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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids The Big and Dandy Fentanyl Analogues Thread - Acetylfentanyl / Butyrfentanyl
- Thread starter sekio
- Start date
People cut dope with fent analogoes all the time, it doesnt block it it synergizes. I've shot actylfent + heroin multiple times.
gentandscholar
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2013
- Messages
- 3
This is something that I have long wondered about... But is some degree of opiate tolerance permanant?
I was young when I first tried an opiate. It was hydrocodone and I was in 6th or 7th grade or something like that. Back then and early in high school I would get hydrocodone, tylenol 3's, and fioricet with codeine and they used to get me very high for hours on end. Now that I'm in my mid-20s and have been a full blown opiate addict for about ten years and after graduating from popping pills to smoking and then later shooting heroin, I can barely feel any effect from anything weaker than 20 mg or so of oxycodone after months of abstinence.
Granted, I wasnt 6'3" and 230 lbs when I was 12 so obviously 10 or 15 mg of hydrocodone seemed to be a lot more back then but even at 18 hydrocodone still held magic. Now when I take it I just feel dissatisfied and mildly itchy. This has even led to issues at the hospital where, after months of sobriety, I received morphine and Dilaudid and the doses they always insisted on giving me we complete and total bullshit.
Anyway, enough rambling about that.
On another note, the 25 mg sample of fentanyl was received a couple of weeks ago and consumed completely in 24 hours. I was shocked to say the least and extremely fucked up. I couldn't believe that I was able to consume so much in a day. Granted, I do take 16 mg of bupe (suboxone) daily, so I do have a tolerance, and I did abstain for a day before taking the fent. I made a solution with distilled water in a clean bottle and initially sampled a 100 mcg shot which did little to nothing more than provide a small rush. The effects of every IV were quite short lived and I was IVing anywhere between 300-600 mcg per administration and I was dosing a couple of times per hour.
It was quite enjoyable but it gave me an extreme opiate hangover the next day (extreme lethargy, grogginess, headache) as well as a pretty bad histamine reaction. Apart from scratching my nose and balls raw, I was also beet red and had severely puffy lower eyelids. I'm guessing that was just from overdoing it.
I tried to be as safe as possible when doing it and when doing a large shit I would dode half and wait about 30 seconds and do the rest either in smaller increments it right away if it wasn't too big.
I can't believe that I have never overdosed after all of these years... I've never even fallen out...
Anyway, that was my 2¢. Hope all is well for everyone.
I was young when I first tried an opiate. It was hydrocodone and I was in 6th or 7th grade or something like that. Back then and early in high school I would get hydrocodone, tylenol 3's, and fioricet with codeine and they used to get me very high for hours on end. Now that I'm in my mid-20s and have been a full blown opiate addict for about ten years and after graduating from popping pills to smoking and then later shooting heroin, I can barely feel any effect from anything weaker than 20 mg or so of oxycodone after months of abstinence.
Granted, I wasnt 6'3" and 230 lbs when I was 12 so obviously 10 or 15 mg of hydrocodone seemed to be a lot more back then but even at 18 hydrocodone still held magic. Now when I take it I just feel dissatisfied and mildly itchy. This has even led to issues at the hospital where, after months of sobriety, I received morphine and Dilaudid and the doses they always insisted on giving me we complete and total bullshit.
Anyway, enough rambling about that.
On another note, the 25 mg sample of fentanyl was received a couple of weeks ago and consumed completely in 24 hours. I was shocked to say the least and extremely fucked up. I couldn't believe that I was able to consume so much in a day. Granted, I do take 16 mg of bupe (suboxone) daily, so I do have a tolerance, and I did abstain for a day before taking the fent. I made a solution with distilled water in a clean bottle and initially sampled a 100 mcg shot which did little to nothing more than provide a small rush. The effects of every IV were quite short lived and I was IVing anywhere between 300-600 mcg per administration and I was dosing a couple of times per hour.
It was quite enjoyable but it gave me an extreme opiate hangover the next day (extreme lethargy, grogginess, headache) as well as a pretty bad histamine reaction. Apart from scratching my nose and balls raw, I was also beet red and had severely puffy lower eyelids. I'm guessing that was just from overdoing it.
I tried to be as safe as possible when doing it and when doing a large shit I would dode half and wait about 30 seconds and do the rest either in smaller increments it right away if it wasn't too big.
I can't believe that I have never overdosed after all of these years... I've never even fallen out...
Anyway, that was my 2¢. Hope all is well for everyone.
On a quantitative level it isn't, at least not in my experience, but I've never used IV opiates for extended periods of time. On a qualitative level, you will most definitely experience an irreversible tolerance. That's why if you are going down this road it is advisable to start with weak mu agonists and slowly work your way upwards (or should I say downwards). Once you have acquired a serious Heroin habit, chances are you won't get much out of most prescription opioids with a few exceptions (e.g. oxymorphone). This is exactly how pain management works. You start with weak agonists (Tramdol or Tilidine) and eventually end with a prescription for top of the line opioids. With illicit use you can additionally incrememnt roa's by speed of onset and peak plasma acitivity associated with them. This varies from opiate to opiate. I personally call this process hitting your breaks. If you are aware of the misery opiate abuse can end in and don't feel inclined to stop, you are best off trying to progress as slowly as possible in what usually turns out to be a long downward spiral.
If tolerance is a major issue, I think people are using NMDA antagonists, e.g. Acetylcysteine, Magnesium, Dextromethorphan (all OTC), Memantine, subdissociative Ketamine doses (both prescription) or even PCP, MXE and other illicit glutamatergic dissociatives. Micro dose naltrexone along with your opiates is also supposed to help decrease tolerance or at least prevent tolerance from increasing.
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Cognitive_Shift
Greenlighter
How does this compare to Heroin, Oxycodone ect ect? Is this an actual substitute for a dope habit?
Sprout
Bluelight Crew
This thread continues to intrigue me, Fentanyl Citrate when used in an "IR" format is completely unsustainable. Another morning lay in bed, feeling the Fentanyl leaving my system, RLS beginning just 3 hours after my last dose. Am I correct in thinking the Butyr analogue has a much longer HL?
I had posted this elsewhere, not realizing there was a whole mega thread dedicated to this subject, so I'm gpoing to post my story/question here as it's definitely suited for this thread.
This is quite unfortunate, unwelcome, and also extremely surprising.
For several years my tolerance and response to opioids has remained constant, albeit at a very high level.
10mg IV oxymorphone provides a strong but not overwhelming rush and pleasant afterglow for several hours, occasionally 15mg is used and while it doesn't feel even close to OD territory, it's a bit more than what I'm looking for. So as I said, for over 2 years daily this has provided strong but manageable effects.....and then...
Someone decided to get acquainted with butyr fent for a mere 4 days. During this time, the usual opana doses were skipped as the BF was played with about every hour for these 4 days (BF has incredibly short duration when vaped or IV).
After this little 4 day excursions, the usual regimen was resumed...and I was astonished. I accepted that some transient increase in tolerance may result from this experimentation but Never in a million years would I have predicted THIS:
I don't like hyperbole or exaggeration so when I say that 30mg of IV oxymorphone did not produce ANY perceivable effect, I literally mean that it was as though I had shot distilled water. I actually frantically examined the syringe looking for a hole which would have allowed the 30mg to shoot out of the side and not have made it into my system. Something that absurd seemed far more likely than the alternative, that a mere 4 days of messing with BF had such a profound impact on tolerance that 30mg IV Opana (triple the amount that had provided strong, consistent effects for years) has now become imperceivable. And I cannot stress enough that this is not an exaggeration, 30mg IV opana provided ZERO response (for those that may not be familiar with opana and it's incredible potency when taken IV, it is equivalent to 600mg oxycodone or 900mg of oral morphine).
How is this possible???? Again, I had been warned that fent and it's analogs can cause fairly dramatic increases in tolerance, but come on...4 days and suddenly 30mg IV Opana had become Tylenol, when prior to this, 10mg provided a good strong experience for years.
I have since tried a 30mg IV dose 2 More times, but to no avail.
So, is this as unusual as I seem to think it is, or should I have expected that a mere 4 days of switching over to BF would produce such a profound increase in tolerance.
And more importantly, is this likely a permanent effect or is it reasonable to expect that over the next few days or weeks, assuming I resume to my typical regimen of opana, my tolerance will return to something at least resembling what it was before?
Of course I'm aware that my best bet at getting my tolerance back down is to abstain from all opioids for some time, but suffice to say that is not an option right now.
I'd love to hear anyone who has had experience w a short course of BF, and if they experienced the same shocking raise in tolerance, and if so, was this a permanent change?
Thqnks
This is quite unfortunate, unwelcome, and also extremely surprising.
For several years my tolerance and response to opioids has remained constant, albeit at a very high level.
10mg IV oxymorphone provides a strong but not overwhelming rush and pleasant afterglow for several hours, occasionally 15mg is used and while it doesn't feel even close to OD territory, it's a bit more than what I'm looking for. So as I said, for over 2 years daily this has provided strong but manageable effects.....and then...
Someone decided to get acquainted with butyr fent for a mere 4 days. During this time, the usual opana doses were skipped as the BF was played with about every hour for these 4 days (BF has incredibly short duration when vaped or IV).
After this little 4 day excursions, the usual regimen was resumed...and I was astonished. I accepted that some transient increase in tolerance may result from this experimentation but Never in a million years would I have predicted THIS:
I don't like hyperbole or exaggeration so when I say that 30mg of IV oxymorphone did not produce ANY perceivable effect, I literally mean that it was as though I had shot distilled water. I actually frantically examined the syringe looking for a hole which would have allowed the 30mg to shoot out of the side and not have made it into my system. Something that absurd seemed far more likely than the alternative, that a mere 4 days of messing with BF had such a profound impact on tolerance that 30mg IV Opana (triple the amount that had provided strong, consistent effects for years) has now become imperceivable. And I cannot stress enough that this is not an exaggeration, 30mg IV opana provided ZERO response (for those that may not be familiar with opana and it's incredible potency when taken IV, it is equivalent to 600mg oxycodone or 900mg of oral morphine).
How is this possible???? Again, I had been warned that fent and it's analogs can cause fairly dramatic increases in tolerance, but come on...4 days and suddenly 30mg IV Opana had become Tylenol, when prior to this, 10mg provided a good strong experience for years.
I have since tried a 30mg IV dose 2 More times, but to no avail.
So, is this as unusual as I seem to think it is, or should I have expected that a mere 4 days of switching over to BF would produce such a profound increase in tolerance.
And more importantly, is this likely a permanent effect or is it reasonable to expect that over the next few days or weeks, assuming I resume to my typical regimen of opana, my tolerance will return to something at least resembling what it was before?
Of course I'm aware that my best bet at getting my tolerance back down is to abstain from all opioids for some time, but suffice to say that is not an option right now.
I'd love to hear anyone who has had experience w a short course of BF, and if they experienced the same shocking raise in tolerance, and if so, was this a permanent change?
Thqnks
slackjack22
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2006
- Messages
- 6
No, I'd say it's shorter than regular fent actually (but similar). The only fent analogue that I have tried that lasts longer than 1-3 hours is parafluorofentanyl, which is pretty rare and I haven't seen around in a while.
Tolerance - my most recent experience with b-f - I did it for about 7-8 days pretty constantly and then switched back to buprenorphine. When I stopped the b-f I did start on a higher dose of bupe than I had been on previously but got back to lower than my previous normal dose within about 4-5 days. I will say that it took me several days to feel "baseline," even on the bupe, which I might guess is because of fent's extreme binding affinity (higher than bupe). I would't say I was in w/d but I wasn't completely normal still. Did you ramp up your dose with the b-f from the starting point a lot? I did manage to stay at pretty much the same dose on the 8th day as on the 1st day, so that was probably good for my tolerance.
If it's been less than a day or two, I'd think it's totally possible that there's still a fair amount of residual b-f built up into your system (even if you are feeling w/d effects) that is blocking other opiates (even oxymorphone). I'd guess within 4-7 days your tolerance/opiate response will be back to normal as long as you can avoid stuffing your entire opana prescription into your body in that time (a waste). Maybe eat a lot of gabapentin/lyrica/benzos if you're feeling poorly.
Spideronthewall
Bluelighter
I only skimmed through all the replies here. But my quick 2 cents...
Acetyl Fentanyl. .. I have extensive first hand experience. When I first acquired I would shoot literally a speck of powder probably equivalent to just under half a point (that was with a 4 oxy80 to get high a day tolerance) for my friends I would cut it 2 parts lactose to 1 part fent since first friend to try ODed off 1 and a half points after warning not to do that much. It has an insanely short half - life. So short that I'd find myself poking myself 6 times an hour to stay high. 3 or 4 times an hour to at least ward off sickness. I would wake up constantly throughout the night to hit myself so I could sleep. It's a monster for sure.
Acetyl Fentanyl. .. I have extensive first hand experience. When I first acquired I would shoot literally a speck of powder probably equivalent to just under half a point (that was with a 4 oxy80 to get high a day tolerance) for my friends I would cut it 2 parts lactose to 1 part fent since first friend to try ODed off 1 and a half points after warning not to do that much. It has an insanely short half - life. So short that I'd find myself poking myself 6 times an hour to stay high. 3 or 4 times an hour to at least ward off sickness. I would wake up constantly throughout the night to hit myself so I could sleep. It's a monster for sure.
Permanent Jones
Bluelighter
Oh boy, Romealone...
I have had a very similar experience. I spent about a week doing acetyl fentanyl (insufflated). I eased off of it by tapering and using lope. About two weeks later, my script for oxymorphone was refilled-finally. I thought yay!!! Time to snort 4 15 mg er's, as usual, to get a nice, solid 6-8 hour buzz. Guess what? No effect at all. I too, thought there was some mistake. Maybe counterfeit meds? Nope. I did 4 more pills and still nada. My tolerance was just jacked, that's all. And it still is. Looks like it's permanent for me. Hope you have better luck.
I have had a very similar experience. I spent about a week doing acetyl fentanyl (insufflated). I eased off of it by tapering and using lope. About two weeks later, my script for oxymorphone was refilled-finally. I thought yay!!! Time to snort 4 15 mg er's, as usual, to get a nice, solid 6-8 hour buzz. Guess what? No effect at all. I too, thought there was some mistake. Maybe counterfeit meds? Nope. I did 4 more pills and still nada. My tolerance was just jacked, that's all. And it still is. Looks like it's permanent for me. Hope you have better luck.
whitegreen
Bluelighter
Been reading some in the thread and this one really seem potent as h***. But I got 5 tabs 5mg each as a sample from a vendor and I am interested. I am very sensitive to opiates, for example, I took 500mg Tramadol in the evening and my friend took 850mg (!!! I know right). I was lying in his couch nodding the shit out starting to feel like I was being a bad company since he got extreme energy, he started scrubbing his shower form dirt (what the hell, sounds like something someone on speed would do). Although he takes 36mg Concerta depot a day, could that have had something to do with it?
Anyways, I know combining stimulants and downers like opiates/opioids is bad due to the stimulant might make you not realize that you are affected of the opiate and thus takes more and result in an OD. With this knowledge I have no intentions on ODing on this. And I was thinking of sharing these 5 tabs with this friend I mentioned, giving him 3 of them and taking 2 myself. I have taken 130mg 3-FPM orally two hours ago and feel more energetic, speedy and more social. I also did the stuff I spilled up my nose, couldn't have been more than 10-20mg. For the record I am an experience 3-FPM user.
Would you think it a huge waste taking 2 tabs while on 3-FPM (upper stim) or would it just make me more "comfortable". And then giving rest of the 3 tabs to my friend?
Or are there other bad interactions I am not aware of except for the one that I mentioned? Also these are both RC's so of course we can't know anything for sure, but this dose of 3-FPM and only 10mg Acetylfentanyl shouldn't put me in any immediate danger am I right?
Thanks in advance!
Anyways, I know combining stimulants and downers like opiates/opioids is bad due to the stimulant might make you not realize that you are affected of the opiate and thus takes more and result in an OD. With this knowledge I have no intentions on ODing on this. And I was thinking of sharing these 5 tabs with this friend I mentioned, giving him 3 of them and taking 2 myself. I have taken 130mg 3-FPM orally two hours ago and feel more energetic, speedy and more social. I also did the stuff I spilled up my nose, couldn't have been more than 10-20mg. For the record I am an experience 3-FPM user.
Would you think it a huge waste taking 2 tabs while on 3-FPM (upper stim) or would it just make me more "comfortable". And then giving rest of the 3 tabs to my friend?
Or are there other bad interactions I am not aware of except for the one that I mentioned? Also these are both RC's so of course we can't know anything for sure, but this dose of 3-FPM and only 10mg Acetylfentanyl shouldn't put me in any immediate danger am I right?
Thanks in advance!
crunkazcanbe
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 26, 2012
- Messages
- 258
WTF ?? You will be dead soon if you keep taking that much trem ,and mixing it with stims ... You must have a death wish ???
A single 5mg tab is too high a dose fr an opiate naive person. Put half or better 1/4th a tab under your tongue and if you dont feel enough you can dose more.
You can always ingest more if you arent high enough
whitegreen
Bluelighter
No no man, you completely misunderstood me. I have never mixed opiates with stimulants. I only mentioned that that evening I took ONLY 500mg Tramadol and was completely out of it (I have taken higher doses before but with tolerance), this time I had 0 tolerance.
My friend on the other hand who took 850mg that evening had also taken 36mg Concerta DEPOT in the morning and this was in the evening.
So don't worry please, I am not so stupid as to mix stuff I have no clue about =) But thanks for your concern.
My friend is saying that everytime he takes Tramadol with no tolerance he needs at least 700mg to feel good. While me personally only need 300-400mg. I have another friend who also needs LOADS of it to feel comfortable. We are all different
Are you sure about this man? :S Me and my friend have been reading on other forums that 4-6mg is a medium dose. But I will take your advice partially, I will half one of the pills and start with 2.5mg under the tongue.
---
But I wanted to know if there are more dangers included in combining upper stimulants than the stimulant taking away the opiate effect and risking you to take more (this I won't do).
For example; 3-FPM for me, and Methylphenidate for my friend. I would like to point out that the Methylphenidate he takes is a prescription medicine and he doesn't take 3-FPM AT ALL but me personsally have taken a little bit today.
Would it be considered relatively safe to mix 3-FPM, a moderate amount alcohol and a small amount of Acetylfentanyl (maybe 2,5mg) for me, and Methylphenidate (depot from this morning), a moderate amount alcohol and Acetylfentanyl (2.5mg) for my friend?
I am very aware there are always dangers included in the interaction of different kinds of drugs like this but maybe someone has personal experience from similar situations. Please, I mean no disrespect.
Thanks in advance and don't worry, we will take your advice with huge respect and really consider this one. Otherwise it is no big deal AT ALL that we wait until another day to try the Acetylfentanyl, after all, we prefer to continue our lives over a potential life-threating situation. We are no Neanderthals with basically no intelligence
But ASKING is safer than just putting everything in our mouths don't you agree?
Also we will take allergy tests also. Just breaking of a small, small bit, put under the tongue and wait a while. This I always do with stuff I have never tested before and is something everyone should do for their own personal safety and not just completely trust any vendor/shop.
Thanks for taking your time to read and thanks in advance!
crunkazcanbe
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 26, 2012
- Messages
- 258
No no man, you completely misunderstood me. I have never mixed opiates with stimulants. I only mentioned that that evening I took ONLY 500mg Tramadol and was completely out of it (I have taken higher doses before but with tolerance), this time I had 0 tolerance.
My friend on the other hand who took 850mg that evening had also taken 36mg Concerta DEPOT in the morning and this was in the evening.
So don't worry please, I am not so stupid as to mix stuff I have no clue about =) But thanks for your concern.
My friend is saying that everytime he takes Tramadol with no tolerance he needs at least 700mg to feel good. While me personally only need 300-400mg. I have another friend who also needs LOADS of it to feel comfortable. We are all different
Oh I was just saying WTF for the fact that tremadol over 400mg in a day can cause seizures ,and then on top of it a stimulate added .
I have a 540mg a day habit of Oxycodone ,and 450mg of Trem gives me a small stoned type buzz still .
whitegreen
Bluelighter
Indeed, the health care (at least in my country) recommends that no one ever takes more than 400mg per day, due to seizures. I have been with people who have gotten seizures so I usually am a bit careful. So yeah you might be right that 500mg at once might have been too much but after this many years I know my body pretty well.
I don't know why to be honest but that evening I took 500mg while I normally NEVER go above 300mg at once since 300mg is more than enough for me. And like I said, I didn't mix it with any stimulants.
But my friend who takes Methylphenidate for his diagnos took 850mg that evening and he started cleaning his bathroom and stuff, like he was on speed or something. That was really weird. This was the first time I experienced something like that but he just told me that he have seen it happen to others as well.
Personally I only get energetic on doses on 200mg or less. More than that I just become relaxed.
But please, back to my question
I wanted to know if there are more dangers included in combining upper stimulants than the stimulant taking away the opiate effect and risking you to take more (this I won't do).
For example; 3-FPM for me, and Methylphenidate for my friend. I would like to point out that the Methylphenidate he takes is a prescription medicine and he doesn't take 3-FPM AT ALL but me personsally have taken a little bit today.
Would it be considered relatively safe to mix 3-FPM, a moderate amount alcohol and a small amount of Acetylfentanyl (maybe 2,5mg) for me, and Methylphenidate (depot from this morning), a moderate amount alcohol and Acetylfentanyl (2.5mg) for my friend?
I am very aware there are always dangers included in the interaction of different kinds of drugs like this but maybe someone has personal experience from similar situations. Please, I mean no disrespect.
Thanks in advance and don't worry, we will take your advice with huge respect and really consider this one. Otherwise it is no big deal AT ALL that we wait until another day to try the Acetylfentanyl, after all, we prefer to continue our lives over a potential life-threating situation. We are no Neanderthals with basically no intelligence
But ASKING is safer than just putting everything in our mouths don't you agree?
Also we will take allergy tests also. Just breaking of a small, small bit, put under the tongue and wait a while. This I always do with stuff I have never tested before and is something everyone should do for their own personal safety and not just completely trust any vendor/shop.
Thanks for taking your time to read and thanks in advance!
Love to all who tries to help out
sekio
Bluelight Crew
no. generally by the time you're mixing 2 depressants and a stimulant or two you are inviting a lot of risk.
of course it is dose dependent, but it seems self evident to not combine depressants & avoid mixing depressants and stimulants together.
whitegreen
Bluelighter
Alright man, thanks for your reply. We will wait until earliest tomorrow evening before trying an allergy test on the acetylfentanyl. Will report back in a few days how it went =)
Might be we take it in a few days instead and not tomorrow, or even next week. We are curious but not that curious
Thanks man! Lots of love