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Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 5-MeO-MiPT Thread - Part 2

Listening said:
Yea, I threw mine away after having a purely negative experience (first try and it was bad enough that I never wanted to try again) but have always wondered what the deal was, as I seem to be pretty tolerant of most psychedelics...
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You aren't alone in this regard. I worked with this substance all last year and personally trip sat or tripped with multiple people in a variety of settings. I saw it humble hard heads that had years of shroom/LSD trips under their belts. It caused great distress in a friend of mine one night and I've never seen him like that on any substance. We've been tripping together on things since our first mushroom journey over a decade ago, he can handle his shit.

In some people it just doesn't seem to mesh well. Even those that can push the does up to full blown trip levels have a hard time working with it.

Img_9999 said:
I had this on a low doses and found it really weird. My first couple of times I got, like you said, some kind of panic attack at the two/three hour mark. I dind't really notice the biphasic character most atribute to the trip, but near the middle of the trip I felt very anxious and uncomfortable, like I've never felt with any other substance. The rest of the trip was fine, and the "fear" passed rather quickly the second time I had it.

I find it weird that 5-Meo-MiPT can do this to me, being that it doesn't seem to alter my mind very drastically.
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It's an oddball that sneaks up on you for sure. I had multiple low does trips on it where I didn't feel much was going on only to cycle into panic states over the course of a few hours. I remember once I had taken 5 or 6mg and felt it wasn't doing much, so I laid in bed to ride out the end of the trip and relax. It sent me down a mental rabbit hole that had me complementing things I never do. I became very depressed and was happy that I had taken the precautions I normally do (locking up all the guns).

Once I'd come through it all was well, but I didn't learn anything or gain much insight. I just felt like it was forcing bad thoughts into my head on that particular trip and it was some time before I returned to the substance and tried again.

I don't want to paint it in a bad light as I really did enjoy my time with 5-meo-mipt. However, I do not suggest this substance to any one any longer, and I refuse to take it again. All together I consumed somewhere in the ball park of 400-600mg over the course of a year and a half, maybe less since I was sharing/giving away a great deal of it. But I know the majority of that gram went into my body and it has changed me and left me humbled. I am less inclined to mess with RCs now.

I abused it to some extent I guess..better than a dope habit I reckon. I guess I was so eager to does it because like you said it was a highly manageable trip and I could enjoy the altered state around sober people without them catching on.
 
HeadphonesandLSD said:
You aren't alone in this regard. I worked with this substance all last year and personally trip sat or tripped with multiple people in a variety of settings. I saw it humble hard heads that had years of shroom/LSD trips under their belts. It caused great distress in a friend of mine one night and I've never seen him like that on any substance. We've been tripping together on things since our first mushroom journey over a decade ago, he can handle his shit.

In some people it just doesn't seem to mesh well. Even those that can push the does up to full blown trip levels have a hard time working with it.
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I've had 100s of psychedelics experiences throughout the past 15 years. Would've loved to see the look on my face when I IV'ed this shit. I immediately knew I'd be feeling like shit tonight.
 
I liked the tactile qualities of this drug, but in general didn't find it particularly interesting. I can see it suiting some people. Maybe tried it three or four times.

There isn't much here for my research, but I can see why people can like it. There is very little chance of a 'freak out' on this one with sub 10mg doses. A very easy ride.
 
crOOk said:
I've had 100s of psychedelics experiences throughout the past 15 years. Would've loved to see the look on my face when I IV'ed this shit. I immediately knew I'd be feeling like shit tonight.
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You're a braver man than I, how much did you IV? What was it like?

I used these ROAs: Smoked/vaped (didn't like it), oral (best), snorted (not as good as oral), and I think I may have plugged it once in a MXE combination, I don't recall that night very well.

Eaten seemed to be the way to go as the other ROAs didn't add much or make it kick in any faster. My friend that panicked on it snorted 3-5mg then re-dosed two times about an hour apart at 1-2mg (also snorted). The second re-dose is what got him, I shouldn't have given it to him but he said it wasn't working and wanted to push it. I gave him fair warning that it wasn't to be taken lightly but eventually gave into his demands.

The nearly instant look of "oh shit, I fucked up" was plastered on his face within a minute or two of taking the final dose. He refused to move from where he was sitting for an hour and wouldn't give straight answers abou how he was feeling when I asked him questions. I offered him a benzo but he refused to take it, he became very distrusting of me which is outside the norm since I'm usually the one talking everyone down or explaining things about the substance we're using. Basically, this guy trusts me with his life.

He came out of it about an hour or so later and was fine for the rest of the night. He begged for more a few days later but I wouldn't give him any. He took 6mg a few months later and was fine for most of the night, he requested a benzo at the 3 hour mark but I talked him into waiting 15 minutes. He said things calmed down and he didn't want it when I offered a xanax 15 minutes later. He described the substance as "fun but difficult".
 
Yeah, fun but difficult is how I would describe it. The effects are so subtle, yet so intense at the same time, in a paradoxical way I can't really wrap my head around. It truly is a unique substance, really enjoyable if it decides to treat you well.
 
originally and what most know of

50-75 5 mapb, 15-25 2-fma, 5-meo -mipt 2 mgs or 4-HO-MET 5 mgs.

its supposed to duplicate(or get very close , even vetern users couldnt tell the difference) of the mdma experience with no mdma comedown some get. 5-meo-mipt is supposed to be a stronger 5HT-1a agonist (thats what 5-mapb doesnt have) and 2-fma releases dopamine and ne (something else 5 mapb doesnt have)

below is the original formula Borax made up. It recently has been updated adding mdai and 5-apb

I index it to a score out of ten, where the person decides how intense they want the experience to be and then add or remove a point to account for weight. 8 is usually absolutely plenty so the scale could probably be adjusted a little to allow greater precision.
5-MAPB=((K2/10)*30)+45
K2 represents the desired intensity. 45 is the minimum dose anyone would get. 30 is the maximum amount that would be added to that 45 if someone wanted an intensity of 10.
2-FMA=((K2/10)*10)+15
The tryptamine is dosed flatly, with 5-MeO-MiPT being 2mg and 4-HO-MET being about 5mg.
Obviously the values can be adjusted depending on the desired experience. For shows I would up the minimum dose of 2-FMA by 5mg.
 
Intresting. As a (related) aside, I once combined a strong dose of 4-FA with 4-HO-MET... all plugged. I don't remember exactly but I think it was in the neighborhood of 80mg 4-FA and 15mg 4-HO-MET. The resulting experience was VERY euphoric, to a greater degree than I have possibly ever felt. My pupils were the most dilated I've ever seen them. There were some lovely visuals along with the extreme euphoria, and the headspace was somewhat psychedelic, deeper than MDMA for sure. I started crying from the beauty of it, it felt so fucking good. It definitely carried some side effects though... I was shaking a bit and then, a few hours in, I started to develop stomach pain. It started like a gassy feeling, but it slowly grew until it was absolutely excrutiating. It was extremely alarming, I actually considered calling an ambulance, I was covered in cold sweat and very pale. After laying down breathing quickly and shallowly for a few hours it started to subside enough that I could sleep. The next morning I felt fine, no hangover or anything to indicate I had just experienced some of the most intense pain I've ever felt for hours the night before.

It could be unrelated but I've never felt anything like that before and I am not prone to stomach issues at all. The stomach pain has made me afraid to try it again but the level of euphoria was truly staggering.
 
Innerpeace said:
originally and what most know of

50-75 5 mapb, 15-25 2-fma, 5-meo -mipt 2 mgs or 4-HO-MET 5 mgs.

its supposed to duplicate(or get very close , even vetern users couldnt tell the difference) of the mdma experience with no mdma comedown some get. 5-meo-mipt is supposed to be a stronger 5HT-1a agonist (thats what 5-mapb doesnt have) and 2-fma releases dopamine and ne (something else 5 mapb doesnt have)

below is the original formula Borax made up. It recently has been updated adding mdai and 5-apb

I index it to a score out of ten, where the person decides how intense they want the experience to be and then add or remove a point to account for weight. 8 is usually absolutely plenty so the scale could probably be adjusted a little to allow greater precision.
5-MAPB=((K2/10)*30)+45
K2 represents the desired intensity. 45 is the minimum dose anyone would get. 30 is the maximum amount that would be added to that 45 if someone wanted an intensity of 10.
2-FMA=((K2/10)*10)+15
The tryptamine is dosed flatly, with 5-MeO-MiPT being 2mg and 4-HO-MET being about 5mg.
Obviously the values can be adjusted depending on the desired experience. For shows I would up the minimum dose of 2-FMA by 5mg.
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Is that harm reduction lol?
 
crOOk said:
Is that harm reduction lol?
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ive never done it

it appears to be a lower dose of 5-mapb 45-75 mgs (75 being the max)
2-fma 15-25 mgs (many people do 50-80 so yeah that dose seems quite lower , presupposing every chemical is pure)
and 5-meo-dipt at 2-3 mgs thats definitely low dosed

its meant to chemically be the same as mdma with 5mapb being the serotonin releaser , 2-fma being the dopamine and ne releaser, and 5-meo-mipt being the 5HT-1a agonist which mdma has ( and 5-mapb) lacks. In theory it is safer for your body to a smaller degree as far as neueotoxity than regular mdma based on chemistry

so thats the science of it

best to keep doses in this range..
 
Innerpeace said:
ive never done it

it appears to be a lower dose of 5-mapb 45-75 mgs (75 being the max)
2-fma 15-25 mgs (many people do 50-80 so yeah that dose seems quite lower , presupposing every chemical is pure)
and 5-meo-dipt at 2-3 mgs thats definitely low dosed

its meant to chemically be the same as mdma with 5mapb being the serotonin releaser , 2-fma being the dopamine and ne releaser, and 5-meo-mipt being the 5HT-1a agonist which mdma has ( and 5-mapb) lacks. In theory it is safer for your body to a smaller degree as far as neueotoxity than regular mdma based on chemistry

so thats the science of it

best to keep doses in this range..
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You know what would work, too? 140mg MDMA ;)
 
^ well combinations have there place too (even in pharmacology, of which you're aware I'm sure ;) ), and if someone tries a responsible take on something like this, why not. if everything is measured carefully and the dose(s) are slowly titrated, I don't see a problem.

only something for seasoned and responsible users of course
 
crOOk said:
You know what would work, too? 140mg MDMA ;)
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Part of the theory behind this combo is that it avoids the excessively high doses people normally use when taking 5-mapb solo.

The other half of the reasoning is that it avoids the neurotoxic metabolic intermediates that mdma produces. So "theoretically" it's a safer alternative to mdma.

Of course in reality mdma's toxicity is also related to elevated body temperature and the simultaneous release of serotonin and dopamine, so just avoiding the alpha methyl dopamine intermediate doesn't provide any kind of "perfect answer."

In terms of effects though, I can say that the combo is quite excellent.
 
Unfortunately drugs rarely act the way they theoretically do when combined. The risks are not negligible. I hope everyone who tries this combo is aware of that. There should be a fat disclaimer next to the advice if you ask me. Some people are way too naive.

How many studies have there been on 5-MAPB combinations? When drug combos become standard treatment, years of clinical study have been conducted. Doctors take risks sometimes in combining drugs, but only when the benefit outweighs those risks. When it comes to this combo having the same effects and reduces neurotoxicity, there is clearly not enough benefit. The neurotoxicity of 5-MAPB won't turn anyone brain dead. My gut feeling tells me tt is actually insignificant damage for recreational users who do not use it very frequently.

Telling these more naive or less cognitively blessed individuals they might experience unexpected side effects can save lives, just take my word on that. Saving lives is what the spirit of this board is about, however badly some might torture themselves chemically.

I personally would probably try it if I had all the substances available, despite MDMA being a few hours away at worst. I've combined crack with MAOIs, DMT and PCP. On some days I've used over a dozen different drugs. I know damn well though that I was knocking on heaven's door far more than once.

<3
 
InterestingFACT said:
Part of the theory behind this combo is that it avoids the excessively high doses people normally use when taking 5-mapb solo.

The other half of the reasoning is that it avoids the neurotoxic metabolic intermediates that mdma produces. So "theoretically" it's a safer alternative to mdma.

Of course in reality mdma's toxicity is also related to elevated body temperature and the simultaneous release of serotonin and dopamine, so just avoiding the alpha methyl dopamine intermediate doesn't provide any kind of "perfect answer."

In terms of effects though, I can say that the combo is quite excellent.
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glad it worked for you.

I dont want to get into 5-mapb bc theres a whole another thread , just wondering ,is the 5-meo-mipt the reason why 5-mapb can be used at a lower dose bc the 5-meo is a 5HT-1a agonist and produces those effects?

I like to understand the science behind what is happening (can never figure out all the answers myself, thats why genusis are here to help =-)
 
Xorkoth said:
What's "the borax combo?"
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Borax is a guy that posts on reddit regularly in their /r/drugs subreddit. The idea of the combo was to replicate the MDMA experience with RCs. It is supposed to be "safer" than the traditional MDMA roll because it is said that it avoids the typical compilations of it and the come down. In theory this is all well in good, in practice a lot of people take it to mean re-dosing is not only possible but safer than MDMA.

I don't buy that it is safer since so many RCs are coming out now. One gets banned and three come around to replace it. They're coming so fast it's hard to keep up with them even for people like us at BL that are in the know. We won't know the long term effects of many of these substances for some time. So I express great caution with using them and even more when considering combinations.

I haven't tried the "borax combo" myself and probably never will since I'm not fond of a stimulant push, but those that have tried it and reported on it seem to rave about it. I'll continue to take my chances with MDA/MDMA and space out the rolls over many months/years.
 
If you find the original Borax Method reddit post it explains the use of all three chemicals and the receptor subtypes you're looking to hit by using each.
 
The 5-meo-mipt is pretty much just an afterthought to mimic the slightly psychedelic edge that mdma produces via agonism at 5ht1a, 5ht2a, 5ht2b. It's not particularly necessary to the experience.

5-mapb is a fairly selective releaser of serotonin--so much so that it's often subjectively sedating. I suspect that the main reason why people have gotten themselves hurt on 5-mapb is that they dose high on it in order to break threshold for its stimulant effects--dopaminergic activity seems pretty essential or at least beneficial to the empathogenic effects produced by serotonin releasers.

In this sense, I'm quite confident that the combination of a lower dose of 5-mapb + any dopaminergic stimulant is safer than a high dose of 5-mapb. The introduction of 5-meo-mipt brings a greater deal of risk because of of its action on alpha adrenergic receptors, SERT, and as a mao substrate. The risks of its introduction to the combination will of course be dose-dependent, and it would be reckless to try this combination without first being familiar with all of the chemicals involved. If one wishes to mitigate risks, substitution of a more conventionally-acting hallucinogen like 4-aco-dmt would be fine.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense to tout this as a replacement for tested mdma as a harm-reduction strategy, given that mdma is really minimally toxic with infrequent use. Rather, it's a combination of research chemicals that replicates mdma more closely and -possibly- more safely than any of those research chemicals individually. Given that not everyone has access to mdma, and especially that not everyone has access to tested pure mdma, this is absolutely a reasonable goal for a research chemical combination to achieve.

Keep in mind that there have been a few horror stories with 5-Mapb. I would say in terms of long term after effects that's the highest risk chemical of the bunch. In terms of immediate risk of overdose and/or an unpleasant time 5-meo-mipt is the most risky. 2-fma is pretty benign except for its potential to contribute towards mitral valve disfunction and/or left ventricular hypertrophy with long term daily use.
 
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