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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

It's most likely that he is referring to the tendency for 5ht2a agonists to cause muscle tremor.
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yeah, it's the shaking. I can stop it or abate if I want to but with effort. I prefer to just let myself shake till tension is gone and it feels wonderful, but it looks weird and makes people worry. So maybe "conscious seizures" has more fright value than it should but it sure can look like one if your buddy walks in on you. I can the shakes with all psychedelics to varying degrees but it is a especially common with DOC for me personally.

I also find it to be pretty much the opposite of dissociating, though at high doses I have been pretty in my head when choosing to listen to music rather than be active. I find that DOC focuses me to a very intense degree... I will get very into what I'm doing.
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My dissociative of choice was MXE if that helps. I found the things you experience in that headspace can be just as intense as any psychedelic but you are more detached, as if watching a movie instead of being thrown into the movie. Well, DOC is first and foremost a psychedelic, but can be also be more "movie-like" especially when you're getting thrown about in the psychedelic headspace. It might be this very quality people are describing when they say they can function in public better with this psychedelic. Sorry if I've used poor language. I've taken DOC with MXE before and found it brought out this quality even more.
 
Xorkoth said:
The above pictures are from a 100mg overdose, it should be mentioned. Of course one should always treat DOX chemicals cautiously and with great respect, and with intense observance of accurate dosing via liquid measurement, and careful handling in powder/crystal form. And if your vendor also supplies a DOX like DOC, and you get something else, do a reagent test and allergy test before diving in to something with a much higher dose... that is one way death and harm comes from these substances, misidentification.
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I agree. These precautions are how you remain safe and healthy. People should use these procedures with any chemical. Different people respond differently.
 
I've had a handful of experience with this Chem, doses ranging from .5-~3 mgs. I have a free day tomorrow, but will be around people I may have to interact with. I was thinking a dose around 2.0-2.25 mgs would be satisfying without being overwhelming. In as many words, I'm hoping to hit my sweet spot at this dose. What are your all's functional sweet spots? Does this seem too high to anyone? I'm kind of tired of low dosing and being left in the DMZ.
 
psykedenlitenment said:
I've had a handful of experience with this Chem, doses ranging from .5-~3 mgs. I have a free day tomorrow, but will be around people I may have to interact with. I was thinking a dose around 2.0-2.25 mgs would be satisfying without being overwhelming. In as many words, I'm hoping to hit my sweet spot at this dose. What are your all's functional sweet spots? Does this seem too high to anyone? I'm kind of tired of low dosing and being left in the DMZ.
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To me, 2mg is at the low end of a truly psychedelic dose. I get visuals there but I would generally prefer to push it closer to 3.

That being said it depends when you have to interact with people. At 2.5-3mg I would be fine interacting with the public later on in the trip. But obviously during the come up you'll probably have some trouble keeping a public face.
 
I'm too stupid to measure out accurate, 2.5mg doses without a really expensive chemistry lab scale, so in the greater interest of harm reduction, I don't order DOC.
 
There's ways to do it without danger. Measure out desired amount, dissolve into known amount of alcohol. Find ratio of Chem to liquid - boom - known concentration; safe measuring, safer dosing. Volumetric dosing
 
SteamboatBillJr said:
I agree. These precautions are how you remain safe and healthy. People should use these procedures with any chemical. Different people respond differently.
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Man lucked out - with the benzo blackout that ensued it's a wonder how he's still alive. If you look at what he *remembers* taking, It's absolutely ridiculous. No one in their right mind should have access to things like this if he's being completely irresponsible and continually blacking himself out. And all he wanted to accomplish was "some good times to make the day go by better."

What an idiot. People like this are why we get so much bad propaganda in the news.
On a side note, he barely lost anything but a few toes in the end - which undoubtedly was some sort of miracle (55+ thinners and whatever else they could throw at him to stop his calves from pooling with blood) ; NOT to mention he was secretly abusing THC throughout this entire ordeal in the hospital. tHC is a vasodilator and its speculated this may have saved his legs. Alongside the 55+ meds they had pumping through him.

Just learn from this, for gods sake people.

We should have a scanner that identifies human intelligence and negligence. And the people whom fail deserve NO ACCESS to any drugs. :p
Or we just need to stop being idiots. I can't believe how many people who replied disregarded it as a foolish act...
 
As an adult I am capable of making my own decisions about what I put in my body. And being a responsible drug user, I am able to use DOC safely. There's no reason for me to choose not to use one of my favorite psychedelics, which is different from mushrooms and LSD, just because it's possible to overdose more easily than it is on other things. It's not like if I accidentally take 5mg instead of 3mg I'm gonna lose toes. I'd have to do something I'd never do, like eat a bag of raw DOC crystal or drink an entire bottle of solution. I have no kids, I live with someone who knows as much about drugs as I do. Why is it that I am making a misguided decision when I choose to take DOC?

And not that I would ever have a benzo blackout, because I don't have benzos nor do I ever, but if I did, I could drink the couple of bottles of liquor I have in my house and die too. You can't say a class of drugs is too dangerous to use because someone did this on a benzo blackout.
 
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@ SteamboatBillJr: You've expressed the same opinion numerous times over the last few months, and all over a fair number of threads. I won't get into the reasons why some of your arguments regarding this matter are flawed, even if you've meant well... But all of this begs the question: What the heck happened to you when you used DOC? I know that you got into some serious trouble because of drug use and/or dealing and/or some incident(s)... Is this partly (mostly?) the reason why you are so determined to knock a family of drugs that has been around for decades, and which possesses a reasonable safety profile if used responsibly and correctly (i.e. DOx)? I'm asking in good faith, because to be honest, your relentless crusade against DOx (and DOC in particular) seems over-the-top, and maybe even motivated by some sort of trauma that you experienced. What gives?
 
Due to weather and other conditions, I was unable last weekend to do my 2 +/- mg functionality dose. Got it down yesterday. Mentally, I was there; visually, good tracers, with little breathing/warping/flowing. Very very functional. Again, male, 29 y/o, 5'11" @ 140 lbs, construction worker and avid weekend hiker (ie: -3 bmi; seriously, no fat (yes it sucks)). Great dose for public (YMMV), but I think I could handle more. This 2 mg dose could work really well as a combo platform, if you could get the timing right. So, question - being that it takes 2-2.5 h hours to kick in, what would be an ideal time to take the second material? Does it matter what class it belongs to regarding time?Thanks
 
psykedenlitenment said:
Due to weather and other conditions, I was unable last weekend to do my 2 +/- mg functionality dose. Got it down yesterday. Mentally, I was there; visually, good tracers, with little breathing/warping/flowing. Very very functional. Again, male, 29 y/o, 5'11" @ 140 lbs, construction worker and avid weekend hiker (ie: -3 bmi; seriously, no fat (yes it sucks)). Great dose for public (YMMV), but I think I could handle more. This 2 mg dose could work really well as a combo platform, if you could get the timing right. So, question - being that it takes 2-2.5 h hours to kick in, what would be an ideal time to take the second material? Does it matter what class it belongs to regarding time?Thanks
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I've added in 4-aco-met about 4-5 hours after taking doc to great effect. Obviously with shorter acting compounds be aware that they'll fade away long before your doc experience comes to an end.
 
lamanogaucha,

Hyper selective 5HT2A agonists have significant toxicity. This is true of both NBOMe drugs and DOC. The most dangerous aspect of this toxicity is the user could experience few negative side effects then several months later experience dangerous physical complications at the same dose. As I said, this is true of 25I-NBOMe and DOC. I have experienced this personally. I'll add specific details after I review my notes.

Thankfully, I didn't sell DOC. My legal troubles are private. The lesson learned is research chemicals/ novel psychoactive substances are illegal in the United States of America. The "Not For Human Consumption" excuse doesn't protect the user from prosecution under the Federal Analogue Act and the related consequences.

Some of the other novel psychoactive substances are safer and I occasionally use them. People shouldn't use hyper-selective 5HT2a agonist. We have not discovered what makes the toxicity unpredictable. If people use other novel psychoactive substances (as I do) they should obtain them with appropriate precautions realizing the DEA and judicial system consider these chemicals illegal.
 
I have also never heard of such a thing happening with DOC but I'd love to see some reports or something if you know of them. I'm not trying to be in denial or anything. But as I understand it, the NBOMes are far more selective, I think they're full agonists, right? I don't believe the same is true of the DOXs even though they are quite potent and powerful.

I will say I do experience vasconstriction from DOC, and at regular doses if I get quite cold I can really feel it and the feeling has concerned me. I'm also quite prone to vasoconstriction. It's for this reason that I am unwilling to push the dose very high. Certainly at high dosages I don't feel it's going to be safe, but regular dosages is what I want DOC for anyway. I've just never heard of anyone experiencing a serious negative health consequence from a regular dose of DOC.
 
Xorkoth, as you're a seasoned traveler with this substance, what would you put your top end comfortable dosage at, something comparable to the erowid charts?
 
DOC has a high intrinsic activity, but it's not a full agonist. DOI is a full agonist, but this does not extend equally across the series.
It's also not selective for 5ht2a. In fact it affects 5ht2b and 5ht2c moreso than 5ht2a.

By the way, nbomes aren't truly selective for 5ht2a either--their affinity for 5ht2c has been well-established for many years.

In any case, the high intrinsic activity of DOx compounds gives them a narrower therapeutic window than the low intrinsic activity psychedelics like lsd or dmt, but it doesn't cause them to be unreliable in effect. The notorious unpredictability of nbomes probably has something to do with the way they're absorbed or metabolized.
 
The highest I'd feel comfortable taking is probably 5mg at once... I've only ever taken 4.5 at once, and normally I take 2 or 3. Even after using it hundreds of times over the years, 2mg will still sometimes be stronger than 4mg... just like with LSD or anything else, every trip is different. Once recently I took a single hit of LSD, same batch as I had been using, and it was stronger than the 3 hits I took the time before that.

Anyway, I have taken up to 6.5mg in a single day, separated by 11 hours (4.5 then 2), at a music festival. If you plan to try DOC or have little experience I wouldn't recommend going past 3mg, and in fact if it's your first time start with no more than 2mg. You definitely have to take the DOXs seriously and realize they're very potent and very long-lasting and less safe than some things like LSD or the majority of tryptamines. But I'd say there are some of the 2C-X series (especially 2C-T-7) that have a lower therapeutic index. If I took 5 times my regular dosage of DOC, which would be 15mg, I would feel better about it than if I took 5 times my normal 2C-B dosage (which would be 150mg). Or pretty much any of that class really.
 
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