from repeating itself as mentioned here.

I've already quoted a post that you made, wherein you (seemingly) deliberately misrepresented what someone else said in an effort to further what you already believe to be the case; namely, that DOx drugs are dangerous. Unsurprisingly, you didn't reply to that post.

That post, by the way, was contained in this topic: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/763639-130mg-of-DOC-alongside-high-doses-of-other-psychedelics

In this topic, you said that someone experienced worrying symptoms from an "estimated" dose of 4mg. This was complete bullshit, as the user which you shamefully paraphrased and misrepresented specifically said, and I quote, "don't even try and eyeball DOC. I did."


That is basically one of the most blatant demonstrations of bias I could imagine. Misrepresenting what other people say, publicly, in order to further a narrative is being biased.

And by the way, no one disagrees with your "goal;" we all try to arbitrate harm reduction. But making comparisons to NBOMe drugs is simply not backed by any sort of evidence, and reeks of hysterics.

People have had limbs amputated at massive overdoses. Some people have died. This is not really surprising. We've witnessed this happen with 2c-e, 2c-t-7, and various other phenethylamine psychedelics. What we haven't seen is people dying randomly from normal doses of DOC, or DOM. I'm confident that you are unable to provide me with documentation of multiple cases of this happening. Until you can (which, again, I'm fairly confident you can't) comparing this class of drugs to the NBOMEs is deliberately incorrect. If it's not deliberate, then you're just ignorant and/or stupid. Sorry, that's just how I see it.

 

[MSK]

Can anyone make comparision of DOM vs DOC? I was, on the past, a DOChead. I would take 2-3mg every week, some weeks more than once. I choosed it over LSD everytime! But there have passed some years since I took my last dose of DOC. Now I've got a job, and a lot of respect for the substance, and can't find a fucking weekend to spare so many hours in psychedelicland. But I've got some suposed 5mg DOM labelled tabs that I want to try on a festival next month, and I was wandering how would DOM compare to DOC, since I already know DOC very well!

 

[Xorkoth]

I find DOM to be more transparent in the body than DOC. DOC has that wonderful warm glow that reminds me of mescaline kind of, and I found this lacking in DOM. DOM felt good, but much lighter in the body (also less bodyload/potential for negative body feelings). DOC is more euphoric by a lot (for me in my experiences anyway), and also more visual. DOM is shorter in duration. Also I find that DOC produces a plateau stage after the strongest effects that is uniquely wonderful and euphoric, which I have not found in any of the other DOXs, including DOM.

I prefer DOC but DOM is a nice drug too. I want to try it again to get a better impression, because I just did it a handful of times during a period of intense psychedelic (ab)use, so I had a lot of tolerance, but I was also using DOC during that time period so I can make a direct comparison still.

 

[Whitefox]

Thanks for the summary Xorkoth. I too love DOC, but have just got my hands on some DOM and having read your previous posts regarding DOC I fully trust your judgement!
Just a quick question: you mention a shorter duration; how much are we talking? I find that with DOC I can easily spend 16 hours just enjoying everything it has to offer; would DOM be closer to 12 hours or so in your experience? I do tend to extend the trips with quite a bit of weed once I'm over the peak.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I think DOM's duration is closer to mescaline, probably a little longer. Longer than LSD still, but by hour 12 is was pretty much down, if I recall. With DOC, 16 hours in and I'm still well within the plateau stage, sometimes I can't sleep for 24 hours.

 

[Whitefox]

Sounds good. No need to arise at 7am in order to prepare for dosing on DOM then! Much as I love DOC, you really have to have 2 full clear days in order to really enjoy the experience and recover. As I reach middle-age, money isn't the problem any more, and time has become invaluable.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah DOC certainly is a time commitment. I assume I won't sleep that night unless I wake up early and take it, and even then, I don't get much. Amazing drug though. I prefer it to DOM for sure, but they're both good. DOM is lighter on the system.

 

[Whitefox]

I've got a free weekend coming up in a few weeks so I'll give it a blast then. Aiming for 5mg which I'm hoping will be enough to give me a good idea of what it is like.

 

[MSK]

Thank you, what i was looking for I'll give it a try for sure and came back reporting and comparing with DOC as well

 

[TheBlackPirate]

I will say this: as Shulgin said, DOX are dyed-in-the-wool psychedelics. They're deep, they're visual, they're long, they're physical, and they're harrowing. if you abuse them, you notice.

Alexander Shulgin said those words? Could I have the source?

It's not a quote. It's a paraphrase.

Then Shuglin actually didn't say most of those words. Most of those words didn't sound the same as Shuglin. Please let me explain my thinking on this issue.

The DOX chemicals were nearly the earliest chemicals Shuglin researched (~1960s). Eventually Shulgin learned the 2C-X group of chemicals were both safer and had much shorter durations of action. With this observation Shuglin transitioned from researching the DOX chemicals and began researching 2C-X chemicals. This direct quote explains this here:

The obvious step to go was take off the methyl group and get away from the amphetamine chain. So I took the methyl group off and that gave 2C-B and then 2C-I, a host of other materials in the same ilk, that was just a beautiful rich collection of compounds. Many of them not as potent as the amphetamines but shorter lived and much more benign and much more friendly than the corresponding amphetamines.

The recording of this lecture is available on the web.


In 1991 the Shulgins published PiHKAL: A Chemical Love Story documenting this reseach. The Evolution of Shulgins research eventually moved away from penethylamines all together and began focusing on tryptamines as is evident with the 1997 publication of TiHKAL: The continuation. This focus on tryptamines continued. At the end of his life Shulgin was working on N-allylated tryptamines including 5-MeO-DALT and 5-MeO-MALT as was mentioned in this link.

Here's an entry explaining Shulgins research was focused on tryptmaines towards the end of his life. This is from his next book. This book wasn't completed in his final days.

Thus, my perspective is the result of the fact Shuglin stopped researching DOX chemicals decades ago because of the duration and excessive risks associated with DOX chemicals' use.

 

[Whitefox]

In 1991 the Shulgins published PiHKAL: A Chemical Love Story documenting this reseach. The Evolution of Shulgins research eventually moved away from penethylamines all together and began focusing on tryptamines as is evident with the with the 1997 publication of TiHKAL: The continuation. This focus on tryptamines continued. At the end of his life Shulgin was working on N-allylated tryptamines including 5-MeO-DALT and 5-MeO-MALT as was mentioned in this link.

Here's an entry explaining Shulgins research was focused on tryptmaines towards the end of his life. This book wasn't this book wasn't completed in his final days.

Thus, my perspective is the result of the fact Shuglin stopped researching DOX chemicals decades ago because of the duration and excessive risks associated with DOX chemicals' use.

You make a fair point about InterestingFACT's paraphrasing not being an accurate quote and then go on to try and prove your point by using exactly the same method! You can contend all you like by trying to read into words what is not actually there!
My contention would be that Shulgin simply loved exploring different chemicals as evidenced by his Extensions and Commentary sections. Yes, he moved on to other chemicals, but I've always read it as him being incredibly hungry to explore pyschedelic possibilities rather than writing off any particular group. Reading PiHKAL and TiHKAL it is clear which substances he doesn't bother with (the inactive) and those that are genuinely unpleasant. He was a scientist through and through and it was a logical extension to explore the Triptamines having already explored a huge amount of Phens.

Either way, it's all beside the point. I get that you had a bad experience on DOX at some point. I also get the fact that some guy had some toes removed following a huge overdose (in combination with a huge quantity of other drugs). I read what is out there and weigh up the evidence; I'm happy taking DOC and am happy to take DOM. Not to bothered about the others in the DOX group, but not because there is anything that scares me, rather I think I'll stick to the two I know I like.

On the other hand, I wouldn't touch the nBomes with a barge pole. There is genuine danger in those as evidenced by the deaths on normal recreational doses even taken in isolation. I'd like to think that I won't go into a benzo blackout and down over 100mg of DOC, but if I did then I would expect there to be serious consequences.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Then Shuglin actually didn't say most of those words. Most of those words didn't sound the same Shuglin. Please let me explain my thinking on this issue.

The DOX chemicals were nearly the earliest chemicals Shuglin researched (~1960s). Eventually Shulgin learned the 2C-X group of chemicals were both safer and had much shorter durations of action. With this observation Shuglin transitioned from researching the DOX chemicals and began researching 2C-X chemicals. This direct quote explains this here:


The recording of this lecture is available on the web.


In 1991 the Shulgins published PiHKAL: A Chemical Love Story documenting this reseach. The Evolution of Shulgins research eventually moved away from penethylamines all together and began focusing on tryptamines as is evident with the with the 1997 publication of TiHKAL: The continuation. This focus on tryptamines continued. At the end of his life Shulgin was working on N-allylated tryptamines including 5-MeO-DALT and 5-MeO-MALT as was mentioned in this link.

Here's an entry explaining Shulgins research was focused on tryptmaines towards the end of his life. This book wasn't this book wasn't completed in his final days.

Thus, my perspective is the result of the fact Shuglin stopped researching DOX chemicals decades ago because of the duration and excessive risks associated with DOX chemicals' use.

I suspected you were going for the "gotcha."

The paraphrase was one clause, included in the same sentence as the attribution. That paraphrase was accurate, and in fact quite nearly word-for-word, despite coming from memory.

Your attempt to insinuate otherwise is immature at best. Please move on to substantive issues.

Speaking of which, your claims about Shulgin's "evolution" towards phenethylamines have been discussed and widely discredited in the past--the typical issue with your posts thus rears its ugly head once more. As I and others have previously stated, Shulgin was a chemist first: it was the "obvious step" to remove the a-methyl group because of the open question of activity and potency conferred by presence or absence of that group. It was thus a chemically logical substitution to manipulate.

And all of this has no bearing on the patently obvious truth that, as a rule, alpha-desmethyl phenethylamines are less harsh on the body than their alpha-methylated homologues. This statement does not render alpha-methyl homologues valueless or even inherently dangerous, as you suggest. Need I remind you that Pihkal was published at once, as a single volume? Obviously he believed that the many amphetamine compounds he worked with were worthy of the praise that he heaped upon them--and a preference, if in fact such a preference even existed, for 2c-X compounds does not discredit this praise.

In fact, it's worth mentioning that DOM specifically was one of Shulgin's "magical half dozen."

 

[Whitefox]

Shulgin's preference for 2C-B was noted in the article. However, it is a subjective preference and doesn't lend any weight to the theory that he specifically moved on to the tryptamines due to issues with the phens; quite the contrary in fact. It's personal taste and I find 2C-B to be interesting but far from a favourite. I much prefer the evil DOC!

 

[phuckingnutz]

Yeah DOC certainly is a time commitment. I assume I won't sleep that night unless I wake up early and take it, and even then, I don't get much. Amazing drug though. I prefer it to DOM for sure, but they're both good. DOM is lighter on the system.

Please elaborate on the "why" you prefer DOC to DOM. I liked DOC fine, but dosing it is a bitch..IMO. I know, get better scales so i don't have to weigh a quarter gram to use for my volumetric dosing.
All that said, I recently purchased 300 2.5mg blotters of DOM and have yet to try any...so, Xorkoth, why the preference for DOC? I greatly respect your opinions in these matters...and am very curious to hear it.
DOM is "lighter on the body"...enlighten me.

 

[Xorkoth]

I prefer DOC for a variety of reasons. I find it more fully engrossing than DOM. It produces a certain amount of enhanced sociability and empathogenesis that DOM does not. It feels very nice in the body, except for occasionally during the come-up (DOM is gentler but much more transparent on the body). DOC's visuals are colorful and beautiful, the whole thing reminds me fairly strongly of a cross between mescaline and LSD. To me it combines some of the best aspects of different psychedelic states into one and produces a very full and satisfying trip. Each time I tried DOM I felt it lacked something compared to DOC. Finally, out of all the DOXs I've tried (DOB, DOC, DOI, DOM, DOT, DOET, DOPr), only DOC has this magical plateau stage that I have often talked about, where about 9 to 10 hours into the trip, it shifts gears into a comfy, stimulated, euphoric, good-humored state where I feel like I'm firing on all cylinders, one of the most perfect states of mind I've encountered. And it's very reliable, it does this every time for me. I have learned how to maximize DOC's effects, and when I choose to do a DOC day, it always numbers among the days I think back on the most fondly. No other psychedelic has been so consistently good and full in its effects for me.

In fact, it's worth mentioning that DOM specifically was one of Shulgin's "magical half dozen."

Indeed, as was DOB. It is beyond argument that Shulgin loved both DOM and DOB more than almost all of his other creations. If he had decided against them he wouldn't have stated them as part of his magical half dozen when he published his work.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

Indeed, as was DOB. It is beyond argument that Shulgin loved both DOM and DOB more than almost all of his other creations. If he had decided against them he wouldn't have stated them as part of his magical half dozen when he published his work.

I interpret the quote I gave earlier in this thread differently considering DOX chemicals caused fatalities and I think the quote was from after the publication of PiHKAL. In either situation I accept and appreciate your different opinion. I appreciate you're being kind.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

InterestingFACT,

I won't bother responding while you comments are filled with insults and personal attacks. This is the Internet and people discuss opinions, someone always has a different opinion than you.