The Big & Dandy 25D-NBOMe (NBOMe-2C-D) Thread

[interleukin]

wow... now that really is scary high blood pressure interleukin. How is your blood pressure normally? Do you think it would be such a problem for people with healthy and low blood pressure normally? Hmm...

Also, about Polysorbate 80, I read in the 25-C nbome thread that Polysorbate 80 helps with the absorbency of 25-C... Is that also the case with 25-D do any of you guys know?

I am trying to leave this stuff alone for the time being, because all this variation in dosages and methods of administration is still not crystal clear, plus the scary high bloodpressure issues, but its just too interesting to not wonder about this stuff for curiosities sake.

So, correct me if I am wrong but, the dosage with this compound so far seems to be light at around 350 micrograms, and it gets heavy around 750 mics, and is probably pushing it around 1mg if we were talking nasal administration? and probably about the same for sub-lingual its just much more hit and miss via sub-lingual administration?

how about rectal administraiton and vaporization... Vaporization, 50micrograms active? Threshold? 100micrograms heavy vaporized? How does rectal compare to that if I even have any of those numbers right to begin with?

Add polysorbate 80 into the mix with rectal, sublingual or nasal delivery... theoretically, how much would that affect it? anyone tried it yet?

I'm just trying to get all this stuff straight, and any clarification would be wonderful.

Baseline blood pressure that day was 115/78. I don't want to scare people off from trying this drug because of that effect though. Most psychedelics have vassoconstrictive properties - 5-meo-dmt, smoked dmt, dpt are much worse for me but thankfully they last < 2hrs. I'm only concerned with this one because the active dose is so small that an overdose could be a major issue.

Regarding ROA, aside from scientific curiosity I don't see why anyone would want to try anything other than intranasal, IM or IV for their first time. My experience with ~825mcg in parts felt perfect in every way possible and was very convenient. Note that since the dose was spread out over 30-45mins it was probably equivalent to only 500-700mcg taken at once. This compound dissolves in warm water so all you have to do is squirt the solution into your nose. For 25C-NBOMe I didn't even bother making a solution and straight up insufflated 275mcg of the powder. I'm sure you could get really fancy with the ROA and increasing absorption rates but why do you want to do all that? I can guarantee you that you will absolutely love 500-750mcg of this taken intranasally.

Regarding the dose response, I would guess that 250mcg is a light dose, 500-750mcg common and 750+ heavy (insufflated).

 

[CesarMillan]

My second test at 500ug nasally all at once was very different, not comparable to 2C-D at this dosage, perhaps some form of reverse tolerance is happening it was more intense then I expected but still I would enjoy up to 800ug I think. Headache during but very minor and eliminated with simple 200mg of ibuprofen. Invigorating, comical, yes much like my limited experience with LSD... with a glorious afterglow.

 

[psykap]

More information about 25D-NBOme
Research was doing on about 20 peoples .
General throghts :
Dosage: 500mcg-2mg

Threeshold : 500-750 mcg
Light : 750 mcg - 1 mg
Common - 1 mg - 1,3 mg
Strong - 1,3 mg - 1,8 mg
Heavy : 1,8 mg+

Onset : 30min - 1,5 h
Peak : 2-3 h
Normal After Effects 3-4h
More people had not trouble with sleep after 8 h.
Remember: If you are sensitive on chemicals , you should start from lowest dose , I have few friends who described 1 mg like very extremelly experience.


I tried max . 1,8 mg ( but maximal single dose which i know was 2,5 mg )
I put blotters on my gum ( blotters should be moved around between upper jaw and cheeks / lip to provide maximum surface for better absorption. You shouldn't take them sublingually - it decreases the absorption rate)
First effect about 30 minutes , I had feeling that it will be strong experience so I decided go to home , It was great idea .
When I back to home my ego was softening , it was very extreme experience similar to 300+mcg LSD , OEVs and CEVs were everywhere ( very excellent , tunnels , spirrals and kaleidoscopes) , music was amazing .
For me this substance has very high potential , when I tried lowest dose I am afraind increase dose , but I heard that 2 mg is still safe , so I risk take 1,8 mg .
I think that is everything If something I remember I will write it.

 

[Erny]

Good point, although not the one that should be actively advertised. And some data that is meaningful, at last. I am somewhat tired of talking about the safest doses, personally I enjoy insane doses as well, often more than the regular ones. Occasionally even the highest "ceiling" doses that may still allow to enjoy (and not yet to suffer) the experience, those just at the border of true overdose and paranoid psychosis. This is where the greatest miracles often reside, in the case of NBOMe PEAs most certainly.

N-2-MeO-benzylated PEAs allow to reach states comparable to 6-8 mg DOB, >20 mg DOM, >5 g p. cubensis or >300 mcg LSD that you have mentioned - without suffering a disastrous bodyload likely to be induced by regular PIHKAL PEAs if we try to use them in proper quantities so to get to these territories. This is an area I had some luck to explore without getting into trouble, and now have some substantial experience in such extreme tripping.

And the data you provided for the title compound definitely places that above 2 milligrams for my case of invariably low sensitivity to NBOMes. Possibly even >3 mg.

 

[Erny]

500 - 700 mics threshold seems a bit high to me.

25 micrograms for me had me feeling threshold effects and 200 mics over an hour had me at +1. I anticipate 400 - 500 mics to be quite an experience for me. I may be sensitive to this one. sub-lingual / nasal

The method of administration for the given doses was exclusively sublingual and on some blotter paper, am I correct? Blotters, as well as tablets have one very important property that justifies the existence of these quasi-commercial forms. The one other methods of dividing the chemical into single doses don't have, be that precise weighting of a crystal powder for insufflation, or solution measurement for either sublingual use or perversions like plugging. That is, they may be easily used outdoors and in public without any additional equipment.

30 minutes before first effects are felt and 1,5 hours to reach the plateau is too long even for the sublingual ROA. As we have already found out, the speed of accumulation of a N-2-MeO-benzyl-PEA in the central nervous system is one very important factor influencing the actual result, much more important than in the case of simple PEAs. This extended onset should definitely mean the drop of the effects intensity at plateau.

When on some blotter, the chemical is adsorbed inside and won't get out all at once. It will have to travel through the paper layers and will be released gradually, but after that it will also have to diffuse through the mucous membrane to get to the bloodstream. And then it isn't surprising that the onset is twice as long and the doses are twice as high compared with insufflation or i/m. The given threshold level should indicate that the chemical may be considered partially lost in given normal doses, and almost completely lost below the given threshold doses, i. e. it is unable to get to the brain in a period of time short enough to accumulate there in substantial quantities and produce the threshold effects.

One not very surprising fact about NBOME PEAs is that almost all of them have an onset being 40 minutes long for the intranasal and intramuscular routes of administration. Be they non-polar or somewhat more polar, short or long acting, all will peak in approx. 40 minutes. There are two exceptions known: highly hydrophobic 2C-I-NBOMe with the onset extended to 3 hours, and comparatively hydrophylic 2C-H-NBOMe that peaks in 20 minutes. 2C-D-NBOMe isn't an exception.

This should be due to a barrier they all need to get across and are doing so with almost equal speeds. The two barriers they meet are the membranes at the place where they adsorb and the BBB.



To obtain doses suitable for insufflation, i/m or some faster sublingual method of administration, the numbers given by psykap should probably be divided by two.

 

[interleukin]

I agree with skatardude10 - 500mcg would be a full dose for me taken intranasally.
Thanks for all the information Erny. What would happen if someone IV'ed 25D-NBOMe? Would it not kick in instantly? Also is the reason for oral inactivity known? It would be great to know so that the drug could potentially be reengineered to avoid that form of inactivation.

 

[Erny]

We have long speculated the lack of oral activity to be due to the markedly high hydrophobicity of these molecules. They should have troubles related to it with penetrating the biological membranes and being trapped in lipids instead of dissolving in water-based media, particulary the blood. Subtle but noticeable oral activity of NBOMe-mescaline in hundreds of milligrams (discussed in the related thread) seem to prove this expectation to be right. It looks like there are no metabolic degradation processes that may rapidly destroy their molecules for us to suspect the reason of oral inactivity to be rapid inactivation by enzymes .

As for NBOMe-mescaline oral activity, it may be wieved as being like that of hashish, with it's THC also being too hydrophobic. Eating a gramm of it is usually effective, but doses for smoking are much less than one gramm.

The hydrophobicity of N-benzylated phenylethylamines cannot be accurately estimated from calculated logP (partitition coefficient). This is due to their structure making them to behave like PTCs (phase transfer catalysts) - molecules where polar ionic center like amino group in a form of ammonium salt is hidden behind bulky hydrophobic substituents surrounding it. PTCs that are actually salts are normally soluble in non-polar solvents, especially chloroorganics. And to illustrate these theoretic speculations I'll specify that NBOMe-2C-X in the salt form (as hydrochlorides) may be removed from their water solution by means of extracting it several times with chloroform. For a normal non-PTC salts this would be impossible, and water usually extracts salts from chloroorganics rather easily.

 

[Addam]

I had my first experience with this substance yesterday. I've briefly summarized the experience:
Dose was 1.1 mg administered IM in the left deltoid.
First alerts were felt within 10 minutes, beginning with a sensation in the mouth and salivation. Shadows and minor visual distortions were noticed. I usually prefer to lie down for the come-up of any psychedelic and I did so. A warm feeling started to come over me and instilled a sense of calm.
It took perhaps a half hour to reach the peak and I considered administering an additional .4mg but decided to just assess the compound at its current level. I closed my eyes and there were gentle CEVs, not very intense but pleasant none the less. I had many big thoughts and it seemed I was able to make connections between concepts easily. I seemed able to manifest visions in the mind's eye. I saw myself as an old man and saw I could be content with my life and what I've done when I've reached that point.
It was very easy on the ego at this dose. I was not incapacitated and seemed capable of having a very lucid and coherent train of thought, though I may not have been able to put it all into words as eloquently as they occurred in my head.
There was a large emphasis on feeling, music brought about strong introspection and emotion and ushered along thought processes.
After an hour and a half or so, I made the decision to add cannabinoids to see if it would intensify the visuals. It did so, but I feel that it made my thoughts jumbled and it was hard to follow their progression to completion. Next time I will abstain from cannabinoids as it seemed to take away from what the experience was offering.
Visuals were gone by the 4 hour mark but I continued to have a very active thought process. Unfortunately the cannabinoids muddled this, but the strong emphasis on feeling was still there. I was able to create interesting scenes in my head for a while after the OEVs had gone. Sleep came at about the 6 hour mark.
Overall I would characterize the experience as possessing a strong calm, there was no push or anxiety at all. It brought about a lot of thoughts, I thought it definitely fit the meaning of psychedelic, being very 'mind opening'. At the end of the night my facial muscles were a little sore from the amount of smiling that I did during the experience. I was relatively free of side-effects. A very nice substance; pleasant, warm, and very thoughtful. I can definitely see this being very blissful and serene in a higher dose that would challenge the ego.
I'll experiment with higher dosages, I expect this substance has the potential to be very rewarding.

 

[Solipsis]

Thanks for the report...

if the adrenergic effects are worrying to some, then how come often there are no side-effects described but rather a very calm feeling? I would expect adrenergic effects to feel like caffeine, correct?

So there is not even something like a benzo needed to sleep well after the effects? Hmm nice

 

[psykap]

I dont need benzo to NBOMes , Usually I dont have trouble with sleep after 5-6 h .
BTW Propranolol reduce very well adrenergic effects . I used often max 10 mg and load was very calm without negative physical effects

 

[psood0nym]

Thanks for the report...

if the adrenergic effects are worrying to some, then how come often there are no side-effects described but rather a very calm feeling? I would expect adrenergic effects to feel like caffeine, correct?

So there is not even something like a benzo needed to sleep well after the effects? Hmm nice

I thought 25C and 25D were both highly selective for 5HT2a, so I don't understand why there should be more adrenergic effects with them than other psychedelics. 5HT2a agonism causes vasoconstriction on its own, meaning all 5HT psychs cause it, at least in certain areas - they actually vasodilate in others). So for a selective 5HT2a agonist shouldn't the degree of vasoconstriction theoretically rise in constant proportion with the degree of psychedelic effects? If so, a selective agonist's vasoconstrictive effects should be less than say, a 2C-Xs, because there is evidence many 2C-Xs do have andrenergic effects IN ADDITION TO their 5HT2a agonism (in the form of reuptake inhibition and mild release). So, given some quantitative subjective intensity level of psychedelia for both a selective NBOMe and a non-selective 2C-X, say a plus 2.5 on Shulgin's scale, the vasoconstrictive effects of the NBOMe should theoretically be less, correct?

Assuming 25D is similarly selective as 25C, it seems like the worry about the vasoconstriction is justified in so far as the doses are so small it's easy to overdose overdose, but seemingly not for any theoretical implications of the properties of the chemical itself. Of course, many more reports of blood pressure readings during use would be much more helpful.

For what it's worth, I've used 25C up to 3.5 mg intramuscularly in one day (just to test the ridiculous strength of the rapid tolerance development with 25C), and never experienced any worrying symptoms of vasoconstrition or high blood pressure (granted I did not take my blood pressure). If it had vasoconstricting effects not mediated by 5HT2a, and those other mediating channels (like adrenergic ones) are in fact what the spikes in blood pressure reported above are owed to, I imagine I would have definitely had overt symptoms at such a high level (I know what to look for from mephedrone use and a few experiments with selegiline and PEA). LSD is the most vasoconstricting psych for me, and I've never gotten any of the sore-back type symptoms I get from it sometimes with 25C.

 

[MattPsy]

Blood pressure before smoking 150 micrograms NBOMe-2C-C: 125/80.
Blood pressure 30 minutes afterward: 135/85.

Nothing to worry about it would seem. IME, anyway.

 

[bluffythefluffy]

Nichols may be correct in his assessment that the NBOMes are not similar enough to "traditional" psychedelics to be considered as members of the same "family".

 

[<SpaceHead>]

Has anyone experimented with plugging any of the NBOMe's? Would dosage be similar to nasal administration?

 

[amanitadine]

^^^ Yup. works great, If anything they might be absorbed either better, or faster. Either way it seems the dose is slightly lower. This is based on only a few experiences. (so many ROAs to try, so many PEAS worthy of a N-benzyloxy group....and the +week spacing between experiments means that data is slow to come in ! )4

 

[clubberdude]

Looks very interesting, particularly if similar to DOM.

Anybody know whether this stuff is active if taken orally?

EDIT: Or sub-lingually?

 

[psykap]

If you wanna take sublingual , maxmal dose will be in approximately about 2,5 - 3 mg.

 

[<SpaceHead>]

I tried this substance for the first time today. I decided to try plugging it, it seemed like it would be an efficient ROA. But in fact it was not very effective so I added another dose sub lingual. Here's the time line and effects:

2:40 pm plugged 1.4mg 25D NBOMe

3:10 pm mild visual enhancement, colors look slightly brighter

3:55 pm Noticed a faint body high, pleasant but not very pronounced, smoked a bowl of pot to see if it would develop more but didn't.

4:10 pm Decided the plugging was not as effective as expected, the effects were pleasant but very mild, added another 2mg diluted in 4ml. water. Kept it in my mouth for the next 25 minutes or so.

5:30 pm In the last 40 minutes or so the trip has developed into a +++. The body high is very warm and relaxing, the psychological character is unique and unlike any other 2C-X chemical I have tried. In fact it seemed fairly different than any psychedelic I have tried. It had some similarities to DOM, but DOM can be very forced at times and this was much calmer and passive. I spent time playing with my cat, playing guitar and meditating. Sound did seem very enhanced, I concentrated alot on the texture and details of sounds. The visuals were fairly strong but were mostly just movements of light and not so much patterns or geometric energy. When I would close my eyes and meditate my entire closed eye visual field would just be white light. I noticed some slight muscle tension but was only present in just a few muscles. My back ached a little only in specific cases. I get this same feeling with 2C-P, but this was not as intense. I was a little sick today though so the ache may be because of that. Psychologically i felt both relaxed and free from anxiety but simultaneously in a pretty powerful and expansive state of mind.

7:40 pm effects are begining to fade

9:00 pm effects are pretty much over

I liked this one more than 25C NBOMe, 25C had more back ache/ head ache in comparison. I'm looking to try 25E NBOMe soon! These NBOMe's have been unique and pleasant so far.

 

[phuturedellic]

maybe it's just me but 2c-x's and for that matter all RC pea's feel like poison. I've bought from several vendors, all with good reputations, that I can source, and each time without fail I feel like I am on some god damn generative internet drug that isn't worth the energy I spent to keystroke the google search. I took 800 mg and I have 2400 more I am probably going to flush. I bought this because I read things that made it seem, that maybe, oh just maybe, this lil fucker might be different. I don't get it RC tryptamines have been pretty awesome. 4-aco-dmt is the bee's knees, but I guess I just hate this variety of psychedelics. Kinda doesn't surprise me that kid in Blaine OD'ed like he did. These drugs feel like fucking rat poison, and the visuals are nothing to take home about. I mean where is the fucking pro-lad already!? Top notch RC's.... methoxetamine....4-aco-dmt....5-Methyl-MDA,..... and the rest of the noise....shit enjoy feeling like a lab rat, I sure don't. And from what I've read about DOM, the one drug I still dream about....this better be no where close, because that would be heartbreaking. And by the way I am well versed in all the classics. Hundreds of trips on the real ones. It's just scoring shit on the web, with my master card, has a certain burnt appeal, but in reality, doesn't cut the mustard. C'mon chemist don't put out any more bullshit. Make a decent mescaline analogue while we still have the freedom!

I should have spent that money on K.......or MDMA...or LSD.....or shrooms....scower the web people the hook ups are out there, let's collectively quit fucking with this bullshit and give some legit vendors a chance. I won't tell you where to get shit, but it's the digital age, and if you aren't retarded you'll find it

ok you know what fuck it I am gonna drop 1.6 mg's right now just since I know it won't really kill me and to put my feelings to rest. I'll write back after I have listened to all of Chrystal Castles II and see if anything was worthwhile. I doubt it will be, but for fairness sake, let's give this reject drug, in a sea of reject drugs, one more shot. Ok go!

ok actualy bit a bit into the third one making this more like 2.0 mg's so I'll get back in a bit

sublingual btw

ok it's starting, typical pea weird stimulation in body parts that I don't usually register exist. NO VISUALS WORTH A FUCK....just thought I'd emphasize, if you can't get real drugs don't do them. This will be the last of this bullshit for me, and maybe everything RC PEA related should go into harm reduction, just a thought.

 

[slownerveaction]

ok it's starting, typical pea weird stimulation in body parts that I don't usually register exist. NO VISUALS WORTH A FUCK....just thought I'd emphasize, if you can't get real drugs don't do them. This will be the last of this bullshit for me, and maybe everything RC PEA related should go into harm reduction, just a thought.

How can you expect to get anything positive out of a psychedelic experience when you go into it with such a negative set?

(Sorry if this is too O.T.)