Welcome to The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread (fourth edition)
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Taken From Wikipedia
25I-NBOMe acts as a highly potent agonist for the human 5-HT2A receptor, with a Ki of 0.044 nM, making it some sixteen times the potency of 2C-I itself, and a radiolabelled form of 25I-NBOMe can be used for mapping the distribution of 5-HT2A receptors in the brain
Sixteen times the potency of 2C-I
25X-NBOMe, 25X-NBOH SAFETY MESSAGE
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This is a newly discovered group of chemicals, with little history of human use.
It has already become clear that these substances carry substantial risks that must be highlighted.
Some facts you should know about The 25X - NBOMe series:
25x NBOMe chemicals have killed at "normal" recreational doses.
Doses can lead to psychotic episodes and ER visits
- We don't know how it kills.
- People have died from doses that are smaller than ones they've taken in the past.
- We don't know the reasons why it is so unpredictable yet.
These chemicals are sometimes mislabeled and sold as LSD or "acid"
- If you or people around you must take these drugs, avoid combinations and advise others to avoid it as well.
- If someone appears to be overdosing, it is important to get medical attention quickly to minimize chance of death or injury.
- If in doubt about your drugs, learn how to test them using testing kits/reagents. Don't have blind faith in the reputation of your source.
- A good rule of thumb is "if it's bitter it's a spitter"
- If you take blotters sold as LSD, swallowing them may render NBOMe type compounds inactive while swallowing LSD will work just as well!
And finally information for people pushing the dosage with NBOMe's:
The NBOMe series is known to be more dangerous than other psychedelic drug families. High doses can easily result in severe reactions such as seizures and HPPD. It is possible to get away with high doses because the mental component of the trip is mild so it may not feel as intense as other psychedelics even though there are powerful visuals. In order to try and overcome this some users take several doses to get a more intense/spiritual experience. While this does work for some, for others this is where the serious side-effects emerge.
As a result of this it is recommended that if you are seeking an intense experience, something more than eye candy, you select a different psychedelic with a higher natural intensity and better safety record such as 2C-E or LSD.
It is strongly advised that users do not take more than 1.5 doses of this drug, with one dose generally agreed to be 0.9 mg (900 ug).
Insufflating doses further increases the risk.
Where we left off from the previous thread: ...
NSFW:
I waited a year between experimenting with 25C and 25I so there was no cross tollerance. Come to think of it I think it's been over a year since I had any real psychedelics (apart from say 6-apb which I take in fairly low dose and although it does give me some mild visual effects sometimes, I wouldn't class it as a true psychedelic it's more of an empathogen/entactogen with some mildly trippy effects.
Here is the technical guide I found most useful for making a betacyclodextrin complex. http://online1.ispcorp.com/Brochures/Pharma/CavamaxBulltn.pdf Look on page 7 for the different methods of preparing a complex. For the small scale lab without specialised equipment it recommends the -Paste Complexation or Kneeding- method. Now you'll need to check what the mole ratio is for making a complex I think from memory it maybe 1mole of active to 1 or 2 moles of betacyclodextrin. I've been told that if you have an excess of betacyclodextrin in this mole ratio it just makes things safer for a good mix. So I'd recommend always working it out with an excess of betacyclodextrin by mole mass ratio (not milligram to milligram ratio). I found a mini mortar and pestle worked a treat for so you can salvage as much of the dryed paste/powder from it fairly easily. These are those $5 ones you can buy from ebay in china. I added small amounts of distilled water to make a paste or almost a thick solution or suspension. As I worked the mortar and pestle over the hour it gradually dried up and I needed to add a few more drops of distilled water. In the end I scraped it up with a razor hobby knife and after letting it dry thoroughly I crushed the powder and mixed it very thoroughly. Now the final step I choose to do may not be necessary. I heard a rumour somewhere that there can be electrostatic charges in a standard plastic baggie that can unmix certain mixed powders or at least cause then to cling to the sides in an uneven fashion. Who knows maybe this is hogwash but what I do is once I've thoroughly mixed my dried complex powder I make a mini envelope from gloss magazine paper (they are called a flap in North America and various powders sold on the street come in them). I keep the envelope then inside a baggie.
Here is something important to consider if you are unfamiliar with minimum weighable mass... Basically the minimum amount of active (NBOMe family in this case) you can weigh accuratly for making into a complex.
According to proper lab weighing procedure the minimum weighable mass of a milligram scale (a scale that weighs down to 0.001g and has a standard fluctuation in either displaying +/-1mg) is 20mg. So 20mg weighed on those scales is called the minimum weighable mass because it's to be within 95% accuracy (ie. it could be between 21mg to 19mg). If you are weighing 10mg on those scales then the accuracy becomes 90%. Now if you are weighing on cheap milligram scales that displays a fluctuation of +/-2mg then your minimum weighable mass becomes 40mg to get the 95% accuracy. If you weighed 20mg on those scales with +/-2mg you'd be getting 90% accuracy. Continue this simple mathematics if your scale displays a fluctuation of +/-3mg to work out your minimum weighable mass and accuracy of the total. Also highly recommended I find using calibration weights. The set I got was 20bucks or less inc shipping from ebay. Get a set that has tiny milligram weights of 10mg or 20mg (I've noticed 50mg or 100mg calibration weights can be off by a couple of milligrams). This way you get an idea how accurate your scales are.
Many people like to use hydroxypropylbetacyclodextrin (HPBCD) as it's properties are better than betacyclodextrin (I can't remember exactly but I think its more soluble or it has a higher bonding ratio). Anyway from my looking into it HPBCD is more expensive and standard betacylodetrin is good enough for my purposes. Basically I found HPBCD and betacyclodextrin both a bit tricky to find for sale without a permit/account at a pharmaceutical/chem supplier (which for your purposes would be extremely dodgy trying to explain). Anyway after much searching I found a RC vendor I'm familiar with sold betacyclodextrin all along!
I ended up making my complex with 26mg of 25I so the accuracy percent should be pretty good. Now the end product I just weight up and snort 20mg of substance for 2mg of active 25I. The betacylodextrin goes well up the nose too.
If you are unsure about what you are doing don't attempt to make a complex! Even worse and much more risky is a simply mixing of NBOMe family active with an excipient (filler) which I've been told can mix unevenly and leave hotspots besides. If you do make a complex please double check your stoichiometry and maths with someone else who is knowledgeable. Once you've made your complex start low!! We already know from one Erowid user mistake that 30mg (and eaily less) is enough to cause siezures followed by cardiac arrest and then death, unless resuscitated which thankfully this person was and lived to tell the tale.
On another topic would anyone experienced in the NBOMe family and the 2C-x family be willing to submit their ideas as to how they rate them in terms of the depth of psychedelic nature of the trip? I just don't know if 25C or 25I really has much depth to it like a good solid trip on 2C-E or even possibly 2C-I (which is even less deep than 2C-E). Although I've not yet tried 2C-P I would guess based on SAR and anecdotal reports it's probably even more potent and deeply psychedelic/therapeutic than 2C-E (which has been my favourite for phenethylamine deep enchanting trips).
What are your thoughts? I've done many trips on the deeper more profound 2C-x's (2C-E, 2C-I) and quite a number of trips on the light/less profound of 2C-x's, (2C-B, 2C-C, 2C-D)
I've only done a handful of trips on 25C and of those only 2 where at a dose where it was really visual and properly immerse. I've only done one trip on 25I and thankfully the dose was right that I got the full experience of lots of visuals and feeling immersed in a trip. From my brief encounters with these 2 of the NBOMe family I can only say that think my mind was fairly empty and the trip seemed fairly direction-less. I think 2C-E and 2C-I took me more for a journey and I suspect these substances are more suited to deep psychedelic, analytical, psycho-spiritual exploration. Has anyone tried the main range of potent NBOMe's (25B, 25D, 25C, 25I) a number of times and can they compare if they were anywhere as deep/psychedelic as a good dose of 2C-E?
Well, it's not the first time someone needs extreme dosages for effects of a substance... I assume you waited at least 2 weeks between your 25i and 25c trips for tolerance?
Now, I don't find that second redose on 25c being much more intense all that weird. The day I got the 25i I dosed ~500ug and had a pretty held back trip, then the day after that I redosed with the same amount and had a trip infinitely more intense. Each and every time after that the effects have been consistent with the dose (which is somewhere in the middle between those 2 times) There's something really off about this behavior, so if I were you I'd be a bit more cautious about dose-range and redosing. You never know what might happen with this and there is always a next time!
p.s Now that's some proper technique. Care to give a link to one of those guides? Could be useful one day![]()
No it was intense after 3mg but that was as the previous person suggested that was after re-dosing, waiting and redosing. I've checked with a few official pharmaceutical guides to different methods of creating a complex with betacylodetrin for this very reason that I didn't want to use one of the cheaper more accessible options of an excipient like lactose and then have the possibility of hot spots (uneven distribution). I followed an official pharmaceutical guide for making a complex with betacylodextrin. The best small scale way was to make a paste gradually and work it thoroughly in a mortar and pestle for an 1hr. I worked out the molar masses before hand and made sure the beta cylodextrin was in excess. I double checked the calculations with those in the advanced drug discussion. I did this as well as checking with my pharmacist friend along the way. The complex is stored flat in a paper flap, just incase any unmixing max happen in just a plastic baggie. So far each of the 10mg (1mg active 25I) snorted dosages has had the same effect. I think it's safe to assume the complex is evenly distributed.
I also have a portable blood pressure & heart rate meter which I used throughout the experiment. I also have alprazolam and beta blockers if need be. I also have on hand nitro-glycerine tablets if severe vasoconstriction becomes a problem such as limbs turning blue or hypertensive crisis.
Wait, you've made a snortable powder using beta-Cyclodextrine and it's not working that intensely even after 3mg? Seems to me that the 25i is not evenly distributed, especially considering the discrepancy between your 2 25c dosages.
If I got this part right do NOT take this powder again, you could actually die if there is too much in a single spot
For me 25i is already very active at ~500ug (though a bit lacking, the real fun starts at ~1mg), so yeah, be cautious. 25c should already be active at 250ug or so..
I started with 1mg dose and thought from my readings that this would be enough for a full blown trip but I was disappointed! Each subsequent dose was also 1mg except for one dose which was in the middle which was a tiny speck of the pure 25I that where miniscule scrapings from up from the weighing paper from before I made the complex with betacyclodextrin. Judging by effects of the other 1mg doseges the pure 25I scrapings were minuscule (although I admit my approach with that was a little foul hearty). so in total over roughly 3hrs over 3mg was snorted.
The thing is that I've redosed with the NBOMe family before. With 25C I took 600µg nasally it wasn't too intense but was a little visual so I waited a few hours till the visuals started to die off then snorted another 600µg and WOWthat's when when walls where breathing and really got to the full on visuals. As Bender would say to Elzar "kick it up a notch!" and that's exactly what re-dosing on 25C did. It made it much more intense than the initial 600µg dose. 25I however seems much more fickle to me and I'm scared as to what initial dose I should take next time??? I too believe others out there with the phenethylamine psychedelics that one initial dose is best.
Judging by my experiment and working out the potency of my complexed product (with whatever slight measurement inaccuracies are involved) would it seem unsafe to you out there with more experience in nasal route 25I for me to take 3mg straigtht off the bat next time? Is this dose what's needed to get it visual?
Excuse me... I'm tripping balls mildly on this substance at the moment... anyways
So I was wondering what is the common dose -nasally- people are finding this begins to get really visual at?
I've tried 30+ other RCs over the years but I took 25i was the first time tonight. After the nonsense of going though liquid measurements and dehydrations every time to snort a dose of with 25C, this time I decided to go the whole hog and made a betacylodextrin complex for easy weighing up snortable dosages (ie weigh 10mg of substance and have 1mg of active).
So anyway I finally tried 25I tonight and it really surprised me the large dose I needed. I was really surprised that for me I needed to keep re-dosing and re-dosing to hit the point that it really became visual and a fully fledged psychedelic. It took 4 repeated dosages over around 3hrs totalling over 3mg!! I'm really surprised as I found 25C dosage was bordering on visual at 600µg and by 1mg it was well and truly very visual and psychedelic.
So I'm not by any means encouraging you kiddies to go out and take 3mg+ of 25I nasally first go or anything!! (Most of us know there have been seizures and deaths from high dosages of this substance) If anyone can please give any feedback it would be much appreciated as I'm really astounded as such a large dose needed! I don't have the most accurate scales but I did use minimum weighable mass for my betacylodextrin complex and I am fairly confident the dosages should be fairly accurate. Do my doseages of 3+mg look right to the rest of you?!?![]()
Specific doses would be helpful. Taking 500mg at T+0:00 then waiting over an hour will give you a large tolerance and you will hardly be tripping. Tolerance grows fast and few people experiment with redosing effects.
With 25i you should have your full dose at the start and not redose, after an hour redosing becomes worthless (IMO with buccal). I also advise you to take a more reasonable dose after your tolerance subsides (2+ weeks), possibly 250ug larger than your previous initial dose.
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