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The Big and Dandy 4-HO-DMT Thread

The pure compound will probable kick in quicker than the already fast mushroom counterparts. IME MDMA takes significantly longer to fully peak compared to mushrooms, even when in pure form.

I'd take the MDMA a half hour before the 4-ho-dmt.
 
At the onset of my 14 mg experience, I felt so wonderful I wanted to scream out of sheer pleasure. The experience of 4-ho-dmt was plenty ecstatic itself.
 
Not for me. It takes me a good 1 1/2 hr to 2 hr to peak on mushrooms. The MDMA peak for me occurs around 1 to 1 1/2 hours.

Dondante...awesome. Can't wait to see for myself. Was 14mg enough for a +3?

kong said:
The pure compound will probable kick in quicker than the already fast mushroom counterparts. IME MDMA takes significantly longer to fully peak compared to mushrooms, even when in pure form.

I'd take the MDMA a half hour before the 4-ho-dmt.
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Dondante said:
At the onset of my 14 mg experience, I felt so wonderful I wanted to scream out of sheer pleasure. The experience of 4-ho-dmt was plenty ecstatic itself.
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Yeah, seriously. I remember how I felt on my last M1 experience, it was about like that at times. Also, I was doing that tripping empathy weirdness thing with your friend that sometimes a person does. I was listening to him while he was talking and like scooting up to him with my head tilted so engrossed in what he was saying with a big smile on my face. I must have looked a bit odd to him! He looked lovely to me! Everything looked very very lovely!

I say skip the MDMA!
 
14 mg was borderline ++/+++. I supplemented with 30 mg IM MET and 10 mg ketamine. The other two had taken 10 mg and 14 mg and both were at a similar level ... not quite engrossing. They supplemented with 7 mg at just over 2 hrs in. That provided a strong +++. I would start no higher than 18 mg.
 
dondante out of curiousity, how did ya'll take it? We took it sublingually and it hit fast that way.
 
^^Gel caps for first dose. Dissolved in juice for 2nd.

How fast did it hit? I can't imagine that psilocin gets absorbed sublingually. It might be fundal absorption if onset is less than 20 min.
 
Definitely, 15-20 mins I was getting color saturation and depth changes and light patterns (I can't explain these, they are like crystal clear patterns covering everything) and generally got very quiet staring at the river thinking nothing. By 25-30 mins I was having full blown open eye visuals (patterns, geometric figures, trails, etc). Curiously, by the time I started getting full blown patterns I then almost threw up. It was such a fast ride up....way way faster than mushrooms, even when I've chewed them up very finely.

Why would you doubt psilocin can be absorbed sublingually?
 
I suppose it could be, but 10-20 mg is a lot to absorb under your tongue. I'd guess that you'd end up swallowing a good bit regardless. Now that I think about it though, I don't see why it wouldn't work to some degree. There's not as much surface area as with rectal, but it's still a mucous membrane. Also, the rectum may have more active absorption.
 
samadhi_smiles said:
Definitely, 15-20 mins I was getting color saturation and depth changes and light patterns (I can't explain these, they are like crystal clear patterns covering everything) and generally got very quiet staring at the river thinking nothing. By 25-30 mins I was having full blown open eye visuals (patterns, geometric figures, trails, etc). Curiously, by the time I started getting full blown patterns I then almost threw up. It was such a fast ride up....way way faster than mushrooms, even when I've chewed them up very finely.

Why would you doubt psilocin can be absorbed sublingually?
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This is almost the exact same onset profile for me orally, though for me it was a little quicker (dissolved in juice). No opinion about sublingual absorbtion, just stating it for the record. Also, even orally psilocin doesn't last much longer than 3 hours for me at a ++ dose, even though mushrooms often do. For me the insufflated route is about 50% more potent and has about a 25% faster onset compared to oral. IM is nearly 100% more potent but is only a little faster than the insufflated route in onset time. Both of these latter routes are more stimulating and shorter acting. I think most people will prefer oral, but I enjoyed the more stimulating nature of IM in conjunction with ketamine. It made it really exhilarating.
 
^^Dondante and psoodonym, Did you guys notice many headspace differences between the 4-ho-dmt and regular shrooms, like clarity or thought trains? Also have you guys tried 4-aco-dmt and if you have what kind of differences did you notice between 4-aco and 4-ho?
 
It's difficult to say. I tried 4-AcO-DMT over 6 months ago, and mushrooms almost 2 years ago. Also, I did not smoke pot this time. For me, THC has a profound effect on a trip.

Taking that into account, I'd generalize by saying that 4-ho-dmt is more manic, particularly the onset. It was extremely pleasurable. Oddly enough, neither reminded me too much of mushrooms. This could be due to faded memories, set and setting, or amount of THC among other things.

Also, my one 4-aco-dmt experience was with a fairly high dose, 34 mg ... so there's another factor. Overall, 4-ho-dmt and 4-aco-dmt weren't radically different. I'd be suspicious of anyone that claimed that they were.
 
Comparison: Psilocin, Mushrooms, and 4-AcO-DMT

I’ve had mushrooms more recently and have used 4-AcO-DMT many times; I think I can make a fair personal comparison. All of the following distinctions are subtle and confounded by different sets, settings, etc.

Psilocin is more stimulating and feels “cleaner” than the mushrooms I’ve had. Its onset has a harder edge that I believe is due primarily to the lack of psilocybin and secondarily to the absence of the encasing mushroom flesh (see samadhi smiles' comment about ground up mushrooms above). This can probably be remedied by simply drinking it dissolved in juice in regular portions and intervals over a half hour, though others and myself have noted a general diminishing affect on the depth of resulting experiences when powerful tryptamine doses are staggered. All other negative symptoms associated with mushrooms are lessened. Isolated 4-ho-DMT has the added assurance of having been tested as safe. Not that I seriously doubt the safety of the chemical cocktail that is mushrooms.

The body high is less pronounced than with mushrooms unless I use it in conjunction with 4-ho-NMT. When I do this it gives me giddy, almost tickling, compulsions to tense up the muscles in my neck, roll my shoulders, and shake my arms and legs, though all of this is controllable and is only significantly expressed when I walk. Everybody else I know who’s used 4-ho-NMT says it’s completely inactive. I still get the symptoms when it’s combined with psilocin and still like it, placebo or not.

While 4-ho-DMT seems more manic than mushrooms--just as chaotic but less cloudy or confusing--or 4-AcO-DMT, I find 4-AcO-DMT to be slightly smoother, significantly more euphoric, and longer lasting. In my fairly limited experience, 4-ho-DMT has been more empathic than 4-AcO-DMT, but I find that the 4-AcO-DMT is just as, if not more, introspectively and spiritually powerful, and is, not coincidentally, easier to direct; that makes it a superior tool for me. I think I’ll be in the minority in gauging 4-AcO-DMT higher than 4-ho-DMT, but not in gauging 4-ho-DMT higher than mushrooms. Still, I love them all.
 
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psoodonym, have you tried a higher dose of 4-HO-NMT or with alternate methods? I was going to try a 20mg dose, orally and then perhaps a 35-50mg dose. And then try some IM or insufflated doses.

I won't bother with MAOIs since I dislike what the ones I've tried do to my body.
 
I'd try insufflation. That way you can have immediate results ... saves playing the waiting game of oral admin. Maybe try rapidly escalating doses of 20 mg, 40 mg, etc. about 30 min apart if you really want to test its activity. Obviously, slow down if you get something at 20 mg. Then have 4-ho-dmt on hand in case you're disappointed.

BTW, the ID of 4-ho-nmt has been confirmed by NMR.
 
OK, maybe we'll try insufflating some at Harry Potter tonight. What dose for insufflation should we start with - maybe like 8mg or something.
 
the rapidly escalating doses (you were talking about oral right). Is this to keep MAO 'occupied' competetively - sorry my q mark key is broken :\
 
samadhi_smiles said:
psoodonym, have you tried a higher dose of 4-HO-NMT or with alternate methods? I was going to try a 20mg dose, orally and then perhaps a 35-50mg dose. And then try some IM or insufflated doses.

I won't bother with MAOIs since I dislike what the ones I've tried do to my body.
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I've used 10mg orally and felt nothing. I followed that by 5mg insufflated and thought I felt a "generic tryptamine buzz". In any case, at these levels and alone, I did not find the chem substantial, but did feel something. Another time I IM'd 5mg after consuming 4-ho-DMT and experienced a resurgence of the idiomotor movements I experienced in my first combination trip, which were not present beforehand with 4-ho-DMT alone. Though he reported no activity during his 10 mg IM dose, during Dondante's 4mg IV dose he experienced a "wave of muscle tightness", which, if not due to simple anxiety, lends some credence to the idea that the muscular effects I experienced on it in conjunction with 4-ho-DMT were not purely placebo effects. In any case I don't think 4-ho-NMT on its own will amount to anything worthwhile at any level, but here's to you proving me wrong with rapidly escalating doses! Meanwhile I'll keep my doses of it low so I can conserve my limited quantity for its fun and fascinating (placebo?) effects on my 4-ho-DMT trips.

Also, I'm pretty sure Dondante was talking about insufflated doses, which should factor out most MAO issues that might be involved in the compound's activity level/inactivity.
 
O.K I have this stuff, and I would like to say that snorting it is very nice! Very little burn and you feel it in 10 min. You start with a nice body almost x type high then about 20 min into it the visuals start. I use a bullet like people use for coke and get close to equal doses each time. I would also like to state that it goes very well with AMT also. I have mixed it with 4-aco-dmt which added a whole new visual aspect to the trip. We have even mixed it with 4-aco-dmt, AMT, and morphine, and weed and still had great experiences. What I really want to know is if anyone has tried to smoke 4-ho-dmt yet? I know you can smoke shrooms but they taste like burnt french fries. How would you go about smoking pure psilocin, how much would you need, and do you need to prepare it in any certain way? Thanks.... -Peace
 
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