Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amanita Mushrooms Thread

[adrian89987]

I'm not sure how 'fun' of an experience these usually are

 

[bishop912]

You should check out Erowid for information about dosage and effects, I've never used amanitas before but I've heard they are more "strange" than "fun."

It will most likely not be anything like the other psychedelics that you mentioned...but I would be careful dosing because from what I've heard it can be hard to deal with at high dosages.

 

[SKL]

As bishop mentioned, check Erowid, if I recall correctly, they have a fairly extensive amanitas vault. I'm going to keep this thread open for a while because this is a psychedelic we on PD don't hear about very much and I'd like to see if any of us have tried it (I never have) and have personal experiences or insights to share. edit-nm, --> B&D

Also, I'd agree with Damien that

I assume I'll require a higher dose than the average psychonaut.

is not only not a safe assumption, but a very easy way to wind up in very serious trouble. Start low & go slow.

Additionally, I would not venture into combinations until you are comfortable with the drug itself.

 

[The Wizard]

Yeah I wouldn't dare start with a high dose; I'm just saying I have a feeling I'll require a much higher dose than the next guy. Yeah, I'm well aware of Erowid's Amanita vault and experience reports, however, the majority of these are about Amanita muscaria, not pantherina. And what I'm going to get is pantherina. And I wouldn't assume information about muscaria can be generalized to apply to pantherina. If I buy the pantherina already dried do I still need to heat them? I assume since I'm a long-time DXM lover (gotta LOVE those DXM CEV's!) that Amanita will be right up my alley.

 

[The Wizard]

With Amanita pantherina one has to dry them out or heat them to destroy the toxins like Ibotenic acid right? Well, if you buy the pantherina already in a drie form must it still be heated? And can I just dry out the pantherina in the sun rather than heating it? If so, for how long?

If I heat it in the oven I do it for how long at what temperature? Or is it better to heat in a pot on the stove?

Would Syrian Rue potentiate Amanita? How do smart drugs mix with Amanita or DXM + Amanita?

 

[PsyGhost]

With Amanita pantherina one has to dry them out or heat them to destroy the toxins like Ibotenic acid right? Well, if you buy the pantherina already in a drie form must it still be heated? And can I just dry out the pantherina in the sun rather than heating it? If so, for how long?

If I heat it in the oven I do it for how long at what temperature? Or is it better to heat in a pot on the stove?

You can dry them in the sun or on a rack in an oven set at a low temperature of 30-40 degrees celsius (86-104 F). The ibotenic acid changes to muscimol upon drying.

If you buy it dried, you are good to go. You don't need to heat it after its been dried, you only heat it if you dont want to wait a couple days for it to dry out on its own.

 

[The Wizard]

Yeah def. keep the thread open dudes bc my shipment of Pantherina is on the way and as soon as I get it I'll prob only wait a few days to try it. I think I'll try 5, maybe 10 grams my first time. I'll dry them out in the sun. I'll grind them to a powder and mix it with a beverage.

Also, I will eventually try combining Pantherina with MJ, Kratom, LSA, DXM, Cidney, 2Cx, MDxm, etc. and let you guys know how these combos go.

Also, do you guys know if Amanitas are always sedating feeling or sometimes stimulating? Because I prefer stimulating trips. Would it be safe for me to mix Amanita with mild stimulants? Finally, are there longterm health benefits to occasional small doses of Amanita used in a health drug fashion?

I think Piracetam, Lecithin, DMAE, Hydergine and/or Rhodiola will mix excellent with Amanita to help make the trip clearer and less confusing. I'd like to one day do Amanita in an isolation tank.

 

[swilow]

^Be careful with combo's, particular the choline supps. For some reason they strike me as being a negative combination.

 

[The Wizard]

To clarify what I said earlier about smart drugs I don't take Lecithin and DMAE the same day. I'm aware it isn't good to mix too much of certain cholinergic drugs

Anyways, would any the smart drugs i mentioned in my last post bc safe to combine with Amanita pantherina?

 

[swilow]

^Dunno much about nootropics personally, but I'm thinking anything that is increasing acetyl-choline in the brain would defintely interact with amanita's....I couldn't tell you how, but its not something I would do.

 

[Buckey]

Do shrooms grow in New Jersey at all?

 

[The Wizard]

K, sadly I bought the wrong grade of Amanita pantherina. I got Grade E pantherina from a certain popular vendor because I am a cheap skate and Grade E was much cheaper than Grade A to D. I had hoped that I'd still be able to get a good effect from the Grade E if I ate enough. Plus, pantherina is supposed to be considerably more potent than muscaria so I figured even the lowest grade of pantherina might be good at a high enough dose.

Well, no, I was wrong. I tried up to 20 grams of dried Grade E pantherina and achieved little more than a heavy, relaxed body buzz and sleepy mind. The first night I only ate 10 grams of pantherina and since it was so weak the second night I ate 20 grams. Not only did I do 20 grams of pantherina I also did 708 mg of DXM, hoping it would compensate for how weak the pantherina was. I got neither a strong DXM trip or amanita experience.

I'm not giving up on Amanita though. I'll try a higher grade of pantherina from another vendor or perhaps a high grade of muscaria, since seeing as it's much more popular recreationally than pantherina perhaps it's a better trip.

What's the dosage range generally for a good to strong batch of Amanita muscaria? 10-20 grams?

Also, I hated how sleepy the pantherina made me. Does Amanita always make you guys sleepy too? I need to find a way to make the buzz more energetic.

 

[hamhurricane]

^^^^
i have read that the siberian variety is MUCH more psychedelic, and given that siberia has a history of shamanic amanita use i am not surprised. also the red skin is supposedly the hot spot for the the desired alkaloid muscimol. As swillo pointed out it may be dangerous to combine amanitas with cholinergic nootropics because the poisonous alkaloid muscarine is a potent acetylcholine agonist, meaning nootropics could increase the unwanted side effects significantly.

anticholinergics (such as dramamine) on the other hand seem promising in combination with fly agarics. amanita poisoning is treated with anticholinergic drugs (which have psychedelic/deleriant properties in their own right) so it seems fly agarics combined with a large dose of dramamine could decrease nausea (they made me vomit violently) counteract the possible presence of muscarine, leave the activity of the desired alkaloid muscimol (which is gabaergic) intact, and add to the high.
there is one report of this combination on erowid and it is quite positive, but if attempting such a combination it should be done cautiously starting with low doses!

 

[DwayneHoover]

http://www.jamesarthur.yage.net/recipe.html

A very complete recipe and instructions and the best discussion I have seen of the actual meta-dimensional trance-effects WHEN PROPERLY PREPARED

Here's a copy in case the page ever goes away...

AMANITA MUSCARIA RECIPE
* DISCLAIMER *

Instruction and Cautions

It must be considered first that potency of these mushrooms varies. The Mushrooms picked early in the season seem to be a bit more potent than those at the end of the season. Although if you know exactly what this mushroom looks like, and I emphasize exactly, it is pretty difficult to mistake anything else for this very obvious mushroom: Never eat ANY Mushroom unless you are ABSOLUTELY 100% sure it is the one you want. Many mushrooms in the Amanita genus are deadly this means BE VERY CAREFUL!!

I cannot stress this enough. BE CAREFUL!!

Amanita muscaria can be "WELL" cooked and eaten in Scrambled eggs, beans, soups etc in small quantities (30 to 40 g. fresh weight) with good results. They are quite tasty like this and have been reported as giving a general sense of well-being. Notice I stressed, "Well" cooked, they should be cooked first to a well-done state so as to convert most of the Ibotenic acid to Muscimol (see below).

This is some of the information that I feel is important for anyone that is interested in the full-blown experience. Since it is a "DEATH (And Rebirth) EXPERIENCE" it is not for everyone. It bears NO resemblance to any other Entheogen (experience wise) and this includes any other kind of Mushroom. Many people have taken this mushroom only to have a misfire (too low dosage to get the full experience) and decided that the full-blown experience was not attainable with these. Others have taken enough to have the full-blown experience only to get the living shit scared out of them by what they reveal. The experience is such that one time and you will gain a new perspective but it takes several times to get a little bit of a grasp on the experience these mushrooms offer.

Please take these Precautions and Suggestions very seriously.

One thing I need to mention right off the bat, is that most people throw up. So you would not want to do this alone as throwing up, while in any out of body experience, can be dangerous. Many famous people have died from choking on their own vomit; do not make the same mistake.

• Have friends (monitors) there for sure.
• Make sure friends do not influence you in ANY way about your experience. No on site analysis.
• Make sure friends know your hearing is intensified as well as your psychic perceptions so there should be no conversations within your proximity, especially about your experience.
• Have friends write down or record what you say.
• Asking questions for clarity is ok, but avoid leading questions.
• If you have a particular quest: Write down your own questions for friends to ask you (reminder).
• If 2 or more people do it together they will merge and have a communal experience. Like the Vulcan mind meld.
• Music does not matter once state is achieved.
• If you watch a movie you will BE the movie. (Avoid Boxing matches) This has been reported in the latter parts of stage 2 experiences also.


People who are familiar with shamanic/ecstatic trance will not be surprised if an explorer takes off all their clothes and runs around babbling. Know this is a possibility. Friends: If you have never seen first hand an initiation ecstatic-trance in South Africa or South America or at least a videotape of one you may want to hunt some down. You will recognize it when you see it. Also when someone enters the spirit realm they put off their bodies. This means they may hit the ground. Be prepared for this possibility and prevent injuries accordingly. Write down what appears to be babbling because it will prove to be very unusual and interesting analysis material for later.


The best time/place for Amanitas

Late night/early morning. Wide-open spaces (no-one in yelling range) The Sunrise and sunlight are much better than the darkness; the light literally goes through you. You will feel yourself being born into light (feeling each and every cell as it changes).

The following recipe is for attempting the full-blown Amanita muscaria death- rebirth experience. Positive people have reported results that consume smaller amounts every day as well. This is the way to get at the full experience. It is most highly suggested that you recycle your urine because this is the high-magic alchemical process. Your body prepares the chemicals and separates them into your urine sop you can safely re-ingest them in a more potent state. You don't need to but you will need to consume more mushrooms if you don't and the mushrooms contain more of the Ibotenic acid which causes the uncomfortable and less desirable physical effects (sweating/nausea) whereas your body converts the Ibotenic acid to Muscimol which is that which produces the desirable effects. So if you can get over that old conditioning you will be the higher for it.

A decent size cap is 6" use 4 to 6 with stems. (Approx 28g dry weight)

Dry them first (Decarboxylation) crush or shred into powder or small pieces. (Coffee grinders work quite well for powdering the dried mushrooms).

Add to 6 cups of water keep just barely boiling (bubbling) for 1 hour.

Strain and cool. Drink 2 cups (or roughly half of the liquid). Or you can also just mix it relatively thin and drink the liquid with the pulp (this is what I suggest) but just consuming the strained material is easier (in case you are trying to keep this as easy as possible).

Make sure you make water before your first cup, because the rest of your water you are going to re-ingest. Yes I mean the consumption of your urine. Don't worry it will not hurt you. In fact if your ill it will help your body fight off whatever ails you since all of the antibodies your immune system makes to fight off disease are filtered off into your urine (an intentional miraculous process). Besides you are a serious explorer aren't you? Remember, in the Christianity section, I said that Jesus said to the woman at the well, "If you knew who I was, you would ask me for waters to drink, for I would give you living waters" He was not kidding. It is an alchemical process even for those who are conditioned with repugnance to certain things. It is just an easier one to swallow if you are not fed a predisposition to abhor the idea. Just chase it with some Iced Tea you'll be fine. The post- alchemical-process material is much better, and worth the effort. After first passing water wait an hour before consuming any more source material. Do not waste your urine keep recycling until you achieve the proper effects.


Wait 2 full hours for effects.

If desired effect is not achieved (you will definitely know)drink 1 more cup.

After 1 more hour, if the state is not achieved repeat.

Hopefully you have had some practice with Meditation. This comes into play because you are waking your Spiritual Consciousness into your Surface Consciousness state. There is massive Time compression.


3 states of Consciousness: This will help explain the experience.

1) Surface (Conditioned) Consciousness. Internal dialog and thought perception is approximately the same speed as voice (conversation).

2) Sub/supra (dream state) Consciousness. Some time compression, thought speed accelerated. Example: You may dream a whole days event in a few minutes.

3) Spiritual (the real you) Consciousness. You experience massive time compression. Thought speed is accelerated abundantly, possibly beyond time.

As in Meditation you let all thoughts pass through you without reaction. You may experience a floating or sinking sensation. The Yogis say to go upwards and try to keep yourself there. When you go down you experience the other side. If you go down you eventually will come back up. It seems the further down you go the higher you also go. This may seem confusing but while in the state you will understand.


The 3 stages of effects:

1) The first stage is generally euphoric. Expect a lightness of being as well as an assumption of increased strength.

2) The second stage is where you will feel a lightness or a heaviness coming on. This is where you are starting to "Put Off" your physical body. Expect to feel like you are spiritually (and physically) falling through or shooting into space. You may feel an excessive HEAVINESS in your feet, legs (up to the knees or hips) then moving to the rest of your torso. If you lie down (highly recommended) you will feel your whole body getting heavy, and the sensation that you are flying out of it.

3) The third stage sometimes has an "In and Out" effect as it comes on. You should definitely lie down when this happens. You will feel a flash that is a jump into another dimension. When this happens, if you are standing up, you will fall down. So make sure you are lying comfortably as this starts to happen. These flashes will at first be instantaneous. The perception is that you are leaving and returning having seen something completely different than your present surroundings. Then the flash turns into a full dimensional shift. This is when many people experience their life flashing before their eyes. You may start to panic, thinking you have eaten the wrong thing or have made a fatal mistake. This is where you will want your friends to reassure you that you are not going to die. Friends may also call the person by name and wake them temporarily. This is good for monitoring purposes because for the experiencer things are happening so fast that there is no way to bring back all of the things that have been seen. If you do not reach the 3rd stage, you may want to try again at another time as this 3rd stage is where all the action is happening and is the sought after effect.

Amanita Muscaria is not similar to anything else. No other experiences have any relationship to this experience. Excepting perhaps the traditional N.D.E. (Near Death Experience). When the time compression factor occurs expect to see your life flashing before your eyes. The reason this is thought of as a near death experience is this effect. If you understand the concept of Re- incarnation then you can grasp the concept that you have died before, maybe many, many times. Therefore this flash of your life before your eyes is familiar. This is not just a simple "hey I felt like I was dying" thing. You literally know you are dying because of the nature of the experience. If you are not familiar with (or a believer in) Reincarnation, it has little bearing with the experience itself. Just know you will see your life flash before your eyes (interpret it as you will). I know that this whole explanation of this event is hard to believe, but if you feel inclined to do it by yourself (without friends) this is a choice I can only advise against. It's just a suggestion, but a very strong one.

I am adding the following from page 4 of the website because it is so very important when a recipe for success is being sought. Keep in mind that I suggest that you always obtain any plant entheogens you intend to consume on your own. This means go out into the fields and mountains and pick that which nature offers you. Be careful not to piss off any property owners, or other people that might think it their business to concern themselves with what you are ingesting into your body. Try not to associate yourself with those individuals that traffic in illegal substances. Those engaged in Heroin, Crank, or Crack will not have the mushrooms anyways. It is usually best to pick your own. Amanita muscaria is not illegal, and drug dealers will not have them. With that in mind consult the following. I feel that this is a remnant of one possible recipe for SOMA, AMBROSIA, AMRITA, NECTAR and a sacrament known by many other names.

Figure 2-23/24. Jesus in an obvious pose as the lord of plants. 12th century, Canterbury psalter.
Although Christianity (as most every other Religion) claims to have the express route to God, and exclusivity to the heavenly realms, this can be found imbedded, hidden inside most every religious order on our infantile planet. If (and I say this only to be objective) there is validity to any or all of these ancient, and not so ancient traditions, it must be found in the real meat of the concept and actuality of the existence of an "other world" a spiritual existence that is best experienced and understood in the way it originally was meant to be understood.



This first hand understanding is through the ingestion of the holy substance of which there has been so much written that this brief expose' merely scratches the surface. It IS this direct communal contact that is truly the means whereby a human being can experience his true spiritual nature. One must take very seriously his or her spirituality, for this is that which we truly are. As I stated in the opening sentence, "This experience is of extremely great value". So much in fact that I feel it necessary to the evolutionary process of each and every individual and inevitably to all of Mankind.

A Careful look at this picture (Jesus above the four plants underscored by the green vine) may reveal much more than is on the surface. This may be an alchemical recipe for the ingredients of Soma (or whatever you want to call the elixir of the Gods) The red one on the right is pretty clearly the Amanita muscaria (which produces the quickening of the spirit). The next one is clearly another mushroom, but it is blue. This would indicate a Psilocybe species (which opens the third eye). Next we may have the depiction of the Syrian Rue plant pod that happens to match this depiction in color as well as structure (this increases the properties of the other compounds, and it is likely to possess other unknown qualities). Fourth is a depiction of the Opium Poppy (which due to the euphoria this plant induces, it enables one to relax enough to let go, which otherwise is a very difficult thing to do in order to fully experience the visionary state, or withstand the beautific vision). Fifth is the green vine that underscores the other four, I suggest that this may represent Cannabis (which is used to prevent nausea and also enhances other things as well as reactivating neuro-pathways opened by other entheogens). Thus five plants depicted in one picture, when understanding the properties of each, as well as why each plant could play an important part in inducing the ultimate brew, may be the key to unlocking the mystery of Soma. The problem in concluding the discussion of what exactly Soma was rests in the disappointment in the experience achieved by each of the candidates thus far proposed individually. This mystery may not be as unsolvable as it seemed. The Soma brew was obviously a mixture of several plants. The case presented for the Amanita Muscaria by Wasson and others is very convincing. As you can see by the research done in this work alone, there is ample evidence that the mushroom fits as an answer to the mystery in many ways. Recently a new book by Flattery and Schwartz makes a good case for Syrian Rue as their candidate of choice. McKenna and others have exhaustively covered the ecstatic visionary states produced by the Psilocybin mushrooms and their validity as a candidate cannot be discounted, nor should it be. McKenna speaks on this with authority. Although he, like many others, consider the question unsolved at present (this current theory yet to be considered). The Opiate Poppies, as far as I know, have not been singled out as a candidate; I feel primarily due to the overwhelming evidence for the other proposed plants. However, The name Papaver Somniferum is a big clue. Soma/Somniferum possesses interesting linguistic links. The answer could be that none of those proposed candidates for the ancient ecstasy producing food/drink of the Gods is wrong. Individually each candidate falls short of the mark in producing the described state of consciousness expected after reading the descriptions in the various religious texts. However a mixture of these five plants in this picture may produce this long sought after and mysterious experience that has remained an enigma for so many years.

All roads do not lead to Rome. Different "keys" open different doorways, and different combinations open different locks. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that any experience is the same as any other; this is not the case with plant entheogens. A chemical is (after all) a chemical, but a chemical it is not the same as every other chemical. Below are 4 of the plant sources for that which I think to be the admixture called Soma (the same as depicted in the 11th century art above). Excluded is Cannabis (Or the green DMT containing plants. Left to right: Opium, Syrian Rue, Psilocybe, and Amanita muscaria. 5 plants, 5 colors. This 5-color theme recurs in many mystical traditions.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow, thanks a lot for this post. Very, very interesting.

And welcome to PD. It appears you've been at Bluelight for a while but I can't recall ever seeing your name.

 

[The Wizard]

Is it true that Syrian Rue potentiates Amanita? I noticed the combo in a few experience reports on Erowid. I wonder how safe combinign MAO-a's with Amanita is. I would think the Rue could increase the nausea and sedation of Amanita which wouldn't be fun. I wish Amanita didn't feel so damned sedating. How do you guys stay awake on it? Who all has tried saving their Amanita urine and drinking it and how effective is it. I'm wondering how many hours of post-Amanita pee one needs to save to drink.

I've got to find some sort of supplements/nootropics than can safely be combined with Amanita to make the trip more alert and energetic. I know cholinergic supps like DMAE, Lecithin, etc. are a no-no. I don't see why some Piracetam, Yerba Mate, Japanese Sweet Flag, Thai Kratom or Rhodiola would mix dangerously with Amanita though as a way to wake up the trip.

What do most you guys pay for Grade A Amanita muscaria. I see a site offering A+ Amanita muscaria for $17 an ounce or so. Good deal or prob. a scam? Are the best muscaria from Siberia, Washington D.C., Japan or what?

Can't imagine if one were to combine Amanita muscaria with Salvia divinorum, Ibogaine, Lophora diffusa (the strange deliriant cactus which is psychoactive despite not having Mescaline), Carbogen, Xenon or Nitrous Oxide how dissociating/delirious the resulting trip would be...

 

[The Wizard]

I wonder how Amanita compares to Ibogaine or Salvia divinorum and how it would come with either of those.

 

[junglist15]

first time with Amanita muscaria?

going for a 10g dose, borderline common/strong dose.

for the first experience is it better to be alone, or with someone else who may also be tripping?

and how important is setting?

 

[Black]

The only trip you will be taking regarding amanita muscaria is to the bathroom. You might want some one present to hold your hair when vomiting.

sounds like you haven't got the preperation right.

having a sitter is advisable with amanitas, as the experiences can be quite strong and some people do come into an energetic phase while tripping.

 

[Madhatter4]

The only trip you will be taking regarding amanita muscaria is to the bathroom. You might want some one present to hold your hair when vomiting.

^^^LOL I agree 100% .......