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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Four

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Holy shit. I took 26mg: I dosed at a small dinner party I probably should *not* have dosed at, with no one else aware of it. I was a 24 year old among 3 ~60 year olds having a nice suburban evening. But it still turned out to be an immensely therapeutic and salubrious journey. (I spent most of the journey home, fortunately, after the party, with a surprised but loving family member (who also happens to be a therapist) to sit for me.

I would liken 4-aco-dmt to Ayahuasca, but the urge to purge is nausea-less, but still there; an inner roar needing to come out, from a life-affirming inner squeeeeeezing. Also with an mdma-like body buzz, which may have been fueled by preceding 5-htp supplementation. This thing is medicinal. I have rheumatoid arthritis, and not only did my joints feel *amazing* on the trip, but they still, 3 days later, feel better than they were before the trip. But love, I learned, is the real medicine.

Trip report coming soon.
 
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^Seems like an interesting experience

In hunt for my own low-calorie martini I found ~9/10mg to be great, doesn't seem to affect tolerance as much either. I just do it once a week at max though (and not even every week either, a shame if this would inhibit a good trip), but with this weather it's just perfect. There's probably better chemicals for this job but it's been pleasant, especially at sunset.
 
I would like to share some of my recent experience with 4-aco-dmt. I know mushrooms have been talked about for treating depression. Well recently I have been taking medium small dose of 4-aco-dmt on the comedown of various types of stimulants and MDMA related chems which are know for bad comedowns and next day depression.
I have to say it works wonderfully. On the tail end of a day where I had been dosing and redosing 4-fa all day (between 8:am stopping around 4-5Pm) and had taken 4-fa the day before, I took 25mg 4-aco-dmt about 7pm. The 4-aco usually relaxes me and makes me a little sleepy and thats what I was going for. I transitioned from feeling down and worn out from the 4-fa to just relaxed and tired and in a better mood. My body and muscles felt relaxed and mentally I felt better. Went to sleep around 11-11:30. Woke up the next day and felt great. Straight outta bed I had a good mood and good outlook on the day. My body felt normal, even good, I hit the gym and felt fine. (I think good eating and exercise can't be ignored as part of the process)

If this chem is being researched to treat depression , it sort of makes sense it could help with comedown and depression that comes with the use of certain drugs. I only use this as needed and not on a regular bases and it probably wouldn't be a good idea to do so regularly. But I don't do any type of chemical on a regular basis.
 
I've read through approximately 100% of this large thread so far, yet I still have a few questions. I have some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate available, but I still am unsure about the exact dosage to take.

For a little background, I've had experience with multiple breakthrough and non-breakthrough trips with DMT at varying dosages, Ayahuasca, some great mushroom and MDMA experiences (sometimes in combo with each other sometimes by themselves), 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-Meo-MiPT, and 25i-NBOMe. I wouldn't consider myself a psychedelic connoisseur, but I've had my fair share of experiences.

Other than the 1mg of 25i I took about a month ago (a great experience I might add) I have had almost a full decade of a break from psychedelics due to personal and professional reasons, not because I ever lost my love for them. A few weeks ago I tried 25mg of DPT via IM and experienced nothing (I've never tried IM so I'm guessing it went subcutaneous). +30 mins of the IM injection I insufflated another 25mg and felt nothing but a pretty nice euphoria and slight audio distortion, but nothing psychedelic.

The next week I acquired some 4-HO-DPT and a friend and I both tried 25mg insufflated. My research (probably flawed because there is so much variance on erowid and all over the net) told me I should be feeling it fairly quickly, and 25 minutes went by and nothing, so we decided to insufflate another 25mg. Approximately 15 minutes after the second 25mg dose I started to experience the same euphoria I experienced with the 25mg IM/25mg insufflated DPT and was somewhat upset, so 20 minutes after the seconds 25mg dose of 4-HO I decided "screw it I want to experience a full blown experience!" So my friend and I split the remaining 140mg of DPT that I had left. So in total we both insufflated a total of 50mg of 4-HO-DPT and 70mg of DPT throughout the course of an hour. About 10 minutes after that 70mg of DPT we were both hit like a ton of bricks and were transported into a full +3 experience. It came in waves and at times we had laughing fits with pure euphoria and bliss, and at times we experienced an easy +4 with total ego loss and felt as if we were made of nothing but total light, love and energy. It came in waves, and at certain times it definitely seemed like it overstayed it's welcome. Suffice to say, other than a few very strong DMT breakthroughs the 50mg 4-HO-DPT + 70mg DPT insufflated was definitely the most intense of all, I can't even put it into human language and I would probably not want to try it at that dosage again.

Now that you know my background and experience, what would a medium to medium-strong dose of 4-AcO-DMT fumarate be. I'm looking for great OEV and CEV visuals, introspection, and an all around good experience. I don't want to sit in a corner in fetal position begging for it to stop. I have read a lot about this stubstance, but the majority of doses vary so much. Some people freak out on 15mg and others have a great time on 50mg. For the average psychedelic user what would be a medium-strong dosage. And remember, this is the less-potent fumarate, not the freebase. On this forum people rarely state their doses let alone if it was the freebase or the fumarate. I have the fumarate, and I am thinking approximately 25mg orally. I want to insufflate it, but I've read that first-pass metabolism is somewhat crucial with this substance unlike other psychs like DPT, so I'm pretty set on an oral dose unless someone would convince me otherwise. From the background I wrote above, would 25mg of fumarate give me a moderate to moderate-strong oral dose?

Sorry for the long post, I'm just looking for an answer from someone who has experience with mutlitple different substances, particularly someone who has tried both the fumarate and freebase/HCL versions of 4-AcO-DMT. Thanks for reading.
 
SpiralOut188 said:
I've read through approximately 100% of this large thread so far, yet I still have a few questions. I have some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate available, but I still am unsure about the exact dosage to take.

For a little background, I've had experience with multiple breakthrough and non-breakthrough trips with DMT at varying dosages, Ayahuasca, some great mushroom and MDMA experiences (sometimes in combo with each other sometimes by themselves), 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-Meo-MiPT, and 25i-NBOMe. I wouldn't consider myself a psychedelic connoisseur, but I've had my fair share of experiences.

Other than the 1mg of 25i I took about a month ago (a great experience I might add) I have had almost a full decade of a break from psychedelics due to personal and professional reasons, not because I ever lost my love for them. A few weeks ago I tried 25mg of DPT via IM and experienced nothing (I've never tried IM so I'm guessing it went subcutaneous). +30 mins of the IM injection I insufflated another 25mg and felt nothing but a pretty nice euphoria and slight audio distortion, but nothing psychedelic.

The next week I acquired some 4-HO-DPT and a friend and I both tried 25mg insufflated. My research (probably flawed because there is so much variance on erowid and all over the net) told me I should be feeling it fairly quickly, and 25 minutes went by and nothing, so we decided to insufflate another 25mg. Approximately 15 minutes after the second 25mg dose I started to experience the same euphoria I experienced with the 25mg IM/25mg insufflated DPT and was somewhat upset, so 20 minutes after the seconds 25mg dose of 4-HO I decided "screw it I want to experience a full blown experience!" So my friend and I split the remaining 140mg of DPT that I had left. So in total we both insufflated a total of 50mg of 4-HO-DPT and 70mg of DPT throughout the course of an hour. About 10 minutes after that 70mg of DPT we were both hit like a ton of bricks and were transported into a full +3 experience. It came in waves and at times we had laughing fits with pure euphoria and bliss, and at times we experienced an easy +4 with total ego loss and felt as if we were made of nothing but total light, love and energy. It came in waves, and at certain times it definitely seemed like it overstayed it's welcome. Suffice to say, other than a few very strong DMT breakthroughs the 50mg 4-HO-DPT + 70mg DPT insufflated was definitely the most intense of all, I can't even put it into human language and I would probably not want to try it at that dosage again.

Now that you know my background and experience, what would a medium to medium-strong dose of 4-AcO-DMT fumarate be. I'm looking for great OEV and CEV visuals, introspection, and an all around good experience. I don't want to sit in a corner in fetal position begging for it to stop. I have read a lot about this stubstance, but the majority of doses vary so much. Some people freak out on 15mg and others have a great time on 50mg. For the average psychedelic user what would be a medium-strong dosage. And remember, this is the less-potent fumarate, not the freebase. On this forum people rarely state their doses let alone if it was the freebase or the fumarate. I have the fumarate, and I am thinking approximately 25mg orally. I want to insufflate it, but I've read that first-pass metabolism is somewhat crucial with this substance unlike other psychs like DPT, so I'm pretty set on an oral dose unless someone would convince me otherwise. From the background I wrote above, would 25mg of fumarate give me a moderate to moderate-strong oral dose?

Sorry for the long post, I'm just looking for an answer from someone who has experience with mutlitple different substances, particularly someone who has tried both the fumarate and freebase/HCL versions of 4-AcO-DMT. Thanks for reading.
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The dosage will depend on the person and the strength of other psychedelics or even 4-substituted tryptamines won't be very relevant. Take a 100 ug allergy test like you should do with each new batch of anything... and then I would suggest a 20 mg dose. This shouldn't blow your mind however it may be too light. For some people this is plenty, all they want. For me it's more like 40-80 mg.

But really, this one isn't dangerous in the least... be free with the dosage.
 
I took 30mg of 4-aco-dmt last night for purposes of psychotherapy.

It came on fairly strong within 10 minutes and most of the experience was over in just over two hours.

The main thing that stood out for me, especially while laying down with eyes closed were very strong jolts of energy through my body. It wasn't exactly enjoyable and was on the verge of being painful. If the same energy was more consistent I could see it being quite blissful, but condensed into short "zaps" it wasn't.


I had taken MXE the previous 3 days for similar reasons and found it much more therapeutic. I find I get much greater insight and even if it's regarding negative thought patterns and behaviour it's framed in a constructive way. With 4-aco-dmt I'm more hoping for "difficult experiences" and to work with the "shadow", however I feel MXE might be a more useful medicine for me at this point in my path.
 
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Thanks for all of the replies and PMs that I have received in such a short time, a place like this is invaluable to me, I really appreciate it.

Because it is the fumarate and not the HCL or freebase I think I'm going to shoot for 30mg fumarate in a gelcap for my first experience.

Is gelcapping the powder and taking it orally the recommended route? Or should I just pop the powder in the mouth and chase it with water/juice. From what I've read oral is the best ROA for this particular substance, so I think I'm going to start with the 30mg gelcapped and take it orally, and possibly insufflate in 5-10mg boosters in case I feel like I'm not where I want to be. I'm going to be doing it in a very nice setting with 5 friends that have similar backgrounds as mine, so I will let everyone know how it goes with a detailed TR this weekend. If anyone has any thoughts, concerns, advice, etc. please post because it isn't planned until Saturday night. Thanks again everyone.
 
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30mg fumarate should be more than enough for a satisfying trip. And yes, oral ROA has always treated me well. I find putting it in a gelcap is easier but dissolving I in some juice makes it come on quicker.

Have a fantastic time and do let us know how it goes! Also, if you ver feel up to writing a trip report for your DPT experience, I'd love to read it. That chem absolutely fascinates me.
 
Axed said:
30mg fumarate should be more than enough for a satisfying trip. And yes, oral ROA has always treated me well. I find putting it in a gelcap is easier but dissolving I in some juice makes it come on quicker.

Have a fantastic time and do let us know how it goes! Also, if you ver feel up to writing a trip report for your DPT experience, I'd love to read it. That chem absolutely fascinates me.
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30mg is a strong dose.

I had a 35mg trip, and I'm not willing to go that deep again
 
Those of you saying 25-35 was super intense, were you taking the fumarate?

This is one interesting substance. I've read some people say that 15mg is hardcore, and I've read that others won't bother taking less than 50mg. I understand that everyone's biology is quite different, I've experienced this quite a bit myself, but I've never heard of or seen a substance that has such a varying dosage range. I want to have a rewarding time but I don't want the experience to overstay it's welcome. One person even PMd me and said that this is a very forgiving substance, very safe, and some have said not to worry too much about the dosage. However, I think I'm going to bump down from 30mg just to be safe, even if it is the fumarate. One can always take a little booster if you're not where you want to be, but once you're in the total ego-loss +4 white knuckle ride of your life you can't go back! I think I'm going to go with 20mg for a couple and 25mg for the rest of us. Thanks for all of your help/advice.
 
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SpiralOut188: yes it was fumarate.

Now, when I take 4-Aco-DMT, it's in combo with allylescaline. 20mg AL and 12mg Aco-DMT around 1 hour mark. Brings me to a level of intensity I'm confortable dealing with. I usually have to get outside to take some fresh air and move around 2-3hours in the trip, and the comedown is long for me, unable to get sleep for long, probably because of AL.

I might have to try 4-Aco-DMT alone again, around the 18-20mg mark.
 
trogere said:
SpiralOut188: yes it was fumarate.

Now, when I take 4-Aco-DMT, it's in combo with allylescaline. 20mg AL and 12mg Aco-DMT around 1 hour mark. Brings me to a level of intensity I'm confortable dealing with. I usually have to get outside to take some fresh air and move around 2-3hours in the trip, and the comedown is long for me, unable to get sleep for long, probably because of AL.

I might have to try 4-Aco-DMT alone again, around the 18-20mg mark.
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That is a good combo indeed, i've had al with 4-aco-dmt before, and i took about 2mg less al and 4-aco then went for a bike ride. Can't imagine coming up on it without being able to move around. That made it totally comfortable to me compared to AL by itself, lying still in my bed. Though i took the 4-aco and AL together, and the 4-aco prob was the first thing i felt kicking in.

But my experience pretty much parallels yours, a tailing off of the 4-aco, then a longer, less strong tailing off without the possibility of sleep.

Think i like 4-aco with a lowish dose of mescaline better, but AL had its own merits, and definitely something i will repeat.
 
SpiralOut188 said:
I've read through approximately 100% of this large thread so far, yet I still have a few questions. I have some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate available, but I still am unsure about the exact dosage to take.

For a little background, I've had experience with multiple breakthrough and non-breakthrough trips with DMT at varying dosages, Ayahuasca, some great mushroom and MDMA experiences (sometimes in combo with each other sometimes by themselves), 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-Meo-MiPT, and 25i-NBOMe. I wouldn't consider myself a psychedelic connoisseur, but I've had my fair share of experiences.

Other than the 1mg of 25i I took about a month ago (a great experience I might add) I have had almost a full decade of a break from psychedelics due to personal and professional reasons, not because I ever lost my love for them. A few weeks ago I tried 25mg of DPT via IM and experienced nothing (I've never tried IM so I'm guessing it went subcutaneous). +30 mins of the IM injection I insufflated another 25mg and felt nothing but a pretty nice euphoria and slight audio distortion, but nothing psychedelic.

The next week I acquired some 4-HO-DPT and a friend and I both tried 25mg insufflated. My research (probably flawed because there is so much variance on erowid and all over the net) told me I should be feeling it fairly quickly, and 25 minutes went by and nothing, so we decided to insufflate another 25mg. Approximately 15 minutes after the second 25mg dose I started to experience the same euphoria I experienced with the 25mg IM/25mg insufflated DPT and was somewhat upset, so 20 minutes after the seconds 25mg dose of 4-HO I decided "screw it I want to experience a full blown experience!" So my friend and I split the remaining 140mg of DPT that I had left. So in total we both insufflated a total of 50mg of 4-HO-DPT and 70mg of DPT throughout the course of an hour. About 10 minutes after that 70mg of DPT we were both hit like a ton of bricks and were transported into a full +3 experience. It came in waves and at times we had laughing fits with pure euphoria and bliss, and at times we experienced an easy +4 with total ego loss and felt as if we were made of nothing but total light, love and energy. It came in waves, and at certain times it definitely seemed like it overstayed it's welcome. Suffice to say, other than a few very strong DMT breakthroughs the 50mg 4-HO-DPT + 70mg DPT insufflated was definitely the most intense of all, I can't even put it into human language and I would probably not want to try it at that dosage again.

Now that you know my background and experience, what would a medium to medium-strong dose of 4-AcO-DMT fumarate be. I'm looking for great OEV and CEV visuals, introspection, and an all around good experience. I don't want to sit in a corner in fetal position begging for it to stop. I have read a lot about this stubstance, but the majority of doses vary so much. Some people freak out on 15mg and others have a great time on 50mg. For the average psychedelic user what would be a medium-strong dosage. And remember, this is the less-potent fumarate, not the freebase. On this forum people rarely state their doses let alone if it was the freebase or the fumarate. I have the fumarate, and I am thinking approximately 25mg orally. I want to insufflate it, but I've read that first-pass metabolism is somewhat crucial with this substance unlike other psychs like DPT, so I'm pretty set on an oral dose unless someone would convince me otherwise. From the background I wrote above, would 25mg of fumarate give me a moderate to moderate-strong oral dose?

Sorry for the long post, I'm just looking for an answer from someone who has experience with mutlitple different substances, particularly someone who has tried both the fumarate and freebase/HCL versions of 4-AcO-DMT. Thanks for reading.
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Id dose 30 mg and work your way up. I tend to be a phyc tank And I push doses of 60 mg. it's a great chemical to accidentally take to far. No real anxiety. So maybe dose high (;
 
Wow, where to begin. First of all I should have mentioned that I am a recovering heroin addict and I am currently on 70mg of methadone and 3mg of clonazepam. I take all of that first thing in the morning, so usually by 7 or 8 o'clock at night they have no real blocking effect on any psychs I take. Well, this is the first time they ever did.

A majority of the people that were to partake in this decided to go up to a cottage and take some molly instead, so it was just me and the other friend of mine that I had the insane DPT experience with. We both started with just 20mg. It took about 40 minutes before we started to feel something, but it wasn't very intense. Just a minor threshold tryptamine feel, no real visuals, so we both decided to take another 10mg. My friend stopped here at a total of 30 mg for the night, and had a very light but pleasant experience in his words. At this point it went from threshold to minor OEV and CEVs for me, but no euphoria or body buzz at ALL, nothing like the DPT. It was okay, but I believe my meds from the morning were blocking it from becoming a normal 30mg experience because I could see patterns trying to form but they would dissipate.

At this point another friend of ours came over, and I gave him 30mg off the bat. He was already drunk, and the 30mg hit him VERY fast. It hit him really hard and he vomitted and started to get overwhelmed, but after vomitting out all of his bloody mary and beer he felt okay and had a great trip like my other friend. So at this point we were all at 30mg, they were both at a +2 close to a +3 and I was still maybe +1 if that. I felt very minor effects, so I thought my 2 friends were overplaying what they were really feeling and I felt as if I had gotten my first bunk batch from this vendor. I then took another 30mg to bring me to a total of 60mg. A half hour later I was maybe to a slight +2 but still not even close to where my other 2 friends were at on half of what I took!

At this point I just wanted to experience something similar to what I did with the previous 4-HO-DPT+DPT experience I had, so I just started taking more and more and more throughout the night without weighing it. Big mistake. First dose was at about 7, the last was at approximately 10:30 and at this point I have no idea how much I've taken, but I decide to stop. At about 11PM (30 minutes after the last unknown dose I took) I started to feel a very nice sedating euphoria and it was finally really dark outside, I could see the stars, and the visuals started coming STRONG. I mean I felt as if I was in the middle of an Alex Grey painting. We then went inside because my 2 friends were starting to come down, but I was just starting to finally come up! I laid down on the couch and was enveloped into the strongest visuals I have ever seen. My friends later told me I was laying down with my arms in the air, mouth wide open doing some kind of yawning thing with tears rolling down my face. I felt as if I was in a dome or cathedral and it starting getting a really religious vibe. My body was overtaken. Total ego loss. Total ego death. I could no longer feel my body, I couldn't see my friends across the room, I couldn't hear anything other than what I could describe as flowing energy, and had the most insane visuals enveloped in my mind and in hallucination. It was awe inspiring, the most intense experience of my entire life.

The ego death lasted for what I now found out to be an hour. I then started going into a very bad experience. The visuals started to go away, but I still couldn't feel my body and I still couldn't see or hear. I had no psychedelic visuals but it was as if my brain wasn't registering anything anymore. Everything seemed to lag behind a few seconds. I would move my body, and then I would realize my body was either sitting up or laying down a few seconds later. My brain felt fried, it was as if I was in some kind of weird dissociative state. I started getting scared and my chest started to hurt. I tried talking but it was very difficult to form sentences. I called out for my friends and told them I needed help. I couldn't move, see very well, and my brain just wasn't functioning normally but it didn't feel like normal ego loss or like I was tripping, it was a very scary and odd sensation that I can't really describe. I told them I needed something to come down NOW. I couldn't really see or hear what they were trying to do for me, but I later found out they were calling around to find me some benzos, but couldn't get ahold of anybody. Somehow one of my friends managed to get me into his car and got me home to my prescription of clonazepam and gave me 4mg. For another 2 hours I was in this weird mindframe, but I finally came out of it around 3PM and fell asleep.

There was a total of 260mg and this morning I weighed the remaining 4-ACO and there is only 57mg left. I gave each of them 30mg, which means I took a total of 143mg in incremental doses from 7PM to 10:30PM. 143mg throughout 3 and a half hours! I had no idea I took that much, and I sure as hell will never do that again. I believe it was the methadone and clonazepam that I took in the morning that caused this type of effect reversal for me (along with the fact that I took an insane dosage). My other 2 friends were hit really hard at first, and had a pleasant trip which faded. For me it was reversed, I had a very light trip at first which progressed to something I can't put into words properly.

However, I think it was worth it. Despite the difficulty I had, I had about 1 and a half hours of bliss, and we now know that 143mg is not life threatening at all, I feel great today. Would I do it again? Hell no! The experience I had at first which was very light and boring and the experience at the end where it no longer felt psychedelic but mind numbing I could have done without. However, the experience I had in between those 2 phases was the best experience of my life! I've never had anything close to that before. I've experienced ego loss, but this was soo soo different. I don't know how to explain. Pure love, pure bliss, enveloping my whole body to the point where I became nothing. I was nothing but part of everything.
 
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I actually feel great right now, 100% normal. At 3PM when I felt "down" I was still out of it, but my brain function felt back to normal so I felt safe to fall asleep. I woke up this morning feeling no after effects at all. However I think the 4mg of clonazepam helped out a lot with that. If it wasn't for the clonazepam that I took as soon as I got home who knows how long the effects would have lasted.

What do you mean by my cravings? Are you talking heroin cravings? I've been at the methadone clinic for 4 years now, and I've been clean the whole time from heroin so I haven't had heroin cravings for years. I am now however physically addicted to the methadone, and I am currently doing a slow detox. My max dose was 120mg per day and I am now down to 70mg. I'm going down 2mg per week, so it's going to be a while until I'm out of there. About 10 years ago I was at another clinic and detoxed too fast which ended up in relapse and a few more years of using. Now that it has been so long since I've stuck a needle in my vein I can't imagine ever going back to heroin, but I now have a decent job and don't want to experience any withdrawal from the methadone so I'm going down slowly at the pace my doctor recommended.

Wow, that thread you posted was crazy. Had I read that before maybe I wouldn't have had such a scary experience. The max dosage I read in a trip report was 125mg and it didn't sound very pleasant. At 143mg I think I had an easier time than the TR I read of the person who took the 125mg, and a much easier time than the guy who swallowed the bag of 500mg. The guy who took the 500mg isn't sure how much he really ingested because of the charcoal and the fact that it was in a bag and he didn't even start to feel effects until day 3, so I wonder how much his body actually took in. A lot of what he explained sounds very similar to what I experienced, my experience just didn't last as long. Like I said, I woke up feeling great. But the experience of him driving was very similar to mine. It felt as if I was going 100mph through a portal on the way home. His visuals and ego death also sounded very similar to what I experienced. I really enjoyed it, I just wish I wouldn't have had that period of non-psychedelic mind-numbing dissociative feeling at the end. Other than that, it was amazing.
 
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Yes, I meant opiate cravings. That's good to hear that you're on your way out of that forest. : )

Hey, I had the same experience of portal-driving (I was the passenger) when I did 4-aco-dmt 3 weeks ago!

I have a friend who took a regular dose of 4-aco-dmt last week and went completely out of her mind, and got wheeled to the hopsital. We talked last night, and she seems fine, functional and lucid, if shaken.

It's amazing that this drug can be so powerful, yet safely land the user back in sanity by the next day. I'm impressed by this substance.
 
Would the fact I dumped my dose into a glass of coke prior to consumption have altered it in any way?
 
tashties said:
Would the fact I dumped my dose into a glass of coke prior to consumption have altered it in any way?
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Other than a very small and almost negligible conversion of the acetoxy into the hydroxyl by phosphoric acid present in the coke, no.

Tom
 
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