☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-MiPT Thread

[love_sex_desire]

^ Ya I realize salts are more stable, fumarate being more stable than hydrochloride and hydrochloride more stable than freebase. The person I'm getting it from has 4-HO-MiPT fumarate but interestingly 4-AcO-MiPT freebase. I'm thinking they got 4-AcO-MiPT freebase because 4-AO-MiPT requires a larger dose than 4-HO-MiPT. Having the 4-AcO-MiPT as a freebase would make the potency closer to 4-HO-MiPT fumarate.

I'm still wondering:

If I had 4-AcO-MiPT in a baggie with as much air taken out as possible and placed the baggie into a larger baggie next to a bag of silica, would it keep it's potency for a few years if kept in a freezer? I usually quadruple bag all of my tryptamines and freeze them next to silica, but I'm hesitant with this being a tryptamine, which is already less stable than many other chems, as well as being in freebase form.

Would it be wise to convert it to hydrochloride?

I have next to zilch understanding of chemistry, but if there is a layman's process for converting 4-AcO-MiPT freebase into hydrochloride I would consider trying it out if it is necessary.

 

[fractal fountain]

Since I have never used a dessicant with any of my RCs before, I am curious on how dessicants would be used... Would it be as Love_sex_desire says to place the dessicant in a second baggie that encloses the baggie with the original chemical?

 

[love_sex_desire]

You don't place the silica in a 2nd baggie. Usually it already comes in a baggie, in shoeboxes and thing like that, so I simply place the baggie of silica next to the baggie of goodies, and place that in a larger baggie and usually triple bag it on top of that.

I go a little insane with wrapping bags over bags. Usually starting with a dime bag, then a slightly larger bag, then a "snacks" sized ziplock, then a sandwich sized ziplock, then onto a "Freshness Sealed" freezer baggie, and finally onto a large freezer baggie. Probably overkill but the extra few seconds it takes unpacking and repacking is worth knowing I've stored my goodies as safely as possible

Now if you can get "bulk" silica than is not bagged up, placing the silica into a dimebag would work just as fine. It just needs to be in the vicinity of the chemical to successfully keep moisture out.

I'm still wondering if anyone has had experience with storing freebase tryptamines, in particular 4-AcO-MiPT freebase. Any help with storing freebase tryptamines is greatly appreciated!

 

[Delsyd]

i only have experience storing DMT and 5 meo DMT as freebase.
5 meo dmt freebase after a couple years became discolored but lost very little potency if any.

DMT was held onto for probably 5 months at the longest without negligible loss in potency, but again it did become discolored.

If I had 4-AcO-MiPT in a baggie with as much air taken out as possible and placed the baggie into a larger baggie next to a bag of silica, would it keep it's potency for a few years if kept in a freezer?

if i were to guess, i would say it would be fine kept in the conditions you described.
Or if you have a vac-sealer, that would insure it stays good even longer. (less contact with oxygen)

Would it be wise to convert it to hydrochloride?

prbably the best thing you could do.

 

[love_sex_desire]

So I got my 4-AcO-MiPT freebase in today. Luckily it is just slightly off-white and doesn't look like it has been subjected to much oxidization. I've got it in the freezer and have high hopes for it to retain it's potency. Fingers crossed.

This may have been answered but I'm wondering if someone can compare 4-AcO-MiPT to 4-HO-MiPT.

From my understanding 4-AcO-MiPT will take a little longer to come up compared to 4-HO-MiPT and last a little bit longer?

I also understand that 4-AcO-MiPT requires a higher dose compared to 4-HO-MiPT. How much 4-AcO-MiPT fumarate would be equal to around 20 mg of 4-HO-MiPT fumarate?

I'm also wondering how the effects differ. I've noticed some people say that 4-AcO-MiPT is funner and possibly less serious compared to 4-HO-MiPT, but if anyone has done both and can compare the two, I would appreciate as many details as possible.

Lastly, if you have tried 4-AcO-MiPT and 4-HO-MiPT, which one do you find more valuabale?

 

[Love In Vein]

Keeping psychedelic powders like tryptamines in a freezer is a bad idea for perserving them for one simple thing.

Moisture will inevitably creep inside and start degradation.

Your best bet at the longest store life with them is to keep them in an airtight bag. Then put that bag in an airtight bottle (a pill bottle will do) and put silica inside of that.

Then keep that bottle in a cool and dark place, like a box in a basement. The colder, the better, but without any moisture, as you would have in a freezer.

Would it be wise to convert it to hydrochloride?

No. If you're not an experienced chemist with access to laboratory tools and chemicals, you will inevitably screw it up. It's a definitely more technical than converting cocaine hcl into freebase and FAR more technical than converting cocaine freebase back into a hydrochloride, which most people cannot even do.

I have next to zilch understanding of chemistry, but if there is a layman's process for converting 4-AcO-MiPT freebase into hydrochloride I would consider trying it out if it is necessary.

No, there is not a layman's process for it.

The reason it's being sold as a freebase as opposed to a hydrochloride or a fumurate is BECAUSE it is the most stable form of it.

If you got your 4-AcO-MiPT from a vendor, they will tell you the exact same thing.

That's why there are so many 4 position tryptamines being sold right now that are NOT hydrochlorides, but instead fumurates and freebases. As opposed to a few years ago when virtually all of them were hydrochlorides.

As far as the quality of them when they are new, there is really no discernible difference.

 

[love_sex_desire]

^ My understanding is that freezers are dry. Any moisture in a freezer is frozen.

I keep my tryptamines in a baggie with as much air removed as possible. I then place the baggie next to a bag of silica gel. This keeps moisture out. I then double baggie the tryptamine and silica gel and put it into a lockbox in my freezer. When I need to take anything out I take the lock box out and let it thaw out completely before opening the lock box, even though there is rarely any mositure on the lockbox after thawing, and none that is noticeable upon opening up the lockbox.

The lock box seems to keep out all possible moisture and the silica gels would absorb what minimal amount of moiture might get through. By allowing the lock box to completely thaw out before opening the lockbox and taking the baggies out I highly doubt any moisture would get through.

Freezers are dry! I don't understand why you state that keeping chemicals in a freezer will allow moisture to get in. I think most people agree that storing tryptamines in a freezer is the best way to keep them in a cool, dark, dry place.

I also have never heard that freebase is more stable than hydrochloride and fumarate. Fumarate and Hydrochloride are salts and it is generally known that salts are more stable than freebase. Many people have stated that freebase is the least stable, hydrochloride the next best and fumarate is the most stable. That is why most tryptamines come as a fumarate salt.

Can anyone confirm that freebase is more stable than hydrochloride and fumarate?

Can anyone confirm that freezers are not dry? I don't understand how moisture could get through a lockbox, a few baggies and silica gel in a freezer, where all moisture is frozen.

I'm sorry but nothing in your post about storage made any sense to me. If anyone or if Love in a Vein can confirm that freebase is more stable than hydrochloride and fumarate and that moisture is present in a freezer I would appreciate any more information.

I've had all of my tryptamines stored in freezers and the longest I have had any tryptamines stored in a freezer thus far is for about 6 months without any loss of potency. These were fumarate salts.

Why would many vendors start supplying fumarate and hydrochloride salts rather than freebase, if in fact freebase is the most stable form?

If anyone has any information, please let me know if Love in a Vein or if I am correct.

 

[Listening]

Keeping psychedelic powders like tryptamines in a freezer is a bad idea for perserving them for one simple thing.

Moisture will inevitably creep inside and start degradation.

Has anyone here actually witnessed degradation when storing in the freezer?

I'd like my collection to last for many many years, so I have been storing in a freezer. Specifically, I have:

- A mason jar that is sealed tight
- The jar is filled with rice and also has a silica pack in it
- Chems are in little doubled-ziplocks, stuffed inside the rice pool.
- I let it thaw before opening the jar

I don't think moisture would be an issue. On the other hand, it does concern me that some people here store in only baggies in the freezer. Bags are not airtight, so I would be more concerned with that...

 

[Dr Mamba]

Heat epsom salt until compleet deshydratation, put the powder in a little tissue bag, put the bad in a tight close plastic box with your chemicals, and the box in a black plasic bag.
Just stored my tuff like that at room temperature for at least a year without degradation.

 

[love_sex_desire]

Has anyone here actually witnessed degradation when storing in the freezer?

I'd like my collection to last for many many years, so I have been storing in a freezer. Specifically, I have:

- A mason jar that is sealed tight
- The jar is filled with rice and also has a silica pack in it
- Chems are in little doubled-ziplocks, stuffed inside the rice pool.
- I let it thaw before opening the jar

I don't think moisture would be an issue. On the other hand, it does concern me that some people here store in only baggies in the freezer. Bags are not airtight, so I would be more concerned with that...

Would a mason jar not have air in it though? Unless it was filled to the brim, there would still be air in the jar. I like the idea of putting rice in the jar. Do you have the jar filled to the top with rice to take up as much space as possible, thus leaving little room for air?

I have all of my chems (except AMT. Gotta store that stinky shit separate!) double or triple baggied with silica in between them and they are stored in a lockbox. This is a picture of what I keep them in:

http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=&webid=638859&affixedcode=WW

It's a business card holder lock box. I've had tryptamines stored for almost a year with no noticeable loss in potency. Do you think oxidization would be a problem with my storage method?

 

[love_sex_desire]

i only have experience storing DMT and 5 meo DMT as freebase.
5 meo dmt freebase after a couple years became discolored but lost very little potency if any.

DMT was held onto for probably 5 months at the longest without negligible loss in potency, but again it did become discolored.


if i were to guess, i would say it would be fine kept in the conditions you described.
Or if you have a vac-sealer, that would insure it stays good even longer. (less contact with oxygen)



prbably the best thing you could do.

Hey Delsyd, what was your storage method with the 5-MeO-DMT and DMT freebase?

 

[Listening]

Would a mason jar not have air in it though? Unless it was filled to the brim, there would still be air in the jar. I like the idea of putting rice in the jar. Do you have the jar filled to the top with rice to take up as much space as possible, thus leaving little room for air?

I do indeed fill it to the top with rice. I'm getting extra paranoid though, so I think that the next time I take it out, I'll be replacing the rice with bulk silica.

 

[Delsyd]

Hey Delsyd, what was your storage method with the 5-MeO-DMT and DMT freebase?

inside a vial inside a box with silica packets in it.

sometimes in the freezer, sometimes not

 

[love_sex_desire]

For the time being I have access to medecine bottles and larger vials that are not air tight. I think for the time being I'll store my 4-AcO-MiPT freebase along with my hydrochloride tryptamines in the medecine bottle with silica.

From what I heard in ADD fumarate is very stable and hydrochloride is actually only a little more stable than freebase, so until I get a better storage method I think storing the freebase and hydrochloride tryptamines in a couple baggies with silica, in a medecine bottle placed in a lockbox in the freezer will do for now.

Thanks for the info, and if anyone has any other advice for storing freebase tryptamines, especially 4-AcO-MiPT, please pipe up!

 

[Lazyscience]

what is the chemical formula of 4-aco-mipt?

 

[crOOk]

what is the chemical formula of 4-aco-mipt?

Damn you are lazy indeed, like your suggests. You can find the structure of MIPT by checking 4-HO-MIPT in Tihkal. Now substitute the Hydroxy-Group (OH) with an Acetoxy-Group (CH3-C(=O)-O) and you got yourself a molecule.
Here's a picture of 4-HO-MIPT: http://tinyurl.com/4homiptstructure
And here's the AcO group: http://tinyurl.com/acetoxygroupstructure

The "fourth" Carbon atom has an OH attached (top left). Remove that, remove the "R" from the other image and stick the two together. The sum formulas would be (if my math is correct):
C14H19N2O for 4-HO-MIPT,
C2H3O2 for the Acetoxy group and
C16H21N2O2 for 4-AcO-MIPT

Note: If you are planning to print this on a t-shirt or something, remember there might be a lot of structural isomers that share the same sum formula, but have a completely different structure and pharmacological behaviour.

Edit: You want to do research on the substance? Lol my guess is you're trying to order some from China, India or whereever the hell these people sit nowadays. Well, either way, these are your options, all refer to 4-AcO-MIPT, if I'm correct:
3-[2-(Dimethylamino)ethyl]-4-acetoxy- indole [IUPAC]
4-acetoxy-indole,3-[2-(isopropylmethylamino)ethyl]
4-acetoxy-n-isopropyl-n-methyltryptamine
3-[2-(isopropylmethylamino)ethyl]-4-acetoxy-indole

Should you actually be trying to do research on these (as you claim) which I strongly doubt, then bluelight would really be your best choice. I haven't seen any publications on exotic tryptamines like this one on pub med and I doubt google will yield better results. You'd better search Psilocin on pub med which is probably the only well researched substance with a comparable pharmacological profile and try to get your hands on some publications.

Edit2: I see you deleted your post, my edit wasn't needed then I guess... :D

 

[Jesusgreen]

I was wondering, I don't know a whole lot about some of the 4-HO/AcO tryptamines, I have a fair bit of experience with 4-AcO-DMT and I know a lot about 4-HO-MET, but how does 4-AcO-MiPT (and it's -HO cousin) compare to 4-AcO-DMT? Firstly in the headspace, and secondly in it's visuals.

4-HO-MET sounded great to me aside from the fact that it lacked a lot of the introspective side of 4-AcO-DMT, which for me is it's main attraction. I recently got access to 4-AcO-MiPT as well as some others, so I thought I'd ask about how other 4-substituted tryptamines, 4-AcO-MiPT in particular, compare.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Don't discount 4-HO-MET... Just because it doesn't have the introspective side doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile chem... Its fantastic and will knock you so far out of it that your mind is completely blank. You exist in everything and nothing at the same time.

As for 4-AcO-MiPT and 4-HO-MiPT - they're nowhere near as visual as the other two but much more giggly and traditional low dose shroom-like. You can get some nice CEVs from them and they're both definitely the most stimulating of the 4-sub tryptamines (particularly 4-HO-MiPT) but they have their own character... I don't really get a mind fuck from most things but I certainly did from 4-HO-MiPT. We got lost in thought loops and laughter loops for a good two hours, had auditory distortions, the works. Its worth trying out though 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-DMT are lighter on the body.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I'm not discounting it, but it's just not what I'm looking for in particular at this moment in time. I don't think there's any psychedelic I don't see worth trying, but I'm looking for something specific right now.

Bodyload doesn't really concern me as even with 2C-E which is said to have extreme bodyload I encounter very little of the sort, just a little discomfort but nothing worrying. Lack of visuals doesn't concern me too much either, as while visuals are nice it's the headspace I'm interested in.

Would you say the mindfuck/instrospection of 4-HO and 4-AcO-MiPT is more or less present than with 4-AcO-DMT?

 

[drugs]

4-HO-MiPT - Very intense come up, very stimulating. At times I was completely out of this world. Mentally very intense, but it dosent feel spiritual, more speed like, where your mind is all over the place. I was thinking about all sorts of crazy delusional shit that made perfect sense at the time. Very strong visuals, I spent a fair amount of time staring at a plant and basically controlling its movements with my mind.

4-AcO-MiPT - Lasts a bit longer than its hydroxyl cousin - the effects seems more drawn out. The comeup is longer and dosent hit you all at once like miprocin. Less intense mentally, but it still takes you for a ride. Non visual for me.(I dont get much visuals from 4-aco-trypts).

Both of these are more intense than 4-aco-dmt for me, but they are different. I would say techno/alien/synthetic mushrooms is a good description of miprocin. It lacks the therapeutic component of 4-aco-dmt.